The way TNG looked in the ENT episode "These are The Voyages"....

[The Rock]

Since this is about both TNG and ENT, I figured it'd be best to put it in this forum. But if it's in the wrong forum, please direct it to the correct one, mods.

The Enterprise episode "These Are The Voyages" may have been a bad episode, but the TNG era set-pieces in the episode never looked better! They looked far better than anything that was seen in the actual TNG show. I think one of the best looking parts was when Troi and Riker are sitting down talking, and in the windows you can see a beautiful looking asteroid belt. Also, the shot of the Enterprise-D at the end of the episode was great!

So my question is, is this how TNG was always supposed to look like, but they just didn't have the budget to do so at the time the TNG show was on the air?

 

[Captain X]

The sets were wrong, the plot didn't make any sense, and my apologies to Gabe, but I like the filming model better.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

What no discussion on how Frakes and Sirtis looked crammed into their old uniforms? No bad jokes. What's going on here?

 

[Kadratis]

^ Not to mention the out of place turbolift.

 

[AlphaMan]

Not only was TATV terrible, it nearly ruined a perfectly great TNG episode, Pegasus. The plot had very little to do with the plot in Pegasus... and I won't even get into Trip's useless sacrifice.

 

[ClayinCA]

It didn't ruin "Pegasus." That episode is still sitting there, unmolested, in my TNG Season Seven DVD set. It's like making a bad movie out of a book - the movie might be terrible, but the book is just fine.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't even get why they had to try to sandwich Riker's holodeck time in with the events of The Pegasus, which BTW they failed at. Epic failure. And why they felt the need to show us modern-day Frakes and Sirtis and force us to believe they were Riker and Troi from eleven years previous is a mystery we'll never get a satisfactory answer to.

If for some weird and cocaine-related reason they felt that Riker and Troi's Jonathan Archer holodeck program had to be the series finale for Enterprise, why not have it set post-Nemesis, with the two of them on board the Titan. I mean, from a production viewpoint it wouldn't have been difficult. Building sets for the Titan couldn't have cost anymore than re-building the TNG sets did. And they must have plenty of CG models on hand of any of the 24th century starships. And at least we'd have a logical reason for why Riker and Troi look older, they're supposed to.

It is for these reasons that TATV remains the one undeniable failure in all of Star Trek.

 

[trekker670]

I know I'm in the vast minority, but I really enjoyed TATV. I dont think it was a good final episode for Enterprise, but if the idea would have been possible as a TNG episode, I think it would have been great.

I understand what TPTB were trying to do; they realized that Trek would be done for a while, so they wanted to give us a going away present (I believe they described it as a valentine). Earlier in the season they gave us some TOS, so they then decided to give us some of the most successful series that was set in the 24th century. I liked how they used the holodeck instead of a true time travel episode. I liked how they incorporated in into a pre-existing storyline. I did not, however, like how they killed off one of the main characters.

Also, back on the subject this is supposed to be about, I really liked the look of the E-D (other than the turbolift, of course). If I remember correctly, everything they used was either the same stuff they originally used (refurbished if necessary) or recreated from the original plans and painted with the same colors, etc. So that was really what TNG would have looked like if it had been shot in digital.


Here is a great link for more info.

 

[trevanian]

So my question is, is this how TNG was always supposed to look like, but they just didn't have the budget to do so at the time the TNG show was on the air?

TNG's budget for its era was a lot higher than Ent's was for its time as I recall. It may be that ENT spent more on vfx (early years of TNG only spent 5% - 8% of their budget on visual effects, 60,000 to 100,000 per show), but the ones i saw didn't look very good -- could be because of the blah colors and with the last episodes, shooting digital, which still looks weak to me.

 

[Timo]

As for a different-looking turbolift, hey, there's no real reason they all would have to look the same. During TNG, we saw at least two variants: with and without an internal access panel.

These are not like elevator cabs of today, all installed at the same time and remaining there forever. They are more like taxi cabs in a city: new models are no doubt introduced as old ones are phased out. During "Pegasus", the ship might have had a few examples of the lift cab type we saw. Perhaps our heroes simply never ran into them again in TNG (there'd be hundreds of cabs aboard that ship), or perhaps they were withdrawn for being somehow faulty?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jamestyler]

Sharper picture is not a friend of Frakes or Sirtis. I rented the episode to give it a second chance a few days ago and just thought it was odd seeing all the vibrant colours on the D. But not a bad odd... more like a Trials and Tribbleations 'Oh.. thats what it was supposed to look like' odd.

