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Supernatural 3x11 "Mystery Spot" SPOILERS

This didn't do all that much for me. It probably didn't help that to this day TNG's "Cause and Effect" is my benchmark for these "reliving the day over" stories. Brannon gets a lot of flak but he constructed a brilliant episode that really was the first of its kind. I'd put The X-Files' "Monday" between C&E and this episode.

There were a few nice isolated moments(Sam/Dean echoing one another word for word was great, the hug at the end) and like last week the next to last act sparked my interest. Too bad the rest of the episode couldn't keep me as involved.

But two or three moments aren't sufficient to compensate for the rest of the hour. I get the sense that SN tends to treat these standalones as a means to an end in making a statement about Sam or Dean. It'd be nice if the episode could be solid while also touching on the ongoing character themes too.

I didn't care for the trickster last year but he was put to better effect here. And I'm sure some find the lighter tone SN has adopted this season to be a good thing but it does very little for me. It isn't the type of humor that appeals to me and it doesn't help that it undercuts some of the dramatic weight the show has generated.

I'd rate it as Average. This season has been so uneven with mediocre stuff like Magnificent Seven, Bedtime Stories etc and solid stuff like Fresh Blood, SN Xmas.
 
Dorian Thompson said:
This script was rushed through to get it done before the strike.
And it showed but that doesn't explain the fluctuations in quality the show has seen this season. This isn't the first very mediocre episode they've put out. I used to really enjoy the show but my interest has dwindled. I dare say I'm coming very close to becoming indifferent to the show. I'm finding that I'm watching Lost, Eli Stone, Jericho, Sarah Connor Chronicles long before SN.

I'm really not happy with the increase in the lighter tone and increase in fluffy pieces like Bad Day at Black Rock or Bedtime Stories and Dream a Little Dream of Me.

And I've never been crazy when Dean comes across as an annoying caricature which has happened more than I would have liked this year. And I'm tired of the writers using these episodes to get to one or two good reflective moments in the next to last act while basically doing a middling job in making the rest of the story interesting or fresh.

I'm certainly not averse to standalones like some but they need to be entertaining.

I suspect next week's episode(I avoid spoilers like the plague but heard it centers more strongly on the arc of the series) might be good. I'll wait and see but after the last two weeks I know that I'll be DVRing and watching Lost, Eli Stone, Jericho, Sarah Connor Chronicles and this week the CNN debate between Obama/Hillary before SN which I'll probably get around to on Sunday or Monday.
 
Next week is going to be the best episode of the season. They finished the script before they finished "Mystery Spot." They reversed the order because they didn't think they'd be back post strike this season.

I adored Bad Day at Black Rock and I like the humorous episodes in general, but I found Red Sky at Morning wanting and the Bela character as a whole just dreadful. She really makes the two main characters look silly and it's obvious that she's forced in there. As for her, the blame is at the door of Dawn Ostroff. She insisted on the second female character permanent addition. She insisted the character be young (in other words, no Samantha Ferris--CW viewers would never want a woman over 40 :rolleyes: ). She wanted a lighter tone as well. Now, she's very likely on the way out for next year. The higher ups are extremely unhappy with Ostroff. I strongly suspect that SN will return to its darker, sepia toned, less comedic on the whole tone next season when Ostroff is gone. She really stuck her nose in this year and she is not well liked. Listen to the commentary for "What is and What Should Never Be" from last year. The writers keep saying how "the network" wanted a sex scene here and there between Dean and the alternate universe girlfriend and they're laughing and saying throughout the commentary,"More boobs, more boobs, the network wants more boobs."

They're talking about Dawn Ostroff. :rolleyes: She tried to stick her nose in last year constantly. Kripke doesn't like her. As for Lost, it meanders as well. More and more and more questions isn't the formula for great storytelling either. Heroes season one did a much better job than Lost ever did.
 
Dorian Thompson said:I found Red Sky at Morning wanting and the Bela character as a whole just dreadful.
I actually like the Bela character. I think it is all due to Cohan bringing just the right tone to the character.
She wanted a lighter tone as well. Now, she's very likely on the way out for next year.
Well good riddance if she insisted on the lighter tone because for me it just hasn't worked. I like my humor a bit more subtle and I think it also hurts the dramatic tone of the show which can be really difficult for sf/f shows to generate.
As for Lost, it meanders as well.
True although I have to say the only season I was disappointed in was season two. I've pretty much enjoyed almost all of season one, and the bulk of season three really starting with "Enter 77" with one or two middling offerings and so far season four is off to a really strong start IMO. So looking at Lost vs SN I find the former far more entertaining on a regular basis than I've found the latter.
More and more and more questions isn't the formula for great storytelling either.
Lost and Heroes are really two series unto themselves. Of course they aren' episodic but they also tackle serialized storytelling in a unique format that isn't based on what I had come to associate with serials.

I love a really good mystery and Lost/Heroes has taken the mystery to the Nth degree. The style took me a while to get used to but I really enjoy it.

