This video should be required viewing for ANY of the modelers who work on Star Trek.
Starship Navigation Lights 'BLINKEYS' Demystified!
- Thread starter Kamen Rider Blade
- Start date
This video should be required viewing for ANY of the modelers who work on Star Trek.
He's a bit inconsistent with his application. If he was following the aircraft/sea navigation motif he displays then he should not have added red/green nav lights to the TMP nacelle ends, IMHO. He had better restraint on his TOS model.
Why Not?
Is it not beneficial for navigational safety to know which Nacelle is Port & which Nacelle is StarBoard at range?
It is not beneficial since red/green nav lights on the TMP nacelle ends can be confused for a ship approaching inverted relative to your ship. Red on port is the same as red on starboard when inverted.
If you look critically at the TOS or TMP Enterprise's lighting you'll unfortunately see that the red/green nav lights are visible both front and aft which does not help with navigation safety since it can be misinterpreted to be always approaching upright or inverted relative to your ship. Proper navigation lights would not have the red/green navlights visible from the aft quarter.
There probably is an in-universe reason for the way the TOS/TMP lights are setup but it won't be for simple visual navigational safety, IMHO. The overall light placement is probably more for other ship's navigation computers to figure out ship orientation and identification. YMMV.
“If you look critically at the TOS or TMP Enterprise's lighting you'll unfortunately see that the red/green nav lights are visible both front and aft which does not help with navigation safety since it can be misinterpreted to be always approaching upright or inverted relative to your ship.”
IIRC this is not true for the Jefferies/Datin 11-foot TOS model, which has white lights on the underside of the green and red nav lights for exactly this reason- to signal orientation. Unsurprising as Jefferies was a pilot and would be well aware of the problem you note. These ventral position lights would be analogous to the rear-facing white position lights on an aircraft’s wingtips.
IIRC this is not true for the Jefferies/Datin 11-foot TOS model, which has white lights on the underside of the green and red nav lights for exactly this reason- to signal orientation. Unsurprising as Jefferies was a pilot and would be well aware of the problem you note. These ventral position lights would be analogous to the rear-facing white position lights on an aircraft’s wingtips.
I'd argue that isn't enough to differentiate. The underside white lights are not visible if you are approaching from slightly above the 11' Enterprise which gives you the same problem of not knowing if the Enterprise is approaching upright or inverted relative to your ship.
You'll note that on aircraft the red/green nav lights are only visible from the front and sides but not from the rear. There would be no confusion on approach.
If you can’t see the white lights on the saucer, but you see the red and green, then you know the orientation. It’s has to be tipping its dorsal side towards you. And in that case you will know whether it is coming at you or or not based on whether red is right.
Actually if you can only see the red and green lights you will not know the orientation. You will not be able to tell if the Enterprise is inverted or "upright" and therefore whether she is approaching or leaving.
Added images below to help visualize this problem.
What irks me is, over the years, I've seen the occasional otherwise beautiful artwork (like in the SOTL calendars, for example), or rendered animations, of Klingon/Romulan/other alien ships with the same red/green blinkies as Federation ships emitting off their hulls. Of course it makes sense that all Starfleet vessels would establish red/green as port/starboard formation light standards, as they derive from Earth/Human nautical tradition, but there is absolutely no reason why any other non-Human race, Federation or otherwise, should have the same lighting conventions on their native planetary space vehicles. Why not purple and yellow? Why not pink and blue? Why not colors in the non-visible (to Humans) part of the light spectrum?
It's not a commonly occurring thing, thankfully. It just gnaws at me when I see it.
It's not a commonly occurring thing, thankfully. It just gnaws at me when I see it.
Actually if you can only see the red and green lights you will not know the orientation. You will not be able to tell if the Enterprise is inverted or "upright" and therefore whether she is approaching or leaving.
Added images below to help visualize this problem.
Maybe I am dense but, in your right image, you wouldn’t see the red and green lights. You’d see the white lights on the underside of the saucer. Am I mistaken? There are no red and green lights on the underside of the TOS saucer, are there? Or, if those little lights on the sides of the saucer are visible, they are there WITH the white lights, telling the orientation.
https://3dscifi.com/ericimages/enterprise/FamousAngleMojoShipAndStars01.png
In both left and right images, the Enterprise's primary hull is obscuring the ventral p/s white navigation lights on the underside and you are only seeing the top of the saucer with the red and green navigation lights.
