The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McNally

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Oh sweet Baby Rays barbecue sauce... you can't have it both ways. You can't say 'no should care if the Patriots cheat because all teams cheat' then get mad when someone says your Patriots are cheaters. YOU have repeatedly said that all teams cheat, so by definition that makes the Patriots cheaters.
Agreeing with you doesn't make me a crybaby, a whiner, or bitchy.

Sure all the teams in NFL cheat. Look at how many holds aren't called, or how many dirty plays are caught on camera, but never punished. Its difficult to believe that the Saints were the first team to set up a "bounty" system for hits, they were just the first team to get CAUGHT.

Just like in NASCAR, if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin'.

That's a known fact, and I wish the Dolphins were better at cheating. I never blamed the Patriots for our failures, that's on us, and attempting to attack my posts by accusing me of being a whiny crybaby and blaming the big evil Patriots for all our woes is hilarious.

So, again - you can't have it both ways. You can't set up an impossible standard for proof, then claim that people are evil little weasels because they don't hold to your standard of evidence.

You can't claim the "all teams cheat" line of defense, then get mad because someone agrees with you.

You can't be a winning team AND expect all people to love you and never call you bad names.

That's the way it goes.

As a Steeler fan, I'm glad Brady will play the first game. I would have hated to beat a "Bradyless" team, then have them come back all pissed off later in the play-offs.

Now we get the pissed off Brady Thursday

And yet all the allegations are from teams teams, players executives, and coaches who have been smacked around by BB and the Patriots for the last 15 years. Who is really being the whiners?

Every team does little things to gain an advantage. All of them. Including the Patriots. But is BB really in the heads of people so much that they are complaining that the god damn Gatorade is too warm at Gillette? If so, maybe the smartest thing Belichick has ever done is convince teams thats he's up to something. All their time and effort seems to be into discovering what little trick he is up to, instead of, I donno, trying to win the game.

I don't think Scout is arguing that no one does anything, but I love the gall of other NFL owners (and fans for that matter) acting all shocked and offended, and wanting blood, when ALL of their teams have been doing little things here and there to gain an advantage. The difference is that the Patriots have been beating their teams for 15 years, and frankly, they are sick of it.

Patriots fans on the other hand, are pissed because no other team has been fined or penalized like their team has, for stuff that was minor, and done by other teams (Spygate, and yes they should have been punished, they pushed it too far), or stuff that the NFL couldn't even find hard evidence for (deflategate). So this whole argument that we should just sit and take it is asinine. The team is being held to a different standard because they had the audacity to be a constant winner in a time where parity is wanted.

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

I personally think this is all because no one can stand Belichick.

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

I personally think this is all because no one can stand Belichick.

And you'd be right. They hate that he doesn't fall in line. They hate cause he does his own thing, and that he doesn't care about the rest of the league. They hate he is grumpy to the media. They hate that he wins over and over and over. And they hate that the guy has forgotten more football information then they have learned their whole lives.

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

I personally think this is all because no one can stand Belichick.

And you'd be right. They hate that he doesn't fall in line. They hate cause he does his own thing, and that he doesn't care about the rest of the league. They hate he is grumpy to the media. They hate that he wins over and over and over. And they hate that the guy has forgotten more football information then they have learned their whole lives.

Yup, but to the last part... he sure knew allot more since he's had Brady as a QB, eh?

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Sure, if you ignore the year he went 11-5 without Brady. Lost the division on a 2nd or 3rd tiebreaker as I recall. You can push the narrative that Belichick is just a product of Brady, but it would be a pretty poor argument. Plus he's got a couple more rings than Brady.

Had a pretty good career in the NFL by any measure, and could make an argument for best coach of all time. He's in the discussion and only loses on personal preference if you don't pick him...

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Sure, if you ignore the year he went 11-5 without Brady. Lost the division on a 2nd or 3rd tiebreaker as I recall. You can push the narrative that Belichick is just a product of Brady, but it would be a pretty poor argument. Plus he's got a couple more rings than Brady.

Had a pretty good career in the NFL by any measure, and could make an argument for best coach of all time. He's in the discussion and only loses on personal preference if you don't pick him...

Wasn't LT the center of his defense in NY?

Now all coaches need great players to succeed, but damn ... LT and Brady...

