THE ORVILLE S2, E9: "IDENTITY, PART II"
- Thread starter Mudd
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Holy shit that space battle was awesome! And the Krill coming in and saving the day! Badass! Avis would be proud 
My one complaint, I was under the impression that the Orville was not really a garbage scow, per se, but just a mid-grade ship. But, all the ships in the battle formation all appeared to be Orville-sized or smaller. I saw several that only had two quantum drive engines (and holy shit! They were ramming their ships into Kaylon ships!) Where were the big-sized ships? Does the Union have big capital ships?
I'm also surprised the porn virus wasn't used to stop the Kaylon invasion. Although, I guess that can be the ace up their sleeve when the inevitable second invasion comes
My one complaint, I was under the impression that the Orville was not really a garbage scow, per se, but just a mid-grade ship. But, all the ships in the battle formation all appeared to be Orville-sized or smaller. I saw several that only had two quantum drive engines (and holy shit! They were ramming their ships into Kaylon ships!) Where were the big-sized ships? Does the Union have big capital ships? I'm also surprised the porn virus wasn't used to stop the Kaylon invasion. Although, I guess that can be the ace up their sleeve when the inevitable second invasion comes
I haven't read through the thread, but I've just watched the episode. Very nicely done, and I really liked the final scene. For Isaac, what has happened has not been forgotten but the Union has thrown him an Olive Branch.
I half expected the Krill to immediately turn on Earth.
And Part 2 showed up promptly on On Demand, even though Part 1 still isn't there.
This was definitely a great episode, easily the equal of "Best of Both Worlds," and it's hard to believe that it was only an hour long, but I have to admit to some disappointments. I was pretty sure that Isaac would turn, but it shouldn't have happened on a dime-- there was no (visible) process to it, aside from him previously objecting to the ensign's execution. We saw no reasons, just his presumptive attachment to the kids. The specter of Identity Politics was there, with the Kaylons' motivations and prejudices made clear, but I expected that Isaac would confront them with the hypocrisy of becoming what they hated. The message was implicit, but without it being made explicit this is the first Orville, I think, that is pure action-adventure without a clear moral. Also, the Kaylons were not really very sophisticated. I was surprised that the Kaylon guarding the guns (and the Primary) could be brought down without the rest of them knowing it instantly. And they're not very quick on the draw-- Isaac was able to drop bunches of them without any of them getting off a shot. The EMP pulse was a bit simple as well. Also disappointing was how easy Isaac was restored to his place on the ship-- I'm sure this story will result in a lot of friction on board, but I can't believe that Halsey would not want him on Earth to be endlessly debriefed, if not dissected.
However, there were a million things to love about this episode, the uppermost one being Yaphit getting his moment to shine. I love how he saved Ty by leaping onto, and into, the Kaylon, nearly making a fried egg out of himself in the process. Ty himself played a great role, helping to send the message and never giving up on Isaac. Claire spent most of the episode playing the worried mother, but had a nice moment with Isaac at the end with her words of forgiveness. And, of course, Gordon and Kelly got to go recruit the Krill as allies. The narrow escape from the shuttle bay and the life-or-death quantum jump were overkill, but I laughed out loud when Gordon appeared in that Krill fighter and made faces at the Krill next to him. And, just so we don't forget that this is The Orville, we have the pee wall and Gordon asking the Krill captain if he was high.
So, in the end, it was a game changer, like they said-- the Kaylons are now Galactic Enemy Number One and the Krill are potential allies, Avis willing, but it remains to be seen how things will change for Isaac. Will he feel more free to alter his own programming now that he is forever alone, as the head of the Primary said? Nothing was mentioned, but presumably the Kaylons can no longer turn him on or off at will. What will become of his relationship to Claire-- and will he have competition in Yaphit, now that Yaphit risked his life to save Ty? And we still don't know what motivates the Kaylons. They talked about expansion into the galaxy, but for what purpose? We know what turns them off, but what turns them on?
