Tapestry Ending Insults Ordinary People

[jamestyler]

To the OP's point, I've felt the same way about the episode from time to time. But what would've been interesting is if we saw that Lt. (JG) Picard had a fuller life in a way that Captain Picard didn't. Perhaps, LT (JG) Picard had married (maybe even Beverly), had a family because he was less focused on career advancement. And that gave him another kind of purpose.

That would make quite an interesting episode, to be honest. Though in context of this theme, it wouldn't fit sadly.

The point of the episode isn't about how bad an ordinary, mundane life is. It's about life without taking chances, always fearing conflict and never facing it.

The story isn't about a hatred of an unremarkable life, it's about allowing it to happen because of fear, caution and never taking chances. The rank and position aren't bad, being afraid to be more is - life can change for the better if we take chances.

 

[suarezguy]

By the way, I think it's implied (although it of course could have been more developed) that after sleeping with Marta and then her regretting it and rejecting him alt-Picard becomes at least as cautious in his personal and romantic life as in his career (Picard claims he's lacking in passion in general).

 

[at Quark's]

If you think about it, he's only mid-fifties, & could conceivably live another 60 or 70 years.

On a side note: according to Memory alpha, he would be about a decade older. Born in 2305, this episode taking place in 2369, would make him about 64 in Tapestry. And I actually would give him that age (even though he looks good). But if an average human could expect to reach 140 in the 24th century, shouldn't he more look like today's 35 or so?

 

[Mojochi]

On a side note: according to Memory alpha, he would be about a decade older. Born in 2305, this episode taking place in 2369, would make him about 64 in Tapestry. And I actually would give him that age (even though he looks good). But if an average human could expect to reach 140 in the 24th century, shouldn't he more look like today's 35 or so?

This is the common misconception about longevity. Advances in medicine have allowed for their life expectancy to reach or exceed 140 or so, but nothing is said of altering the aging process. People still look somewhat geriatric (roughly) by their 60s, but being so doesn't mean they're in the twilight of their lives anymore. They can live naturally (In Picard's case) another 60 or more years once they hit 60, but they're going to look like old people that entire time. You'd have to alter human DNA to slow or stop or reverse the aging process itself, which is not outside the realm of possibility, but isn't really the case for either us now, or for Trek people in the 24th century. Basically, Picard will look like a 60+ year old man for another 60 or more years. You know... kind of like the actor who plays him

 

[Lynx]

I don't think that Picard had a low opinion about ordinary crewmembers.

There were some older, low rank people on the Enterprise and I'm sure that Picard valued them for the work they were doing on the ship. It was just that he didn't want to be like that himself.

 

[at Quark's]

This is the common misconception about longevity. Advances in medicine have allowed for their life expectancy to reach or exceed 140 or so, but nothing is said of altering the aging process. People still look somewhat geriatric (roughly) by their 60s, but being so doesn't mean they're in the twilight of their lives anymore. They can live naturally (In Picard's case) another 60 or more years once they hit 60, but they're going to look like old people that entire time. You'd have to alter human DNA to slow or stop or reverse the aging process itself, which is not outside the realm of possibility, but isn't really the case for either us now, or for Trek people in the 24th century. Basically, Picard will look like a 60+ year old man for another 60 or more years. You know... kind of like the actor who plays him

If that were true, two thirds of humans should look like they're 50 or older. I don't think we ever see such a thing. Neither in, or out of starfleet. Within starfleet, I can still think of the 'gallopping the cosmos is a game for the young' but I can find no such reason for the lack of abundance of elderly looking people when our heroes are visiting earth or colonies and strolling amidst the ''general population'.

 

[JesterFace]

The only thing 'Tapestry' tackled (that I remember) was Picad's job. There are more things in life. I'm not sure if Picard really meant when he said he would rather die than live this "new life". If everything was good in my life, except I wouldn't enjoy my job 100%, I would take that opportunity. Picard really didn't have a problem big enough to die for.

Besides, he got to get it on with someone who he wanted to boink in his past, many, maybe all here would like to do that...

