Surnames in Star Trek

[Skipper]

We had an exchange of views on an Italian forum regarding Beckett's surname from Lower Decks (Mariner) wondering where it came from. Let's say that the opinions were equally divided between "Mother's maiden name" and "Surname invented to distance herself from parents". From there arose a more general discussion about how surnames are used in Star Trek, even the alien ones! On Earth, there are many ways of passing surnames to children. In many countries father's one is transmitted, others the surnames of both parents, some use the "Son of", others (a minority but they exist) mother's one. Ditto for the surname of a woman after married. Practically in all European countries she keeps the one as a maiden, in the Asian countries it depends, Korea they keep the maiden's one, in Japan they take the husband's one etc. But even in these nations many find this to be a male chauvinist and patriarchal custom.

And we come to Star Trek. I understand that this is a show made in the USA, but it is ridiculous that ALSO aliens use US customs regarding surnames. All married women have the surname of the husband, all children that of the father. For a show that prides itself on embracing infinite diversity, it doesn't even do so with something as basic as surnames. Of course, one might say "no no in the future you will be able to choose your surname for yourself and for your children". But it is a bit strange that in such an egalitarian and multi-cultural future everyone, I repeat EVERYONE, adapts to the ancient customs of the disappeared United States of America, from the earthly female captain of a spaceship to the son of a Klingon family. Surely an US audience doesn't even notice it, but for the rest of the world let's say it's sometimes a jarring note.

Shouldn't a show that embraces multiculturalism in this way try to get away at least a little from the chauvinistic customs of a single terrestrial culture at least in regards to such an important part of the individual as is the surname? Your thoughts?

 

[Brennyren]

I feel like I should point out that we don't know that Carol Freeman took her husband's last name; all we know is that they share a surname. It could be a name chosen by the two of them, or it could have originally been Carol's last name. Which means that Mariner might be either Carol's birth surname, Alonzo's birth surname, or a name chosen by Beckett. Or possibly, Alonzo isn't Beckett's biological father/Carol's first husband, and Mariner is the surname of the fellow who is/was. (I feel like that would have come up before now, but it hasn't actually been ruled out,)

We do know at least two main-cast male-female married couples in which the wife didn't take her husband's surname: Will Riker and Deanna Troi (Picard teasingly refers to Riker as "Mr. Troi" in Nemesis), and Tom Paris and B'Elanna Torres (when Paris raises the idea, an annoyed Torres asks what century he thinks this is).

 

[Tosk]

(Picard teasingly refers to Riker as "Mr. Troi" in Nemesis)

Even with jokes aside, Will and Deanna's daughter has the surname Troi-Riker.

Jadzia Dax also did not alter her name when she married Worf.
Lwaxana decided not to take her husband's surname for her third or fourth marriages. (Or possibly all of them, we don't know for sure.)

 

[Skipper]

We do know at least two main-cast male-female married couples in which the wife didn't take her husband's surname: Will Riker and Deanna Troi (Picard teasingly refers to Riker as "Mr. Troi" in Nemesis)

Well, this is possibly just for marketing reasons. So you don't have to re-label all the merchandise. And they even had to point out that it was the exception to the rule.

and Tom Paris and B'Elanna Torres (when Paris raises the idea, an annoyed Torres asks what century he thinks this is).

Still it's a little strange that he even raised the idea.

 

[Skipper]

Jadzia Dax also did not alter her name when she married Worf.
Lwaxana decided not to take her husband's surname for her third or fourth marriages. (And possibly first, but we don't know for sure.)

They are aliens, so there is some sort of leeway. But Keiko took her husband surname and everyone acted like it was the most natural thing in the world. And already today if a Japanese woman marries a foreigneir she can keep her japanese surname.

 

[Skipper]

By they way, it's interesting how Lwaxana, who was always depicted as very proud of her Betazoid heritage was perfectly ok with taking her husband's surname and giving it to their daughters too, something that a lot of people see as chauvinist even today.

 

[Tosk]

They are aliens, so there is some sort of leeway.

You brought up aliens in your post though, which is why I felt free to use them.

I don't think it made it to the screen, but in script form Kasidy Yates did take Ben's last name...but makes it come after her own. (a la Kestra and Thad Troi-Riker.)

 

[Skipper]

You brought up aliens in your post though, which is why I felt free to use them.

You are right, but still we have situations like the Lwaxana's one that are at least perplexing. Yes, Deanna maintained her surname after the wedding, buy why he had gotten his father's in first instance?

 

[Christopher]

I thought this thread was going to be about the excessive preponderance of Anglo-Saxon or Irish surnames in Star Trek -- a bad habit I'm also noticing in The Orville now that I'm catching up with it. But then, that applies to the given names too.

By they way, it's interesting how Lwaxana, who was always depicted as very proud of her Betazoid heritage was perfectly ok with taking her husband's surname and giving it to their daughters too, something that a lot of people see as chauvinist even today.

Do we know that? How do we know Ian didn't take her surname? We never got confirmation that he went by that name before he was married, as far as I know. I always thought that was what was implied by Picard calling Riker "Mr. Troi" -- that Betazoid custom was for the husband to take the wife's surname.

I mean, while there are people with the surname Troy, the Troi spelling always seemed to me like it was intended to be alien.

