• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Least Disliked Episode 2025 - TNG Season 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
A difficult choice here.

The Most Toys I guess is a good episode rather than an excellent one.

The Survivors
The Defector
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Offspring
Sins of the Father
Hollow Pursuits
The Best of Both Worlds (I)
 
All excellent ones left. It's almost like throwing a dart to see who is taken out.

"Hollow Putsuits" is taken out. If only Barclay had locked the door to the holodeck...


The Survivors
The Defector
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Offspring
Sins of the Father
The Best of Both Worlds (I)
 
I know some people like to give names to cars and toasters, but this episode is another hollow emotion tugging extravaganza that coasts on the season 2 story exploring... the same thing, only flawed in other ways, complete with Troi acting like a kindergarten school teacher at one point:

The Offspring


Hallie Todd excels in this role. She also excels in a certain sitcom:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Tubbs is better, I agree! Also, it's not in HD, it's just upscaled from a DVD release and it's overly smoothed because they shoved 9 episodes onto a disc and the compression artifacting was all over the place somethin' awful...


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
If the chip circuits and paths are identical, and you're doing a hard drive transfer from one to the other, there's no theory about it folks. It's like buying two computers with the same CPU and RAM and operating system and thinking one will do something completely different. Also, is the spelling really "Lal" and not "LOL"? This episode is unintentionally funny at times, right down to mommy Crusher telling junior Crusher to get his hair cut.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
I'd still prefer a story with actual humans and not robots as a bizarre allegory/allusion that some've said I resemble, or else I'm going to be extra-polite to the stove timer every time it flashes me with "00:00". I'll spare a couple of crude jokes, oddly... apart from this one:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.



Also, can I swap my previous vote's position with this one? Or three earlier? Okay, it won't make much of a difference but still...

What's left:
The Survivors
The Defector
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
Sins of the Father
The Best of Both Worlds (I)
 
^^Ninja'd despite anticipation that it'd be spared for just long enough before my next turn, hehe!

The Survivors

this one has pacing that is so good that one doesn't really notice that it's about a dude torturing Troi so she can't figure out his secret, that he committed absolute genocide - at temporal level - meaning the Husnock never existed. A crime so far out of Picard's jurisdiction. And yet the dialogue is so poetic. Everything about it ends up being more than the sum of its parts.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
I love how the mystery ship's shields are like the Borg's - in visage and in description. Not intentional, true, but still.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
The mystery unthickens. But even Rishan's lifeform presence remains, which suggests it's created solely to minimize suspicion from any passer-by. Then comes the big plot bombshell.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Were you expecting Troi's song to continue forevermore?



Story list remains unchanged.
 
TNG has always had its ups and downs, but

Yesterday's Enterprise

is removed.

I wish they used the original 1701-C model design, though it was as cost-prohibitive as proper costumes for the 1701-C crew. That, along with some soapy elements. knocks this roller coaster off the rails just enough when compared to the remaining episodes on the list.

And now, it's clippyshow time!

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
On Star Trek, The Intake Generation!

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Good ending.




startrekride.jpg

Season 3 really was a one heck of a roller coaster ride, wasn't it?


As for the episode that wins, you will find some of the best scenes here:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

The Best of Both Worlds (I) WINS, WOOHOO!
 
Are we on S4 yet? Can I start it off with The Loss? Yuck.

LOL, I hear ya. I do want to see the whole list, since I've got the memory of a dromedary and I suspect there's at least one that's dreadfully worse. Maybe two...
 
Was there ever any doubt? Every other season of TNG could have some debate, but how could BoBW not be it for S3?
and
Of that final three, I think I would have axed BOBW before "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Defector."


It wasn't an easy decision for me to made, they're a virtual tie in fact, and TBOBW pt1 has its share of soapy suds as well. I found the innovation of the cybernetic being to really be of higher caliber, and personal since it was Picard*, and a reveal that still scared the doodoo out of the audience, even if one could guess it either by the time they were asking for Picard by name or, more so, by the time we saw his neatly-packed uniform in a drawer. (...but no underwear, hmmm...)