 

[Starfury]

One mans dreamjob is another mans nightmare. Just imagine Q tricked Montgommery Scott to a "boring" life in the center seat. I'm sure scotty would fight tooth and claw to get back to his engines, to get his old life back, a life that fulfills him, makes him happy, even if it kills him earlier. That would not be an insult to leaders. Neither is Picard's wish to get his old life back an insult to "ordinary" people.

 

[Mojochi]

If that were true, two thirds of humans should look like they're 50 or older. I don't think we ever see such a thing. Neither in, or out of starfleet. Within starfleet, I can still think of the 'gallopping the cosmos is a game for the young' but I can find no such reason for the lack of abundance of elderly looking people when our heroes are visiting earth or colonies and strolling amidst the ''general population'.

But you don't need to see them. You only need to see the natural aging process still functioning as it always has, which you do. If you had Frakes playing a guy who was 60, during the show in 1990, or Stewart playing a guy that was 80, then you could say, yeah, the aging process has been altered, because these people look much younger than the characters are portrayed as being (Which would be kind of cool to have characters like that) but as it stands, they age the same as we do, & then just happen to live quite a bit longer

 

[jamestyler]

You know.... there may be some logic in the slower aging process. Sure, we don't see it - but if better living conditions and awareness lengthen the lifespan, maybe those same conditions mean we age better?

Might not make much difference and I have absolutely no scientific thought to that, just a stray thought

 

[polyharmonic]

If you'd been captain of the Federation's flagship, would you be able to live your life as a nobody science officer with no chance of reaching your former height?

Picard lived a life as a nobody in Kataan as Kamin and was quite happy. When he reermeged back to his life as Enterprise Captain, he clearly cherished his nobody life. I DO NOT recall Picard saying, "Wow that life was crap and a nightmare, so dreary and mundane. I'm glad to awake from it."

So it stands to reason that he could have lived a fulfilling life as LTJG Nobody as well. AFAIK Kamin was no more a risk taker or adventurer than LTJG Nobody but that episode celebrated living an ordinary nobody life while "Tapestry" condemns it as worse than death.

So we have one episode that celebrates the mundane everyday ordinary life and ordinary people as being wonderful and fulfilling.

But we have another that condemns it as being tedious and dreary and soul crushing and insults us ordinary people in the process.

 

[Nyotarules]

But the entire point is that Picard is not an ordinary man. He has extraordinary gifts in leadership and intelligence, and I think the whole point of this episode is that wasting those gifts because he chose to play it safe is a crime.

Exactly! Picard experienced more than the ordinary and wanted to go back.

 

[Nyotarules]

On a side note: according to Memory alpha, he would be about a decade older. Born in 2305, this episode taking place in 2369, would make him about 64 in Tapestry. And I actually would give him that age (even though he looks good). But if an average human could expect to reach 140 in the 24th century, shouldn't he more look like today's 35 or so?

Maybe the aging genes slow down when you reach 70 or something so when you reach 140 you look 100 re McCoy in Farpoint. However there is a recurring character in the DS9 reboot novels, Commander Vaughn who is over 100 years old and has the energy, strength and agility of a 50 year old so in the ST universe there are anti aging treatments.

 

[DonIago]

Picard lived a life as a nobody in Kataan as Kamin and was quite happy. When he reermeged back to his life as Enterprise Captain, he clearly cherished his nobody life. I DO NOT recall Picard saying, "Wow that life was crap and a nightmare, so dreary and mundane. I'm glad to awake from it."

So it stands to reason that he could have lived a fulfilling life as LTJG Nobody as well. AFAIK Kamin was no more a risk taker or adventurer than LTJG Nobody but that episode celebrated living an ordinary nobody life while "Tapestry" condemns it as worse than death.

So we have one episode that celebrates the mundane everyday ordinary life and ordinary people as being wonderful and fulfilling.

But we have another that condemns it as being tedious and dreary and soul crushing and insults us ordinary people in the process.

Okay, except that in "Tapestry" Picard knew Q was directly responsible for what had occurred, while in "The Inner Light" the most likely responsible party is a probe that Picard can't do anything about.

Or, for all we know, he spent his first x years on Kataan yelling for Q to show up and fix things. The episode makes it clear that he didn't just submit to his fate. He tries to figure out where he is, whether he can contact the Enterprise, etc. We have no idea how much time he spent resisting the situation before he finally decided to suck up and deal.

