The Kobayashi Maru Test

[Cakes488]

You drive a car right. If you don't see the crumpled wreck up ahead of you because you are driving to fast does that not mean you're going to wreck too.

PHYSICS... Come one... Stop being an idiot or do you like being a tool because you have a hate on for a Character that IS and always has been an opinionated egotistical yet very intelligent hero archetype.

You really have to stop because you're so wrong everyone is laughing at you.

Sorry to jump in here (he he he not really) but I think you're getting mixed up betwixt William Shatner and Cappy Kirk. Cappy Kirk was not an egomaniac!!! Just as he's not a douchebag as someone so eloquently called him. Watch some TOS looking for these traits and you'll see that you are mistaken. I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of him being opinionated...because he may have been ..but only to a point, he takes careful consideration of what his crew's input is...and he does that always. Oh and another thing...give Jeyl a little break here...he is fighting you all off tooth and nail and doing it alone...so y'all that are opposed to him need to fight fair.

I have watched every episode of TOS several times.

You do realize the best people to lead are Egotists because they have confidence in themselves. And we aren't using Egotistical in it's negative connotation here. There are a lot of good people who do great things and are nice people who are egotistical. Kirk is Egotistical and there were times when he was a douche in Trek (Like dealing with the Station Manager in Trouble with Tribbles he said some douchy things) it all leads back to perception and the fact that your perceptions build YOUR personal reality. I know several of my friends who are Egotistical Asses, but they are still deep down nice people who try and do the right things, but when pushed will allow that DEMON to come out. Kirk as he is in the movie hasn't learned what the Prime Kirk had and that was when to shut off his Ego (he begins to get there near the end of the movie by listening to Checkov's idea so the stage of his maturation is set) but there is that Egotistical side and that side that when the need calls for the douchebag comes out.

Jeyl is just continuing on with his obtuse thinking because he WANTS to hate this new version of Kirk which is just a younger LESS mature, not as well seasoned version of the original Kirk. I'm not going with actors here I'm talking about Character.

It's kind of a Douch move to let your best friend think he's killed you until he begins to say he's going to turn himself in to the authorities like Kirk did to Spock in Amok Time.

Meant as a joke, but if I had a friend who let me think I killed him and then says something while I'm getting ready to call the cops to turn my self in.. Yeah I'd call him a douche.

I think those two referances will suffice...

Trouble with Tribbles
Amok Time.

Several times...?? That's it?? I see that you're a TOS slacker!


No I didn't realize that the best people to lead are egotists because they are confident...and I'm not sure I'm buying that argument. I'd prefer my leader to be confident and assured period...minus the egotistical bullshit. If you have a huge ego you don't listen to anybody and your way is the best way...that's my opinion and yes that's my reality too (lol). I can't recall off the top of my head what Kirk said in Troub. w/ Trib's...but I would only brand him an egotistical douche if this trait was present throughout the series...and I don't believe it is...yes we can name instances...but we can't label him that based on a couple... or I'll even give you a handful of episodes. Kirk was forced to feign death in Amok Time...didn't he...him and McCoy didn't "fool" Spock just for fun.

I understand Jeyl's complaints because yeah this nuKirk was hard to take in spots -- I don't want to go into detail (belive it or not lol) but I would preferred the brashness to be a little bit more subtle, it was a touch over the top....but I can believe and go along with that this is a younger version of my Kirk so he's yet to mature into the man I know..and dare I say, love. Same thing for that Scotty guy..ugh...he's the one I really didn't like out of all of them. Sorry getting offtrack...but if Kirk and Scotty are portrayed the same way in the next installment then I'm done with them. They need to be a little bit more mature and yes I would like them to be closer in performance (just a smidge) to the original actors. That's why we all loved Urban's perfomance...because he was most like Kelley and nobody want's to aknowlege that....so if they're portrayed the same way in the next round then I'll be on Jeyl's bandwagon....looks like there's plenty room on there for me .