 

[The Wormhole]

What I never understood was the confusion that apparently exists in universe about how Bajoran names work. That is in the episode Ensign Ro, Ro has to correct Picard and Riker when they refer to her as "Ensign Laren" and explain that in Bajoran tradition, the family name is first, the individual name is last. Picard says he wasn't aware of this, to which Ro says that these days, many Bajorans use a "traditional" name structure as a means of assimilating into the galaxy.

Which definitely comes off as downright weird and American-centric to me. There are plenty of cultures on Earth that place the family name first, among them the Chinese, one of Earth's largest cultures which makes up a decent percentage of Earth's overall population. There's absolutely no reason why Bajorans placing the family name first should be considered "some weird alien thing" which they have to abandon to fit in with the rest of the galaxy.

Granted, the whole line in Ensign Ro was just a clunky means of providing exposition to the audience, but it still makes no sense in universe. We also see this continues to be a thing on Voyager, specifically with Crewman Tal Celes, who is frequently referred to as "Crewman Celes." Considering this is Voyager's sixth season, close to a decade after Bajorans were first introduced and after seven years of DS9 on which Bajor and its people have a central role, everyone should be well educated at this point as to how Bajoran names work.

 

[Skipper]

There are plenty of cultures on Earth that place the family name first, among them the Chinese, one of Earth's largest cultures which makes up a decent percentage of Earth's overall population.

And Japanese too, and this often confounds anime fans about which is the first name and with is the surname of their favorite characters

 

[Skipper]

I remember an episode in an alternative timeline where Picard and Beverly Crusher married and she took his name. So in the Star Trek universe this was absolutely the norm.

 

[Christopher]

And Japanese too, and this often confounds anime fans about which is the first name and with is the surname of their favorite characters

That happened in a couple of the early Star Trek: Enterprise novels. One or two of the authors mistakenly referred to Hoshi Sato as "Ensign Hoshi" instead of "Ensign Sato." They assumed she was using Japanese name order, when in fact she was using Western name order, as Japanese people generally do in English-speaking contexts. The author or authors were presumably unaware that Sato is the most common Japanese surname, while Hoshi is a very common given name (though it can be a surname too).

Another instance of this mistake was Tanaka Rei, the Flash of Earth-D, an alternate Earth in DC Comics where the superheroes are more ethnically diverse (hence the "D"). The character's creator Marv Wolfman treated Tanaka as his given name and Rei as his surname, even though it should be the other way around. Tanaka is almost as common a Japanese surname as Sato.

 

[Tosk]

I remember an episode in an alternative timeline where Picard and Beverly Crusher married and she took his name. So in the Star Trek universe this was absolutely the norm.

That just means that Beverly was fine with taking Jean-Luc's surname. It doesn't necessarily mean it was the norm. ...And I'm not saying it isn't the norm. I'm just saying that All Good Things doesn't actually tell us much, it just adds one more example to the pile.

Yes, Deanna maintained her surname after the wedding, buy why he had gotten his father's in first instance?

Maybe her father's name was originally Ian Andrew, and he simply added Lwaxana's surname to his own.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe her father's name was originally Ian Andrew, and he simply added Lwaxana's surname to his own.

Oh, that's a good thought.

 

[Elder Knight]

That just means that Beverly was fine with taking Jean-Luc's surname. It doesn't necessarily mean it was the norm. ...And I'm not saying it isn't the norm. I'm just saying that All Good Things doesn't actually tell us much, it just adds one more example to the pile.
...
.

If I recall it correctly, That also set up a gag surprise, when someone calls out "Captain Picard!" ... and Crusher responds.

 

[Skipper]

Maybe her father's name was originally Ian Andrew, and he simply added Lwaxana's surname to his own.

Uhm, I can concede that only because nothing on screen contradicts it, but let's be serious, an 80s tv show: of course in the mind of the writers she got husband's surname.

 

[Christopher]

Uhm, I can concede that only because nothing on screen contradicts it, but let's be serious, an 80s tv show: of course in the mind of the writers she got husband's surname.

Except we're talking about different creators at different times, who sometimes have conflicting ideas about the same thing. Deanna and Lwaxana were introduced first, and "Troi" was probably intended at the time to be a Betazoid surname. Ian's name was only established later, by different writers.

Indeed, the name "Ian Andrew Troi" or "Ian Troi" was never spoken onscreen. Lwaxana Troi was established in season 1. "The Child" at the start of season 2 had Deanna name her alien baby "Ian Andrew, after my father." And in "Dark Page," Deanna's father was addressed simply as "Ian." The only thing that establishes his surname as Troi is Deanna's personnel file in "Conundrum," and the original, pre-remastered version mistakenly called him Alex Troi. So really, we don't know what anyone, other than the graphic artists who created the personnel file, intended Ian's surname to be.

 

[captainkirk]

It would be nice to have some variety in naming conventions for alien characters. Mass Effect does this for some of its alien species. The quarians have a given name, family name, and starship name. The krogans have the clan name and then the given name. It's a way of establishing important aspects of their cultures and making their names more interesting.

 

[Silvercrest]

when Paris raises the idea, an annoyed Torres asks what century he thinks this is.

Still it's a little strange that he even raised the idea.

Paris made it clear throughout the show that he wants to bring back the 20th Century.