It's possible LTJG Picard might have eventually found some happiness in the mundane, but just as in TIL, he first tried to return to the life he was familiar with. And as it turns out, in the case of "Tapestry" Q obliged him.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Every person has some flair or personality. Something interesting to them. Even if they aren't captain, they do something. They paint, or collect things, or whatever it may be, but they have a personality. The point of Blue Shirt Picard is that he did not have any of that. We do not see it outright, but we get the feeling that this is a person who has no friends (Picard ruined his friendships at the academy as a sign of that). We get the feeling this is someone who has no dedicated interests, and I think Q even says this version never finished anything he started and never saw anything through. It is a person who is timid at life, not just in not rising through the ranks, but not becoming anyone besides that. This is a Picard who would read about something archaeological, and never go see it. This is a person who never took a vacation on Risa. It is a miserable, unaccomplished man who never tried anything and has nothing to him. It is a person who goes to work, never says a joke, never talks to anyone, is awkward and shy at the office party, and goes home alone. And that is the person Picard did not want to be.

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

In the TNG episode "Tapestry", we see that Picard led a very different life due to wanting to change it. Instead of one that takes risks, is ambitious and pushes the envelope to get noticed and make Captain, he leads an ordinary, risk-averse life and is stuck at LTJG rank as some lowly nobody science officer.

Upon realizing this, Picard then declares that he would rather die as captain of the Enterprise than continue to live as a nobody.

On reflection, I started to think. Wait a minute, most of his crew members are probably nobody lowly crew members that never advance very far. Does Picard think that low of them? And IRL, most of us are that lowly nobody science officer. I mean is living an ordinary life that bad? Few of us can become extraordinary by definition and most of us IRL (and most people even in the Trekverse) live "dreary lives doing tedious jobs".

Don't get me wrong. I loved this episode. But there's no escaping that Picard would rather be dead than live some comfortable but ordinary life. Well most of us are that lowly nobody science officer IRL, I know I am. So it did feel a bit insulting to me.

I agree! Very entertaining episode.

However, Picard "ordinary life" was not a failure if he was a compassionate and kind human being.

That he defined his life by his status and profession is the viewpoint of a shallow Hollywood writer.

If any of you Trekkies out there are Garbagemen, work at Walmart or clean toilets at nightclubs, it doesn't matter-as long as you are compassionate and kind to living things. And therefore, certainly not better off dead. Yeah, this episodes message is pretty insulting.

 

[polyharmonic]

Every person has some flair or personality. Something interesting to them. Even if they aren't captain, they do something. They paint, or collect things, or whatever it may be, but they have a personality. The point of Blue Shirt Picard is that he did not have any of that. We do not see it outright, but we get the feeling that this is a person who has no friends (Picard ruined his friendships at the academy as a sign of that). We get the feeling this is someone who has no dedicated interests, and I think Q even says this version never finished anything he started and never saw anything through. It is a person who is timid at life, not just in not rising through the ranks, but not becoming anyone besides that. This is a Picard who would read about something archaeological, and never go see it. This is a person who never took a vacation on Risa. It is a miserable, unaccomplished man who never tried anything and has nothing to him. It is a person who goes to work, never says a joke, never talks to anyone, is awkward and shy at the office party, and goes home alone. And that is the person Picard did not want to be.

While I understand what you are trying to say, I still see a disconnect between the portrayal of LTJG Picard's life and Kamin's life. All you are saying about LTJR Nobody Picard could also be said about Kamin. Again Kamin wasn't some risk-taking, adventurer or accomplished person. Nor was Kamin someone that had any kind of "flair" or "personality" either.

Yet Kamin's ordinary mundane life is a treasured life despite being undistinguished.. So too could LTJR Picard's life even as a nobody science officer. Most of us are Kamin or Lowly LTJG Picard IRL after all. And I think our lives are not worse than death.

 

[Emperor Norton]

While I understand what you are trying to say, I still see a disconnect between the portrayal of LTJG Picard's life and Kamin's life. All you are saying about LTJR Nobody Picard could also be said about Kamin. Again Kamin wasn't some risk-taking, adventurer or accomplished person. Nor was Kamin someone that had any kind of "flair" or "personality" either.