He didn't do much in Cleveland, eh?

I'm actually a fan of his. I love how he shrugs off the media. I love how he pushes the envelope.

He's a brilliant football coach. Of course I'm sure he owes allot of that prowess to Parcells.

Interesting article here...

http://nypost.com/2015/09/08/spygate-much-worse-than-belichick-goodell-divulged-report/

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Ok, try it a different way: name me a good coach that never had any good players. You're really digging here, so let's see an example that makes your point. Gotta be a coach you're thinking of with zero notable players, right?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Working for a competitive advantage is part of the game, as is expressing faux shock and outrage when others are caught doing something you would like to do or should have thought of yourself.

However, hate is not what drives the NFL's response, nor is it jealousy on the part of the other owners. Let's face it, the NFL is one of the few guaranteed profit centers in the United States and that little club of guys is going to stick together and make sure the money keeps flowing come hell or high water.

The NFL's response is driven by a desire to project perfection, unity, and "fair play." It has been insanely uneven because the Commissioner's office is headed by a brain-dead buffoon, and the player's union rolls over every single time.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Ok, try it a different way: name me a good coach that never had any good players. You're really digging here, so let's see an example that makes your point. Gotta be a coach you're thinking of with zero notable players, right?

Well, Tebow's been punted, so we could pick Philly for that!

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

You're ready to enshrine Chip Kelly?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Sure, why not? ESPN's Skip Bayless called Chip a "Snake in the Grass" for cutting Tebow Christ. The man must be codified for all posterity!

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Had a pretty good career in the NFL by any measure, and could make an argument for best coach of all time. He's in the discussion and only loses on personal preference if you don't pick him...

He's easily the best coach and strategist of the modern era, but "all time" is a lot more difficult to qualify. It was such a different game 30 years ago that it's impossible to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Ok, try it a different way: name me a good coach that never had any good players. You're really digging here, so let's see an example that makes your point. Gotta be a coach you're thinking of with zero notable players, right?

Not sure what you're trying to say. ... or get me to say.

I've said what I wanted... I'm not stretching anything.

If he was the "all-time" greatest thing ever to hit the NFL on the coaches side, why didn't he win in Cleveland?

My point was simple, even the good coaches need good/great players to win. Don't make anymore of it.

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

He's easily the best coach and strategist of the modern era, but "all time" is a lot more difficult to qualify. It was such a different game 30 years ago that it's impossible to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

No argument there; really have to consider things by era in sports. Things change too much to compare straight up. And can only measure against contemporary competition; best HOF QB from the 50s wouldn't even make the practice squad now, and best LB might get arrested for assault. Best WR today would be in a wheelchair by halftime. Just not the same game.

That's why I left the leeway for 'in the conversation', though. Certainly the best, or one of the best, in the game in the modern era. Who knows how he's stack up playing against Lombardi, but they both have to get mentioned in those kinds of conversations. Those are the fun kinds of arguments to have.

Ok, try it a different way: name me a good coach that never had any good players. You're really digging here, so let's see an example that makes your point. Gotta be a coach you're thinking of with zero notable players, right?

Not sure what you're trying to say. ... or get me to say.

I've said what I wanted... I'm not stretching anything.

If he was the "all-time" greatest thing ever to hit the NFL on the coaches side, why didn't he win in Cleveland?

My point was simple, even the good coaches need good/great players to win. Don't make anymore of it.

Not trying to GET YOU to say anything. You were questioning the credentials by implying that he just did it on the back of Brady, or LT before him. All I did was ask you to point to a great coach that didn't have any great players on their team.

Spoiler alert: can't be done. Those teams didn't win, so they didn't get the coach much attention. Maybe a great coach can turn a 2-14 team into a 5-11 team consistently, but you aren't getting in the books for that. If you can take the 8-8 team and make it consistently 11-5, you're in the playoffs and making a run, so have a chance.

Just saying that you shouldn't be looking down on Belichick just because he had a couple great players; most good coaches do. And heck, the attempted knock on Brady is that he was a system QB anyway, so you can't take the credit away from Brady by saying he's a product of the system, and then knock the guy that created the system by saying he's only good because of Brady. They're both good, so there's gotta be talent in there somewhere; either it's all one of them, or they're both pretty decent at what they do.