Lost for me is just more enjoyable-the epic storytelling, a wide array of characters, intriguingly fresh mysteries, the whole Twilight Zone bizarre feel, the way layers are continued to be peeled away to reveal even more intriguing elements, the various character dynamics, the thrill of wanting to tune in next week to see what will happen next, the great twists. A lot of this is absent from SN.

Now I don't expect every series to be that ambitious but I would like tighter writing and less predictable plots and for the writers to be better at pulling threads together. Lost uses its tools/characters etc that it introduces to better effect in subsequent storylines. It is overall just much better-plotted.

And yes the show piles on more questions to the point you almost drown in them but I can't deny that part of the show's appeal is seeing what the next new mystery will be and how down the road all of them will come together. The measure of a good mystery is does it pique your curiosity and then when the time is right is the payoff as satisfying as the build-up. Lost has succeeded for me on the first and it remains to be seen about the second part of that equation.

And tying in to my mystery analogy--I'm willing to approach Lost as if it were a massive mystery show and like any mystery story there are the various phases beginning with the set-up of the mystery or in this case mysteries followed by the characters trying to solve them and finally the climatic resolution. So I tend to view the first 3 or seasons as that beginning phase and that as we get closer in these final abbreviated seasons we'll start getting answers.
 
I think the 2 girls they brought on are great...bela rocks my world..she has a kickass bod. I didn't like how powerful the trickster was.
 
optimus1 said:
I think the 2 girls they brought on are great...bela rocks my world..she has a kickass bod. I didn't like how powerful the trickster was.

Well trickster's are demi-gods. They should be powerful. We're just lucky they just like having fun, instead of wanting to rule the world.
 
I like Bela but what I do not like is how every time she shows up Sam and Dean lose 75% of their IQ and act like morons. They're smart guys and I hate seeing them act so dumb around her. She's a liar and a thief and they fall for her shit all the time.
 
I prefer Ruby to Bela. I like how they've used Ruby. Bela would be all right, but like Jack Bauer says, they lose I.Q. points around her. Ostroff has the idea that female viewers like to see men "put in their place" by chicks simply because they're men. Nothing could be further from the truth. We've seen these two brothers sacrifice everything for what they do. They don't need to be put in their place. That's why Bela doesn't work for me.

I like seeing Pete and Don put in their place on "Mad Men" by the girls, but that's a carefully created, early 1960s environment where the women in the office have been mistreated and sexually harrassed by the men because of sexual politics specific to the era. It's situational. It's because of how the men in that situation act. Dean and Sam aren't those men.
 
Great ep... very funny to begin with, and then suddenly switches tack and gets very depressing in the end.

Slight OT, but Jensen Ackles was in Australia recently and appeared on recently returned Comedy Panel show "Good News Week". If you wanna see his segment, watch it here.

EDIT I'm assuming he's on a break due to the Writers Strike "Hiatus".
 
On the shape of this season, and how it compares to the same point as seasons 1 & 2..

Humor: Dorian can certainly attest I am not a big fan of "humor episodes". I much more prefer the humor to be just the banter between the guys and not really a part of the plot.

But Bad Day at Black Rock and this week's Mystery Spot, where the first humor episodes that really worked for me, with the characters staying in character for almost the full episode (one comment later about that).

And while the caricature of Dean early in the season was annoying, it was absolutely necessary for telling the story and not just lazy writing. The writers wanted to portray him as he was in the first 8 or so episodes of season one (the huge flirt, the huge horn dog, the laugh at danger, where nothing gets to him). All as a way to hide his own fears and to show Sam that he was ok and didn't need to save him.

It wasn't intended to be funny, he was supposed to be off, trying to hard.

Now you can certainly argue that Magnificent Seven wasn't a good episode (it really suffered from not being long enough to truly delve into both the bad guys and what is happening to the guys. And as such all three aspects suffered.

The new cast members.

Ruby: Well this character perfectly fits the universe and so far the story unfolding. She has been used sparingly and her presence in the episodes hasn't detracted from the stories being told. I think the actress could improve, but she isn't (in my opinion) any worse then the actress who played Meg (who I only think did a good job in her two last episodes).

Bela: It's funny, I think the actress has done the better job. I think much of her dialogue is very sharp. But I don't care for how much time she has been in episode (It certainly didn't help with her being the focus of the worst episode of the season, Red Sky at morning, even the writers think it was a huge failure). Nor do I think the guys become idiots when she is around. I have no problem with them getting out conned on occasion. I like for example in this weeks' episode she gave a legitimate reasons to be around and it showed the boys being careful around her.

But, and this is huge. With these characters of Dean and Sam, they would have never dealt with her again after her first appearance.

She shot Sam, in a situation where even setting down on a bed could be lethal. She knowingly stole a relic needed to keep Sam (and for that matter Dean) alive.

Dean would never, NEVER, allow Sam around someone who would be so cavalier with Sam's life. Ever...