Yet Kamin's ordinary mundane life is a treasured life despite being undistinguished.. So too could LTJR Picard's life even as a nobody science officer. Most of us are Kamin or Lowly LTJG Picard IRL after all. And I think our lives are not worse than death.

Kamin had a great deal of personality. The entire episode was based on the people in his life, what he did in his life, what he did for and meant to the people in his life, and his character. The depth of a character is not in a job title. Kamin was very accomplished. He had interests, he had family, and he had an impact on many people's lives. Blue Shirt Picard is not that. It doesn't matter what rank or position he had. That was simply an easy way to showcase the difference in Picard for narrative purposes. This is a Picard who does not have any character depth. It is a Picard who never did anything in or with his life, who never meant anything to anyone, who never had an impact on anyone, and who never had any personal accomplishment like friends, family or pursuing an interest. It is an isolated man who does nothing with himself and does nothing to the world or anyone in it.

 

[Nyotarules]

Kamin had a great deal of personality. The entire episode was based on the people in his life, what he did in his life, what he did for and meant to the people in his life, and his character. The depth of a character is not in a job title. Kamin was very accomplished. He had interests, he had family, and he had an impact on many people's lives. Blue Shirt Picard is not that. It doesn't matter what rank or position he had. That was simply an easy way to showcase the difference in Picard for narrative purposes. This is a Picard who does not have any character depth. It is a Picard who never did anything in or with his life, who never meant anything to anyone, who never had an impact on anyone, and who never had any personal accomplishment like friends, family or pursuing an interest. It is an isolated man who does nothing with himself and does nothing to the world or anyone in it.

This Picard would not even be assimilated by the Borg.

 

[Idran]

While I understand what you are trying to say, I still see a disconnect between the portrayal of LTJG Picard's life and Kamin's life. All you are saying about LTJR Nobody Picard could also be said about Kamin. Again Kamin wasn't some risk-taking, adventurer or accomplished person. Nor was Kamin someone that had any kind of "flair" or "personality" either.

Yet Kamin's ordinary mundane life is a treasured life despite being undistinguished.. So too could LTJR Picard's life even as a nobody science officer. Most of us are Kamin or Lowly LTJG Picard IRL after all. And I think our lives are not worse than death.

Picard spent months as Kamin trying to get back in contact with the Enterprise, and eventually came to appreciate it after long exposure. He spent, what, less than a day in the Tapestry alternate timeline (if it even was an alternate timeline and not just a false environment created by Q)?

Also, he had a loving and supporting family as Kamin. He apparently had no one at all as a Ltjg.

 

[Mojochi]

Every person has some flair or personality. Something interesting to them. Even if they aren't captain, they do something. They paint, or collect things, or whatever it may be, but they have a personality. The point of Blue Shirt Picard is that he did not have any of that. We do not see it outright, but we get the feeling that this is a person who has no friends (Picard ruined his friendships at the academy as a sign of that). We get the feeling this is someone who has no dedicated interests, and I think Q even says this version never finished anything he started and never saw anything through. It is a person who is timid at life, not just in not rising through the ranks, but not becoming anyone besides that. This is a Picard who would read about something archaeological, and never go see it. This is a person who never took a vacation on Risa. It is a miserable, unaccomplished man who never tried anything and has nothing to him. It is a person who goes to work, never says a joke, never talks to anyone, is awkward and shy at the office party, and goes home alone. And that is the person Picard did not want to be.

And yet there is no point at which Q tells Picard that he must live that way. On what is potentially his deathbed, he's offered a chance at a second life. The catch is that he must take the life of an inhibited Picard who hadn't taken advantage of it, but that's not a mandate that he must continue. He's still the same Picard as before. He has all those life lessons to consider still. It's a LIFE, not a sentence. He could've made of it whatever he wanted. He instead rolled the dice on possibly dying, as if that Picard's LIFE was worth less than no life at all. That's pretty close-minded. As I said, he showed more thoughtfulness about weighing the options in bloody Rascals, even if the result was similar