Would you have liked more episodes dedicated to Picard's Borg recovery?

[carcinoGeneticist]

I haven't seen Family yet so in no postition to judge, however I am of the opinion that it was a good chocie to have a follow up episode considering that Star Trek is often not the type to do follow-up episodes, as well as the fact that the whole Locutus fiasco becomes a part of Picard, even if it isn't brought up much. We see it in I, Borg and we see it in First Contact and we also get a whole episode to view him recovering. I'll have to return to this after I watch Family to see if I am still of this opinion.

 

[DonIago]

Arguably one of PIC's biggest failings was that both Picard himself and TPTB were still grappling with this well past the point when the viewers were no longer as invested.

 

[FederationHistorian]

“Family” already addressed the immediate aftermath. Aside from having an immediate followup after Satie's comments in "The Drumhead", it's not really necessary.

But it could have worked as either a season 6 episode after “Chain of Command” or season 7 episode immediately after “Descent, pt II”, after Picard’s experience with Hugh and the rogue Borg, and nearly engaging in genocide against the Borg, to be counseled by Troi and examine his continuing psychological struggle. It would also allow Picard to contrast his lack of trauma from being interrogated by the Cardassians.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

realistically, the type of trauma he endured would take years to recover from.

Gene’s Vision.

In the future, children don’t cry when their parents die. Adults don’t have arguments. Borg victims… they just get over it.

 

[Qonundrum]

IMHO the more time you spend focusing on it, the less sense it wound make that he should ever be returned to command duty at all, or that Starfleet would trust him there ever again, & realistically, the type of trauma he endured would take years to recover from. No one was gonna want that bogging down the show.

True. Would humans really evolve to that level in 400 years?

But there'd be no show as such, unless Picard were to take a desk job and now it's the "Riker/Shelby" show. Or, better yet, "Riker/Barclay" since "Riker/Bedbuddyoftheweek" never helped other shows in the past so why would it again?

Plus, "Drumhead" and "I, Borg" address the "concern" issue, and even "Descent" had shown Picard leading a taskforce as Starfleet believed he was doing well enough, and nothing suggests a backwards step between that episode and (the 1996 flick that almost feels tacked on despite taking place at the start of the movie as it feels like it's making even less sense during the entire battle). Or maybe Starfleet had. Even then, Picard could have phoned up the fleet and say "Hiya. Save the asparagus and toffee soufflé, just have everyone focus your phasers to this coordinate, even though Borg ships are so perfectly distributed that 80% of it could be damaged and still operate just as effectively" and not be listened to as quickly despite the Fleet being told that Picard wouldn't be there, probably...

We did get a follow-up episode (which is more than Star Trek was historically known to give) with a nondescript amount of recovery time, & periodically it did resurface in other stories (which was how they preferred to have their recurring plot points play out anyhow)

I'm content with the way it played out, especially when you consider they'd kind of been written into a corner by Piller. More would've made more of a mess imho

BOBW pt 1 definitely had the biggest corner to get out of. Pt 2 does an amazing job, to the point I like it more than pt 1 (despite the Mars perimeter being wimpy, but most of the ships went to Wolf 359 so it works)

 

[Nerys Myk]

I find the one to be sufficient

 

[Frontis]

Because of too much Borg stuff in the last 2 seasons I Iost interest in Voyager.
So I'm glad TNG kept it minimal.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

^^this

On one hand, exploring the aftermath wasn't a bad idea and it allows the audience to get a little more of Picard's POV as Locutus, since he remembered all of what he saw (while having zero control, which is suitably creepy.)

On the other hand, there's virtually no story but a ton of characters you'd otherwise find in a talk show.

Not to mention, the next seven or so stories are cookie cutter stuff where a crewmember is abducted or has something ripped away and they need to get it back because it's exciting space exploration. Such as:


* Dr Crusher - in by far the most creative example of season 4's newfound trope - is ripped into another dimension (a warp bubble experiment that lasts for 30 seconds from Wesley's point of view but was hours from Beverly's),
* Some kidnapped humans raised as another species,
* Riker's abducted,
* Tasha's sister is a meanie,
* Troi loses her superpowers but regains them 49 minutes later,
* Data is retrieved by Dr Soong, with Lore in tow, all while two kids were playing dumb tricks in an area that the adults could have designed better if children were authorized to go running around there as there are plants producing parasite-infested pods for all the kids running around to get a free meal out of before apparently risking their own deaths and all... sheesh, it'd be like Earth if someone designed shopping mall and put laburnum trees and poison ivy for the kids to hide behind and merrily nibble on all over the place. Maybe add some electric fences on all the public urinal troughs for real dazzle too, good grief... (granted, who designed the mall, which species, where's the kids' chaperone to keep them in direct view in such an environment that may not be good for naive kids to go nibbling on everything that's right there, especially when there's an Orange Julius at the corner as every mall had lots of those...)


and so on...