The fact that she then sells them out to Gordon (without even warning them). Nope never, ever going to happen. Sam gets sold out at the roadhouse, and they never, ever go there again. They keep in contact with Ellen, but that is it.

Now to make it even worse, She has stolen something Dean feels is necessary to help keep Sam save from the demons who want him dead (especially since he won't be there to help). And Sam thinks he needs it to help save Dean.

Both of them are perfectly willing to kill to protect each other.

And the fact that we haven't yet seen them treat this as a truly serious situation (as of yet), really, really hurts the tone of the episodes she is in.

Now it is quite possible that they are going to delve deeper into this and treat it more seriously. But they should have in her 2nd appearance at the latest.

Atmosphere: Here is something that I felt season two really did much better then either of the other two seasons. From larger canvases to tell stories, to a darker tone for shooting scenes. This season the producers changed how they lensed the show, using sharper and more vibrant color palette for normal scenes and keeping the darker parts for the darker aspects of the show. I am still not convinced that this was a wise move. The show has also used smaller locations and sets (much more like season one). This is probably due to budget, I would assume. But I do have to give props for some very cheap but effective work in Dream a Little Dream (the forest painted Hotel corridor for example). The only thing that seems to have improved is the setup and productions of some of the gorier scenes.

Casting: Season one had some god awful casting. Luckily season 2 really, really improved on this. This season I think we have fallen a little backwards, but still far above season one.

Character Work: This is something that has improved each season. The actors and writers really seem to get the two leads and their connection to each other. I can't think of another show that I really feel the characters as much. Truly the absolute best thing this show does.

Acting: Easily season one was the worst. And while Season two had great acting, Jared goes through a couple episodes where he was drugged up on pain killers and it really hurt him (especially in his confrontation with Dean in Children Shouldn't Play with Dead things). Season three has been fairly strong, though I have had a few problems with Jensen playing Dean, when Dean is over compensating. I know he was supposed to be shown as trying to hard for funning, but it still bothered me in a couple scenes. But his normally strong performance, and the increase ability of Jared still make this season my favorite on the leads acting to date.

Now of course, everyone will see episodes in a different way, and like (or dislike) different aspects. But that is how I see each of the seasons to date. Both with highs and lows. And for the most part, I find this season to date is superior to season one, and its close to season two.

On how they mirror the A plot to the boys story. Which is what good story telling does. Season 1 was easily the worst at this point. Season two was a vast improvement, and I think season three has been the strongest.

Now this doesn't mean the final product is a good story. Take Bugs. They nicely tied the father/Son dynamic to Sam and John. But the whole episode is crap, besides the scenes between Sam & Dean talking about Dad.

Unfortunately for us, usually the mid point of the season to the end features some of the stronger elements of the show. And the writer's strike is going to seriously hurt this. Not only does it hit episodes that had to be rushed into production without as much polish as they would like, but it will also forces the writing staff back together after a long break. Not only are the going to have to try and churn out the scripts as fast as possible, but they are going to have to decide how to use the last 4 episodes they have. Do they go with what would have been planned. Or do they go all stand alone's, or do they try and build to some conclusion to hold us over to next season. Or do the completely rush to the end (of what they planned for season 3 (which according to Kripke isn't going to happen). They are going ot have to deal with a shorter Pilot season (so more actors will be pursuing pilot work and not as available for guest rolls). We will have cast and film crews having to rush the production side of things and hoping that they fall back into the grove.

So I will be very curious how the final four episodes come out. Not only in story content, but final product. And not just for this show, but for all shows, especially those with serial type story telling.
 
And Damn, I just watch the two clips for this week's new episode.

Is it Thursday yet. I can't wait.

I wish it was two hours of new material though (even if the repeat is a kick ass episode and ties into the new one).
 
I just hope the ending (and action) lives up to the build up. Its hard to do a lot with the small budget this show has.

But it looks like it will have lots of character bits in it, and that is the meat of this show.
 
Re: Supernatural 3x11 "Mystery Spot" SPOILERS

Just finally saw this episode too, and I have to say I loved it.

While the Groundhog Day thing has also been done everywhere (just like the "dream episode"), this one definitely kicked it up a notch by making have relevance to the characters and the arc. and it took my on twists and turns I was not expecting. The way it went from giggles (even at things you really shouldn't be laughing at : "Do these tacos taste funny to you?") to creepy to downright sad was fascinating and very affecting. Again the lesson was kind of obvious, but I felt they got there in a much more interesting way than last time.
 
Re: Supernatural 3x11 "Mystery Spot" SPOILERS

lvsxy808

Glad to see that you have a chance to watch these episodes. Can't wait to see what you think about the rest of the season (both good and bad). Hopefully you'll be able to catch up to the 4th season which so far is really blowing me away, quality wise.

Season 3 is a bit of mixed bad, for myself, it started fairly soft, but in it also has (out of its 16 episodes) 5 episodes that I think are absolute classics for this series, so go figure. 3 of which you haven't got to yet, so hopefully you enjoy them. Also curious to see what you think of Ghostfacers........
 
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