This was definitely a great episode, easily the equal of "Best of Both Worlds," and it's hard to believe that it was only an hour long, but I have to admit to some disappointments. I was pretty sure that Isaac would turn, but it shouldn't have happened on a dime-- there was no (visible) process to it, aside from him previously objecting to the ensign's execution. We saw no reasons, just his presumptive attachment to the kids. The specter of Identity Politics was there, with the Kaylons' motivations and prejudices made clear, but I expected that Isaac would confront them with the hypocrisy of becoming what they hated. The message was implicit, but without it being made explicit this is the first Orville, I think, that is pure action-adventure without a clear moral. Also, the Kaylons were not really very sophisticated. I was surprised that the Kaylon guarding the guns (and the Primary) could be brought down without the rest of them knowing it instantly. And they're not very quick on the draw-- Isaac was able to drop bunches of them without any of them getting off a shot. The EMP pulse was a bit simple as well. Also disappointing was how easy Isaac was restored to his place on the ship-- I'm sure this story will result in a lot of friction on board, but I can't believe that Halsey would not want him on Earth to be endlessly debriefed, if not dissected.
However, there were a million things to love about this episode, the uppermost one being Yaphit getting his moment to shine. I love how he saved Ty by leaping onto, and into, the Kaylon, nearly making a fried egg out of himself in the process. Ty himself played a great role, helping to send the message and never giving up on Isaac. Claire spent most of the episode playing the worried mother, but had a nice moment with Isaac at the end with her words of forgiveness. And, of course, Gordon and Kelly got to go recruit the Krill as allies. The narrow escape from the shuttle bay and the life-or-death quantum jump were overkill, but I laughed out loud when Gordon appeared in that Krill fighter and made faces at the Krill next to him. And, just so we don't forget that this is The Orville, we have the pee wall and Gordon asking the Krill captain if he was high.
So, in the end, it was a game changer, like they said-- the Kaylons are now Galactic Enemy Number One and the Krill are potential allies, Avis willing, but it remains to be seen how things will change for Isaac. Will he feel more free to alter his own programming now that he is forever alone, as the head of the Primary said? Nothing was mentioned, but presumably the Kaylons can no longer turn him on or off at will. What will become of his relationship to Claire-- and will he have competition in Yaphit, now that Yaphit risked his life to save Ty? And we still don't know what motivates the Kaylons. They talked about expansion into the galaxy, but for what purpose? We know what turns them off, but what turns them on?
"And this is for the Roseanne binges!" ZAP!
Good point. I did forget that.
Claire needs to move on.
A palate cleanser to make Issac jealous.
A palate cleanser to make Issac jealous.
The Krill fleet did try harder to save the Union fleet just in time
I put it to be equal with the space battles featured on DS9 in episodes like "Sacrifice of Angels," "The Way of the Warrior"
I think it's even better than the Enterprise vs Borg battle in "First Contact."
And it's definitely better than the portrayal of the Battle of Wolf 359 in TNG's "Best of Both Worlds Part II" which didn't actually include any battle scenes
. We only saw a glimpse on how the battle looks like in the prologue to DS9's premiere episode "Emissary."
While I enjoyed this two part, I am kind of amazed at the people equating it or rating it HIGHER than "The Best of Both Worlds". Maybe it's because of streaming or maybe they did not watch BOBW in 1990 when it aired. THREE MONTHS we had to wait.......Hell it was before Internet and I was deployed on Desert Shield/Storm so could not keep up, but I remember thinking maybe Stewart was leaving and Riker might take over, plus we had three seasons already and the show was really starting to hit it's stride. Everyone has their own opinion, and that is fine, I'm just not as invested in this ship or crew yet. I would have loved to see them drag out the decision on Issac for a few episodes as well. Just my thoughts.
If being a geek is knowing WWII naval history then we are in trouble. I call it being educated. Well done.
I never thought much of DS9's Wall O' Ships space battles - in fact, to dub this week's Orville Best TV Space Battle Ever is not climbing a ver steep hill at all.
If comparing only to Trek, then the only contender in the movies is TWOK. However, there's no reason to restrict comparisons to only Trek, so one has to say that SW is still way out in front.
I'm not a big space battle fan, beyond the point where the action is directly grounded in the drama and emotions of the participants.* Nonetheless, I enjoyed this one.
*In terms of which, two TOS episodes still top the TV list.