I thought one of the off screen things on the Enterprise D was a shopping mall. Or was that a fan joke / rumor?

 

[Qonundrum]

I thought one of the off screen things on the Enterprise D was a shopping mall. Or was that a fan joke / rumor?

I've heard it both ways. The transcript makes it read more like they went to a planet, which makes more sense as (a) the ship has replicators and doesn't need vendors, and (b) if the ship's decorators knew that the ship would have families but then litter the place with plants in plain reach that would poison everyone - that's even worse...

 

[DonIago]

Well, we know from "Data's Day" that the E-D had an area with replicators that could make things other than food, which basically is a shopping mall of sorts, or at least reduces the need for one significantly. Which I know isn't really related to the events of "Brothers".

OTOH, it might have been nice, especially given the sheer size of the E-D, to have seen some more innovative design work, though I don't think anyone would expect them to make a shopping mall for one episode.

I'm just reminded of how much it blew my mind when we first saw Yorktown in Beyond. Realistic or not, that was a sight to behold.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well, we know from "Data's Day" that the E-D had an area with replicators that could make things other than food, which basically is a shopping mall of sorts, or at least reduces the need for one significantly. Which I know isn't really related to the events of "Brothers".

OTOH, it might have been nice, especially given the sheer size of the E-D, to have seen some more innovative design work, though I don't think anyone would expect them to make a shopping mall for one episode.

I'm just reminded of how much it blew my mind when we first saw Yorktown in Beyond. Realistic or not, that was a sight to behold.

Well I didn't know that the Ent-D had a special area with replicators for use. I love little facts like that

 

[Tosk]

they'd kind of been written into a corner by Piller.

And then out of.

(Piller also wrote BoBW part 2.)

 

[DonIago]

Well I didn't know that the Ent-D had a special area with replicators for use. I love little facts like that

I guess even if we hadn't seen it I would have assumed that something like that must have existed, given that the E-D had a substantial civilian population aboard...but also something like that for situations where they'd need to replicate parts for repairs or such. But yeah, we see it in that episode.

 

[Qonundrum]

“Family” already addressed the immediate aftermath. Aside from having an immediate followup after Satie's comments in "The Drumhead", it's not really necessary.

^^this. TNG did it just right, balancing character development, continuity, and remaining standalone episodic. Picard always had a strong character persona as well, so - after also including "elapsed time" - it never felt like too much of a stretch, even if the stardate mentioned still suggests quick recovery. People have accepted less plausible situations, especially in TOS, like when Nomad came aboard.

Even "Descent" had the Federation showing no lack of concern with Picard's mental status. Fast forward to the 1996 flick and, on top of every other bit of mental gymnastics for the storyline, now all of a sudden they are. One or two big plot points are one thing, but the movie is loaded with too many inconsistencies to really get invested in.

Of if the Federation was concerned, it might be because Nechayev chewed Picard out for nursing the rescued Borg despite the mental gymnastics to get around why they take it in the first place (they don't even describe anything to erase their transporter residual energy "footprint", much less wiping off fingerprints or anything else.) But the Captain's Logs reveal all and he has a crew, with half a dozen senior staff, including COUNSELOR* Troi, to back him up.

* Yup, if the flashing text tag wasn't removed in the HTML 5 protocol, I'd have used that too. As well as raising the font by about 72pt or so.​

But it could have worked as either a season 6 episode after “Chain of Command” or season 7 episode immediately after “Descent, pt II”, after Picard’s experience with Hugh and the rogue Borg, and nearly engaging in genocide against the Borg, to be counseled by Troi and examine his continuing psychological struggle. It would also allow Picard to contrast his lack of trauma from being interrogated by the Cardassians.

^^this

The Federation, probably had, and left it to Nechayev to chew him like bubblegum as a verbal reprimand and let it be. Especially as the Cardassian incident was far more recent... at least Picard said he was about to crack, like that egg. When in doubt, get David Warner. Hmmm, would season 1 have been near-greatness if every single episode had utilized the trope of "same actor, different character" with Warner appearing 25 times over, complete with 25 different latex face masks? Like the Tootie Pop question, we may never know.

Side note: The Cardassian incident didn't have a dozen episodes with Picard as well. He and Troi did counseling off-screen, because the show was always about more than that.