 

[aelius]

Sorry to jump in here (he he he not really) but I think you're getting mixed up betwixt William Shatner and Cappy Kirk. Cappy Kirk was not an egomaniac!!! Just as he's not a douchebag as someone so eloquently called him. Watch some TOS looking for these traits and you'll see that you are mistaken. I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of him being opinionated...because he may have been ..but only to a point, he takes careful consideration of what his crew's input is...and he does that always. Oh and another thing...give Jeyl a little break here...he is fighting you all off tooth and nail and doing it alone...so y'all that are opposed to him need to fight fair.

I have watched every episode of TOS several times.

You do realize the best people to lead are Egotists because they have confidence in themselves. And we aren't using Egotistical in it's negative connotation here. There are a lot of good people who do great things and are nice people who are egotistical. Kirk is Egotistical and there were times when he was a douche in Trek (Like dealing with the Station Manager in Trouble with Tribbles he said some douchy things) it all leads back to perception and the fact that your perceptions build YOUR personal reality. I know several of my friends who are Egotistical Asses, but they are still deep down nice people who try and do the right things, but when pushed will allow that DEMON to come out. Kirk as he is in the movie hasn't learned what the Prime Kirk had and that was when to shut off his Ego (he begins to get there near the end of the movie by listening to Checkov's idea so the stage of his maturation is set) but there is that Egotistical side and that side that when the need calls for the douchebag comes out.

Jeyl is just continuing on with his obtuse thinking because he WANTS to hate this new version of Kirk which is just a younger LESS mature, not as well seasoned version of the original Kirk. I'm not going with actors here I'm talking about Character.

It's kind of a Douch move to let your best friend think he's killed you until he begins to say he's going to turn himself in to the authorities like Kirk did to Spock in Amok Time.

Meant as a joke, but if I had a friend who let me think I killed him and then says something while I'm getting ready to call the cops to turn my self in.. Yeah I'd call him a douche.

I think those two referances will suffice...

Trouble with Tribbles
Amok Time.

Several times...?? That's it?? I see that you're a TOS slacker!


No I didn't realize that the best people to lead are egotists because they are confident...and I'm not sure I'm buying that argument. I'd prefer my leader to be confident and assured period...minus the egotistical bullshit. If you have a huge ego you don't listen to anybody and your way is the best way...that's my opinion and yes that's my reality too (lol). I can't recall off the top of my head what Kirk said in Troub. w/ Trib's...but I would only brand him an egotistical douche if this trait was present throughout the series...and I don't believe it is...yes we can name instances...but we can't label him that based on a couple... or I'll even give you a handful of episodes. Kirk was forced to feign death in Amok Time...didn't he...him and McCoy didn't "fool" Spock just for fun.

I understand Jeyl's complaints because yeah this nuKirk was hard to take in spots -- I don't want to go into detail (belive it or not lol) but I would preferred the brashness to be a little bit more subtle, it was a touch over the top....but I can believe and go along with that this is a younger version of my Kirk so he's yet to mature into the man I know..and dare I say, love. Same thing for that Scotty guy..ugh...he's the one I really didn't like out of all of them. Sorry getting offtrack...but if Kirk and Scotty are portrayed the same way in the next installment then I'm done with them. They need to be a little bit more mature and yes I would like them to be closer in performance (just a smidge) to the original actors. That's why we all loved Urban's perfomance...because he was most like Kelley and nobody want's to aknowlege that....so if they're portrayed the same way in the next round then I'll be on Jeyl's bandwagon....looks like there's plenty room on there for me .

For the record...
"I take this project very seriously, it is you I take lightly."
Kirk to Federation Undersecretary Nilz Baris
Slightly douchey
As for Amok Time, yeah he had to fool Spock. But he didn't have to wait for Spock to remand himself over to McCoy for court martial before sauntering out of the adjoining room with a terribly smug smile on his face.
I have always thought Kirk was a great character, but he can be kind of a dick.

 

[Cakes488]

I have watched every episode of TOS several times.