I liked the idea of visiting the past from a modern(ish) perspective, but the Shran plot seemed odd, Trips death rushed and slightly sadenned that everyone got the Harry Kim method of promotion.

Though in the extras I was happy to see Marina Sirtis being as concerned about looking her age as I was

 

[The Wormhole]

sadenned that everyone got the Harry Kim method of promotion.

Harry Kim method of promotion? We only saw Harry Kim for seven years. We could always assume he was promoted after that, after all Janeway was, so there's no reason Harry couldn't.

However, here we see that everyone kept the same ranks for ten years. That's much worse than Harry Kim.

 

[warriorsfan]

If for some weird and cocaine-related reason they felt that Riker and Troi's Jonathan Archer holodeck program had to be the series finale for Enterprise, why not have it set post-Nemesis, with the two of them on board the Titan. I mean, from a production viewpoint it wouldn't have been difficult. Building sets for the Titan couldn't have cost anymore than re-building the TNG sets did. And they must have plenty of CG models on hand of any of the 24th century starships. And at least we'd have a logical reason for why Riker and Troi look older, they're supposed to.

Placing the events on the Titan would also have explained why the holodeck could create holographic clothing over Riker's uniform, which the Ent-D's holodecks most certainly could NOT do.

 

[The]

It is for these reasons that TATV remains the one undeniable failure in all of Star Trek.

A little of an exaggeration, eh? I can think of dozens worse episodes from each series (and the entire series of VOY) that are worse in plot than TATV. The story may have been weak, but everything else is just nerd-complaints about sets and details. That's not directed towards you, specifically, of course. But, everyone always wails and moans about TATV as if it were the worst travesty in entertainment history. And, all the hatred is very symptomatic as to why Trek needs to divorce its fanbase and just concentrate on what it would like to do to be successful. The "Fans" will never be happy...

 

[The Wormhole]

It is for these reasons that TATV remains the one undeniable failure in all of Star Trek.

A little of an exaggeration, eh?

Not really, no. Even ignoring the idiotic TNG framing story, the ENT story of TATV was also ass. They committed character assassination of Shran, gave Trip the worse death imaginable (even Tasha Yar being bitch-slapped by a tar pit was better than that), and ruined what was Enterprise's best season. I don't deny that other Treks have bad episodes, but when you consider evrything that TATV was supposed to be, it's difficult to look at it as anything other than a complete failure.

That being said, I do agree that some people to overreact to the episode. Just the level of anger some people express over it surprises me. Yes, it saddened and disappointed me, but I can't find it within me to get angry over it. And don't get me started on the denial of Trip's death. He died. It was a crappy and stupid death, but it happened. Deal with it. Or do these people go around to graveyards and write "Not.Dead" on graves?

 

[greenmystik]

It is for these reasons that TATV remains the one undeniable failure in all of Star Trek.

A little of an exaggeration, eh?

Not really, no. Even ignoring the idiotic TNG framing story, the ENT story of TATV was also ass. They committed character assassination of Shran, gave Trip the worse death imaginable (even Tasha Yar being bitch-slapped by a tar pit was better than that), and ruined what was Enterprise's best season. I don't deny that other Treks have bad episodes, but when you consider evrything that TATV was supposed to be, it's difficult to look at it as anything other than a complete failure.

That being said, I do agree that some people to overreact to the episode. Just the level of anger some people express over it surprises me. Yes, it saddened and disappointed me, but I can't find it within me to get angry over it. And don't get me started on the denial of Trip's death. He died. It was a crappy and stupid death, but it happened. Deal with it. Or do these people go around to graveyards and write "Not.Dead" on graves?

Wait....Trip is dead? But...in the books...back to life...it's canon right?

 

[bigdaddy]

The sets were too bright for me, they looked funny, but that might have been the TV aging.

However 10-15 years later things will always look better, more so CGI. However I HATE CGI Trek ships, but that's because I love the old looknig models.

 

[greenmystik]

Here here for real models!

 

[RandyS]

^ Not to mention the out of place turbolift.

And the fact that they put the doors in the conference room on backwards. The orange side with the labels identifying the room is supposed to be on the outside.

 

[TheGodBen]

^ Not to mention the out of place turbolift.

And the fact that they put the doors in the conference room on backwards. The orange side with the labels identifying the room is supposed to be on the outside.

It was something new they were trying out that week. Now when you are looking for a room you walk in, read the back of the door and if it is the wrong room then you walk out again. Picard was trying it out in an attempt to make the seventh season of TNG more interesting.