Recalling one of the best scenes from "Descent":

NECHAYEV: Captain, I've read the report that you submitted to Admiral Brooks last year regarding the Borg you called Hugh, and I've been trying to figure out why you let him go.​

PICARD: I thought that I had made that clear.​

NECHAYEV: As I understand, it you found a single Borg at a crash site, brought it aboard the Enterprise, studied it, analysed it, and eventually found a way to send it back to the Borg with a programme that would have destroyed the entire collective once and for all. But instead, you nursed the Borg back to health, treated it like a guest, gave it a name, and then sent it home. Why?​

PICARD: When Hugh was separated from the Borg collective he began to grow and to evolve into something other than an automaton. He became a person. When that happened, I felt I had no choice but to respect his rights as an individual.​

NECHAYEV: Of course you had a choice. You could've taken the opportunity to rid the Federation of a mortal enemy, one that has killed tens of thousands of innocent people, and which may kill even more.​

PICARD: No one is more aware of the danger than I am. But I am also bound by my oath and my conscience to uphold certain principles. And I will not sacrifice them in order to​

NECHAYEV: Your priority is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens, not to wrestle with your conscience. Now I want to make it clear that if you have a similar opportunity in the future, an opportunity to destroy the Borg, you are under orders to take advantage of it. Is that understood?​

PICARD: Yes, sir!​

But she sure was certain that this program, nothing more than a glorified Escher painting, would confuse them all into self-destruction. It's still a lovely nod to TOS, where Kirk nagged umpteen computers into their blowing themselves up somehow, but - somehow - making Hugh aware of his emotions led to more damage, with terrifying results. Shame about the incidental music being reminiscent of a field full of cow patties when - if the teaser had Ron Jones' music - the story needed Ron Jones to make it really come alive, if not any of the composers since the issue wasn't that of the composers but the desired musical style (ironically thanks to Ron Jones, but season 4 was the pinnacle after 3 years of series-elevating greatness), but pt 1 has strong enough dialogue and plotting that it doesn't matter much...

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Amazing teaser. Almost every teaser from seasons 5-7 had real incidental music, which was the biggest tease of them all. But there I go digressing all over the floor again... I'll get the mop...

 

[DonIago]

But she sure was certain that this program, nothing more than a glorified Escher painting, would confuse them all into self-destruction. It's still a lovely nod to TOS, where Kirk nagged umpteen computers into their blowing themselves up somehow, but - somehow - making Hugh aware of his emotions led to more damage, with terrifying results.

I don't think the point was whether she or anyone else knew it would work; the point was that in the end Our Heroes didn't even attempt it. That Hugh's individuality proved damaging to at least a portion of the Collective is essentially happenstance, and we're left with no idea whether the pretty picture would have been more, less, or equally as damaging.

Personally I think the Borg are advanced enough that their immediate threat response in such situations is to sever the vessel(s) involved from the Collective to mitigate further damage.

 

[Takeru]

No, it was not that kind of show, it was about exploration and interesting/weird sci-fi adventures. Devoting more episodes to Picard recovering would have hurt the show, no one watching back then wanted a multi episode arc about the captain being traumatized and getting therapy.
Even DS9 which was more serialized never bothered showing characters dealing with trauma for more than an episode, Sisko got over Jennifer's death in the pilot, Nog had one episode to get over his severe trauma after losing his leg. Miles deal with various different traumas in between episodes etc.

I'm pretty sure Patrick Stewart would have been against it too, while in theory it could be interesting to play that it would mean relegating him to the sidelines, showing him in therapy while the rest of the crew does the job without him would have made Picard a superfluous character, why keep him around when the rest of the crew gets the job done without him?

 

[DarKush]

I wouldn't have minded seeing him grapple more with the residual effects, but I don't think I would've liked to see them do successive episodes about it. I'm thinking it might have been nice to have Stewart out of several episodes at the beginning of the fourth season and then do the "Family" episode to bring him back. TNG did a lot better grappling with Picard's assimilation trauma than VOY did with Janeway, Tuvok, and Torres.

 

[CoveTom]

I wouldn't have minded seeing him grapple more with the residual effects, but I don't think I would've liked to see them do successive episodes about it. I'm thinking it might have been nice to have Stewart out of several episodes at the beginning of the fourth season and then do the "Family" episode to bring him back. TNG did a lot better grappling with Picard's assimilation trauma than VOY did with Janeway, Tuvok, and Torres.

Yeah, but the reality is that this is television and Patrick Stewart was the star. You don't pay big money to your star and then have them sit out for several episodes.

 

[CoveTom]

Amazing teaser. Almost every teaser from seasons 5-7 had real incidental music, which was the biggest tease of them all. But there I go digressing all over the floor again... I'll get the mop...

That's because Rick Berman didn't have any control over the commercials.

I think people harp on Berman too much and I think he overall did a very good job running Trek. But his views on music in TV were atrocious and really hurt that era of Trek. Thank goodness he didn't bring the same approach to the films he produced.

 

[Phoenix219]

6 episode Captain Riker arc, or a new role for Picard as on-board diplomat, would have been ideal for me.