IMHO, "Defector" was first rate, though for not knowing much of Romulus, the ship's holodeck captured the Valley of Chula with absolutely perfect detail and without Jarok being interrogated beforehand really sets it down. Compared to a lot of shows made later on, this in-story discrepancy is small beans but annoying nonetheless as there's no way to fix it via headcanon.
* other sci-fi shows have tried recreating the same thing, but either not having any panache, or intentionally camping it up, and losing all appeal. TNG set the bar on doing it, then undoing it, and the bar has yet to be set higher. (Spoiler alert, pt 2 > pt 1 for me, because nobody knew how they'd get out of it - we all knew at some point that Picard would be converted but we had zero clue as to how they'd save him, or even if. And how they did it, Mars defense group of three teensy ships aside, still held up where it needed to. But this is getting ahead of things...)​

Agreed, this was peak TNG for me.

Season 4's best just about holds its own with 3, and thankfully the music quality was allowed to remain the same for the few remaining stories after Ron Jones was axed, in favor of wallpaper flushable music (same composers, new edict). The real signs of rust began showing in season 5, to where even the use of real science was so increasingly lax that season 1 wanted an apology as they blended it right and more often. (True, ratings for 5 on initial viewing were the highest and yet... but that's really getting ahead of things.)
 
Season 4's best just about holds its own with 3, and thankfully the music quality was allowed to remain the same for the few remaining stories after Ron Jones was axed, in favor of wallpaper flushable music (same composers, new edict). The real signs of rust began showing in season 5, to where even the use of real science was so increasingly lax that season 1 wanted an apology as they blended it right and more often. (True, ratings for 5 on initial viewing were the highest and yet... but that's really getting ahead of things.)
To me, the Ron Jones' music is one of the things that really elevates BoBW as well, and thank goodness they allowed him to do both parts of it and maintain thematic consistency throughout. S3 and S4 are definitely better than S5-S7 in terms of music, but even by S3 we had started to see the edicts that prevented them from using any recurring themes or motifs.

After S1, we barely ever catch any reference to Goldsmith's TMP theme and, heck, only relatively rarely do we get even the TOS fanfare. Even beyond that, though, the composers were prevented from developing themes or even motifs that would persist beyond just an episode.

In addition to Jones being fired, it was absolutely criminal the way they hamstrung Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway, because they both proved that when they are allowed to stretch they can really rise to the challenge. McCarthy's Generations score is awesome, for example, and Chattaway's music that Picard plays in "The Inner Light" has become quite iconic. Unfortunately, those times they were allowed to do such things are few and far between. I will never understand how Berman could sit and watch Jerry Goldsmith work his magic for the movies he produced and yet think the sonic wallpaper was what the TV shows needed.
 
To me, the Ron Jones' music is one of the things that really elevates BoBW as well, and thank goodness they allowed him to do both parts of it and maintain thematic consistency throughout.

Ditto!

The story itself had a great Picard buildup, but sometimes a good score is inevitably needed. Ditto for TOS or any other show. The one thing I've wondered is if it's worse to have too little music, or too much. Am thinking it's the latter.

S3 and S4 are definitely better than S5-S7 in terms of music, but even by S3 we had started to see the edicts that prevented them from using any recurring themes or motifs.

True. While every composer has their style, recurring themes should be avoided. TOS reused music way too often, partly because it became iconic to an episode. Like "Amok Time". Individual scores for every episode costs more, but can get around that repetition easier, as well as allowing a composer to have so much more freedom to whip up and branch out styles, or to experiment...

Or how far the composers could go. "Booby Trap" was definitely too experimental, and as much as the original music was also thematic to the rest of the episode, I prefer what was cobbled up as it did have more tension. To compare:


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
(The intended score, so glad it exists so we can hear it! IMHO it really is too bombastic and has a style of "forget the scene, focus on THE MUSIC instead!", even when compared to the other scenes scored in this, which did work. But it does fit the style of the preceding scenes' scores in the episode. Yet it doesn't sell the suspense and tension in the way that the next clip does.)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
(Which was cobbled from a couple bits of existing music, also composed by Ron Jones, with one notably from "Where Silence Has Lease", so it doesn't feel entirely out of place. But, yeah, the scene needed tension tension tension, not action action action. Could the style Ron created for this episode actually have continued the tension motif, as opposed to choosing an actiony piece that doesn't fit the scene in the same way?)