You do realize the best people to lead are Egotists because they have confidence in themselves. And we aren't using Egotistical in it's negative connotation here. There are a lot of good people who do great things and are nice people who are egotistical. Kirk is Egotistical and there were times when he was a douche in Trek (Like dealing with the Station Manager in Trouble with Tribbles he said some douchy things) it all leads back to perception and the fact that your perceptions build YOUR personal reality. I know several of my friends who are Egotistical Asses, but they are still deep down nice people who try and do the right things, but when pushed will allow that DEMON to come out. Kirk as he is in the movie hasn't learned what the Prime Kirk had and that was when to shut off his Ego (he begins to get there near the end of the movie by listening to Checkov's idea so the stage of his maturation is set) but there is that Egotistical side and that side that when the need calls for the douchebag comes out.

Jeyl is just continuing on with his obtuse thinking because he WANTS to hate this new version of Kirk which is just a younger LESS mature, not as well seasoned version of the original Kirk. I'm not going with actors here I'm talking about Character.

It's kind of a Douch move to let your best friend think he's killed you until he begins to say he's going to turn himself in to the authorities like Kirk did to Spock in Amok Time.

Meant as a joke, but if I had a friend who let me think I killed him and then says something while I'm getting ready to call the cops to turn my self in.. Yeah I'd call him a douche.

I think those two referances will suffice...

Trouble with Tribbles
Amok Time.

Several times...?? That's it?? I see that you're a TOS slacker!


No I didn't realize that the best people to lead are egotists because they are confident...and I'm not sure I'm buying that argument. I'd prefer my leader to be confident and assured period...minus the egotistical bullshit. If you have a huge ego you don't listen to anybody and your way is the best way...that's my opinion and yes that's my reality too (lol). I can't recall off the top of my head what Kirk said in Troub. w/ Trib's...but I would only brand him an egotistical douche if this trait was present throughout the series...and I don't believe it is...yes we can name instances...but we can't label him that based on a couple... or I'll even give you a handful of episodes. Kirk was forced to feign death in Amok Time...didn't he...him and McCoy didn't "fool" Spock just for fun.

I understand Jeyl's complaints because yeah this nuKirk was hard to take in spots -- I don't want to go into detail (belive it or not lol) but I would preferred the brashness to be a little bit more subtle, it was a touch over the top....but I can believe and go along with that this is a younger version of my Kirk so he's yet to mature into the man I know..and dare I say, love. Same thing for that Scotty guy..ugh...he's the one I really didn't like out of all of them. Sorry getting offtrack...but if Kirk and Scotty are portrayed the same way in the next installment then I'm done with them. They need to be a little bit more mature and yes I would like them to be closer in performance (just a smidge) to the original actors. That's why we all loved Urban's perfomance...because he was most like Kelley and nobody want's to aknowlege that....so if they're portrayed the same way in the next round then I'll be on Jeyl's bandwagon....looks like there's plenty room on there for me .

For the record...
"I take this project very seriously, it is you I take lightly."
Kirk to Federation Undersecretary Nilz Baris
Slightly douchey
As for Amok Time, yeah he had to fool Spock. But he didn't have to wait for Spock to remand himself over to McCoy for court martial before sauntering out of the adjoining room with a terribly smug smile on his face.
I have always thought Kirk was a great character, but he can be kind of a dick.

I think that is a great line that he said, no an excellent line, IMO not douchey at all...Nilz was the one who was a douche!! Kirk was stern with him...but not a dick...(IMO). In Amok Time Kirk needed time to be revived, I see what you're saying but I mean come on..any delay in telling Spock that Kirk was alright was for dramatic effect...it was a tv show after all. So I don't buy this Kirk is a douchebag thing AT ALL...and I think there is better evidence out there of him being so...but these two examples ain't it.

 

[pookha]

actually that was just one line of many that kirk threw out during tribbles.
he was in a bad mood with a headache and didht hesitate to take this out
on baris.

 

[khaaan!!!]

I see it as Kirk in this timeline doing it to show both: A. that he can and B to make a joke of what he sees as a ridiculous test. Not the most noble of reasons and he does come off looking piety the way it plays in the movie.

That for me does not take away from what the impression I had from TWoK. These are two different Kirks who were raised in very different ways. They share many of the same qualities but are not duplicates. I am fine with that. I am sure if was more noble when Prime Kirk did it.

I will say I am happy they put it in there i liked the touch.