Belichick has freely admitted that he made mistakes in Cleveland, his first attempt at being the head coach. He was a rookie head coach, entering a rebuilding franchise, and his, uh, lovable demeanor didn't play well in that atmosphere. The franchise itself was a bit of a mess, kinda indicated by them literally moving to Baltimore in the middle of the night after that, no? He did go 37-45 in that span, so wasn't a disaster, just made mistakes, as he freely admitted. That team got better as things went on, so he was building something, even if he got fired before it came to fruition. Got to 11-5 and 2nd round of the playoffs towards the end of his run, just tanked again the following season. Honestly don't know enough about the browns to dig into what the hell happened there, but can't all be on the coach, can it? 11-5 to 5-11 is a pretty drastic swing, would expect to see players moved, or got hurt, or something...

Can't argue that he didn't learn from Cleveland and make adjustments, though. He did a bit better in his next HC job...

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Hell if the argument is that he is only a good coach because of good players, then Tony Dungy, Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy must be total morons for not winning multiple Superbowls with their HOF bound quarterbacks.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Well, you could make an argument that McCarthy is a moron and he's been carried by the best quarterback of the last decade or so. Terrible clock management and some really inexplicable playcalling the last few years.

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Hell if the argument is that he is only a good coach because of good players, then Tony Dungy, Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy must be total morons for not winning multiple Superbowls with their HOF bound quarterbacks.

That's not the argument at all.

Tony didn't win the SB until be had Peyton.

Are you telling me that Sean Peyton wins without Breeze?

It reinforces that good coaches need great players to win.

 

[Yanks]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

....a and Spygate is still in the news....

What do you think about that Scout?

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Hell if the argument is that he is only a good coach because of good players, then Tony Dungy, Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy must be total morons for not winning multiple Superbowls with their HOF bound quarterbacks.

That's not the argument at all.

Tony didn't win the SB until be had Peyton.

Are you telling me that Sean Peyton wins without Breeze?

It reinforces that good coaches need great players to win.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that a coach isn't good just because he had a good player (or players), which is what was implied when you dropped that Belichick sucked in Cleveland and only had his other rings because of LT and Brady. Yes, coaches need good players to win, otherwise you don't get noticed. It's a balancing act, though, as the player CAN carry the coach if they get hot, which is why you see some teams kinda come out of nowhere, win one, and then disappear again. I'd argue that's kinda the deal with the Giants lately. If the D is strong, and Eli plays well, they win and Coughlin looks great. Eli doesn't play out of his mind, and the Giants fall apart. The good coach would help prevent the failure portion by keeping the floor higher. That's been the impressive part with the Patriots, the consistency in a league designed for parity. I'd argue a lot of that is coaching and the system.

....a and Spygate is still in the news....

What do you think about that Scout?

I think it's ESPN click-baiting and trying to keep this in the news now that Deflategate has gone quiet. I think there was some new info about the camera guy covering his logo or whatever, but a lot of it was just rehash of other rumors, most of which had been debunked. Still think Spygate was crap from the beginning, as it was another 'crime' committed by everyone. Jerry Jones, Madden, and others have been directly quoted saying that. Belichick pushed the line after being told not to, so had to come down on him for being stupid there, but the actual offense was a joke. Filming things wasn't even the offense, it was that it was 10 yards closer than it was supposed to be. If they do this from the press box or the first row of the stands, totally legal. Pats had a guy on the sideline instead. Wow...

In general, if you can write that big of a story and have the entire thing assigned to 'unnamed sources', 'former players', and other unattributed sources, it just smacks of a hit job and sour grapes. No new 'crimes' committed, lots of inuendo, nothing new really brought to the table. And lots of nonsense reported as fact because it's been said a few times. Including the 'taping walkthrough' bit that ESPN just finished apologizing for last week, and that the person attributed to that statement recanted under oath when it was brought up the first time.

Goodell trying to win in court of public opinion after losing in actual court, IMO.

Of course, the way it was written kinda made Goodell look even worse, if you really go through it, while not really changing anything from the Patriots' POV.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

The REAL question is, can the Commission of Owners punt Goodell as he so richly deserves? I don't like Brady or Belichick, but I purely despise Goodell and what he's done to the League. Has he screwed up enough in this and other things to warrant some kind of no-confidence vote and get him replaced?