Sadly, with season 4 getting too adventurous and too experimental with the bombast again, after "The Drumhead", the show would sharply change course and seasons 5-7 became... bland bland bland, no matter what the dialogue was trying to do. Bland, or unintentionally funny.

One story in particular is the polar opposite of "Booby Trap" regarding how music can impact a story and "Power Play"'s is just so bad that it takes me out of an otherwise story too many times to laugh with a tinge of sadness over how TNG could have continued. Then came future episodes where now they're really trying to mix action with "wallpaper" and the result is like taking a bucket of wallpaper paste and flinging it everywhere in the room. It's a bit messy...

After S1, we barely ever catch any reference to Goldsmith's TMP theme and, heck, only relatively rarely do we get even the TOS fanfare. Even beyond that, though, the composers were prevented from developing themes or even motifs that would persist beyond just an episode.

The TOS fanfares were almost as grating as seeing TOS model ship props in the ready room, briefing room, etc. There as fanwankery and "memberberries". As in 'member this, we do, don't you see it here, isn't that cute, coochiecoochiecoo?

TMP's theme is a curate's egg. It's grand, but never clicked for TOS for me - why was the TOS theme not rescored for the big screen? Not deemed iconic enough? Especially when Star Trek V rolled up. A movie later, it's proven that the TOS theme could be translated to the big screen.


In addition to Jones being fired, it was absolutely criminal the way they hamstrung Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway, because they both proved that when they are allowed to stretch they can really rise to the challenge.

^^this

Seasons 1-4 are replete with scores from every composer that embrace and extend the episodes, melding with an iconic style but not supplanting. 5-7 too often do the sheer opposite, pulling away from the potential of the episode and distracts.

McCarthy's Generations score is awesome, for example, and Chattaway's music that Picard plays in "The Inner Light" has become quite iconic. Unfortunately, those times they were allowed to do such things are few and far between.

Or "The Next Phase" which, after a dozen episodes featuring what sounds like a bog full of frogs farting, has something of substance that complements the story instead of distracting from it.

I will never understand how Berman could sit and watch Jerry Goldsmith work his magic for the movies he produced and yet think the sonic wallpaper was what the TV shows needed.

My guess, of recent, is that "24th century humans are more like proto-Vulcans and not as emotional, so why shouldn't their music be?" The music is arguably an "embrace and extend" in a completely different way - from this possible future universe of the 24th century down to us in the 20th/21st. But does it work? Often, IMHO, not often. Storytelling has always been a balance of the intellect and the visceral, though not always 50/50 and too much of one or the other can become grating. But even silent films had the background music to enhance proceedings and to maintain attention. The "wallpaper music" is another interesting experiment. The problem is, I don't recall episodes in which it worked (unless it was rarely used). Most of the time I only remember episodes rendered worse because of it.
 
Last edited:
To me, the Ron Jones' music is one of the things that really elevates BoBW as well, and thank goodness they allowed him to do both parts of it and maintain thematic consistency throughout. S3 and S4 are definitely better than S5-S7 in terms of music, but even by S3 we had started to see the edicts that prevented them from using any recurring themes or motifs.

After S1, we barely ever catch any reference to Goldsmith's TMP theme and, heck, only relatively rarely do we get even the TOS fanfare. Even beyond that, though, the composers were prevented from developing themes or even motifs that would persist beyond just an episode.

In addition to Jones being fired, it was absolutely criminal the way they hamstrung Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway, because they both proved that when they are allowed to stretch they can really rise to the challenge. McCarthy's Generations score is awesome, for example, and Chattaway's music that Picard plays in "The Inner Light" has become quite iconic. Unfortunately, those times they were allowed to do such things are few and far between. I will never understand how Berman could sit and watch Jerry Goldsmith work his magic for the movies he produced and yet think the sonic wallpaper was what the TV shows needed.
As a point of interest (maybe), the episode writers were thrilled with Chattaway's "Tin Man" score; it was his first for the series and he went in directions that he was later instructed not to go again.

Specifically, parts of the score were considered "too military."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top