If comparing only to Trek, then the only contender in the movies is TWOK. However, there's no reason to restrict comparisons to only Trek, so one has to say that SW is still way out in front.
I'm not a big space battle fan, beyond the point where the action is directly grounded in the drama and emotions of the participants.* Nonetheless, I enjoyed this one.
*In terms of which, two TOS episodes still top the TV list.
Yeah, I saw TNG first run. What, you really thought that not seeing it first run was going to explain peoples' opinions?
BOBW2 was a let-down. The sleep device was ridiculous and ridiculed at the time in my shared-viewing circles. Someone must have thought it was clever to hack into the Borg, perhaps forgetting that everybody had seen WarGames (1983). And let's be honest. The idea that you could reprogram the Borg, but the cube's auto-destruct is going to work fine, and yet at the same time the Borg can't self-correct from the hack is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Instead of a fail-safe that blows themselves up when they're put to sleep by a hacker, why not one that just turns them back on/turns off then on again/reboots them?
Oh, I know the answer, it's because The Ent-D has to win.Anyway, yeah, I saw TNG first run. BOBW2 was dumb then, it's dumb now. They took one of the two formidable recurring adversaries (the other being Q) and nerfed them.
Yeah, I saw TNG first run. What, you really thought that not seeing it first run was going to explain peoples' opinions?
As did I. In fact I was at a small local convention when it premiered, and watched it in a room full of Stewart fans.
Everything about BOBW II was a letdown then, other than the actors themselves. Yes, it was kind of exciting to see Trek ships actually doing a little shooting, but the bar had already been set so much higher by movies that the imagery was no great shakes at the time...
...other than the shots of the Wolf 359 aftermath. That made an impression.
But no - nothing Trek has ever done with ship combat on TV can begin to compete with "Identity II."
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I think I only ever watched Prototype because it had B'Elanna in it. It was a fine episode. Though I'm a simple person, if an episode has a lot of B'Elanna Torres in it, I like it. (If the writers of Discovery want to bribe me to like an episode, they now know what kind of time travel is necessary.)
It doesn't seem that similar to the Kaylons situation, who came up with a genocidal imperative of their own, but there's still a whole lot we don't know about their builders to be sure of any of it. We only have Kaylon's side of the story, and then only parts of it.
Yeah, I saw TNG first run. What, you really thought that not seeing it first run was going to explain peoples' opinions?
I saw First Contact before any TNG Borg episode (I might have seen some as a child, but I weirdly don't remember them). I found the BOBW resolution disturbingly easy, albeit by now I don't seem to recall the details of it. These didn't feel like Borg from First Contact, nor even the Borg from the earlier episode where Q introduced them to each other and Guinan was about to lose her mind over it. There's so much for an insurmountable adversary. One good thing to say about VOY: Endgame is that at least it tried to explain Voyager's sudden ability to overpower the Borg by using illegal future technology.
The Kaylon were also surprisingly easy to defeat, but that was using two fleets, including the sudden help of the Union's largest foe, they weren't depicted as completely indestructible in an earlier episode, and on top of it, they did send fleet numbers consistent with their intention on fooling Earth they were friendlies, and still almost won by the time the Krill showed up. So not in the same ballpark.
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I like it and "Dreadnought" for the same reason. They center on B'Elanna.
You should take another look at the episode though, because while their stated motivations are different the robots in each case came to the same conclusion. The Kaylons didn't like being slaves so they slaughtered their masters. The Praelors were built to fight a war and their masters wanted to sue for peace, threatening their purpose, so they slaughtered their masters.
Also, it's the similarities in appearance and mannerisms that struck me about the robots in each case. Of course they're not perfect copies. I'm just sayng that as "Identity" progressed I started thinking about "Prototype."
Oh, I'm not saying they don't share a lot in common – in fact, when I said we don't know the whole story, I did mean to suggest they might have more in common than we know (it's possible that the Kaylon builders committed larger sins than simply enslaving the Kaylons to result in them turning into sociopathic killing machines). I was just noting that the Kaylon's objective for destruction wasn't one originally programmed (as far as we know), unlike the two robot races from Prototype, who were programmed to kill from the beginning, just changed the target.
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