Edit: Added image for clarification.
I checked Tallguy's FX library and the upper/lower dome lights aren't always on in the episodes. But if they were always on, then you could potentially use the partially obscured lower dome light to determine if she's inverted.. If the nacelle domes were lit all the time then that would be another way to determine if she is approaching or departing.
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And all of this is shot out of the water from TMP on...
I don't think it worked even from TOS. I think the whole red/green lights being visible from front and back is just simplicity for the audience but has issues when critically examined. YMMV.
Edit: I'm not knocking the designers and certainly in-universe there are explanations to how the lights work. It just wouldn't be following an aircraft/watercraft navigation setup.
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Of course it would work in universe, for the reasons you stated above. The adjustable red (6200-7500 Å) and green (5800-4900Å) frequencies, and the timing of the on-off cycles, would communicate whatever information was needed.
BTW, I see what you mean from your improved images, but for the same reasons stated above (the ability in universe to clearly see the ship’s lights even from a great distance) it would be clear from the shape of the lights (dome-up or dome-down) whether the ship was upside down or not.
BTW, I see what you mean from your improved images, but for the same reasons stated above (the ability in universe to clearly see the ship’s lights even from a great distance) it would be clear from the shape of the lights (dome-up or dome-down) whether the ship was upside down or not.
As stated earlier, the red and green lights being visible both front and aft on the TOS Enterprise does not help with navigation safety. It would need additional lights like the top and bottom dome lights but those are not always on as they are not navigation lights (but should be). Then again, if an observer ship can make out the shape of the lights then making out the shape and orientation of the ship would be pretty easy for it. Lights wouldn't even be necessary, IMHO.
People always seem to forget the blinking light (and its presumed mate) on the outboard side of the secondary hull, just forward of the flight deck door. You know, the one that TOR-R implies in 'Court Martila' is the ion pod.
light is on*
light is off*
And, FWIW, maritime navigation laws also mandate the red and green be visible only from certain angles. You want to know what is the preferred direction of travel is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Propmec50.PNG
The way TOS did the lights was for visual flavor but a real system would need—as @blssdwlf indicates—to be informative from every viewing angle.
*edit to add: trekcore apparently has killed the DVD renders so here are newer (larger img) links:
light is on
light is off
light is on*
light is off*
And, FWIW, maritime navigation laws also mandate the red and green be visible only from certain angles. You want to know what is the preferred direction of travel is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Propmec50.PNG
The way TOS did the lights was for visual flavor but a real system would need—as @blssdwlf indicates—to be informative from every viewing angle.
*edit to add: trekcore apparently has killed the DVD renders so here are newer (larger img) links:
light is on
light is off
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The refit Enterprise and the -A have more rapidly blinking navigation lights that can be seen from the rear of the ship, while most of the lights that can be seen from the front blink slower, or not at all.
The Enterprise-D too has specific lights that can only be seen from the stern to help with navigation.
The Enterprise-D too has specific lights that can only be seen from the stern to help with navigation.
“The way TOS did the lights was for visual flavor but a real system would need—as @blssdwlf indicates—to be informative from every viewing angle.”
That’s not accurate. Sensors as finely tuned as those portrayed in TOS could read small changes in the wavelengths of the light being broadcast. As I said above, in universe “The adjustable red (6200-7500Å) and green (5800-4900Å) frequencies, and the timing of the on-off cycles, would communicate whatever information was needed.” As a rigid body in three-dimensional, free space, the spacecraft only has six mechanical degrees of freedom of movement - three perpendicular axes by surging forward/backward, heaving up/down, and swaying left/right, combined with rotation about three perpendicular axes of yaw (normal), pitch (transverse), and roll (longitudinal). It would thus ostensibly only need six frequencies - ie three reds and three greens - to communicate three horizontal and three vertical changes. After a set time interval preceding and following a course change, it would return to its “straight on” pattern and frequency.
Fine tuning such a system even further, it would be possible if desired - by frequency and timing alone - to communicate relative heading through the 41000 some square degrees of the celestial sphere.
As for obstruction, the US FAA is rather permissive as to obstruction of position lights on aircraft, probably because obstruction beyond a certain point, within the range at which the lights must be viewable, wouldn’t result in a collision.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-30B.pdf
That’s not accurate. Sensors as finely tuned as those portrayed in TOS could read small changes in the wavelengths of the light being broadcast. As I said above, in universe “The adjustable red (6200-7500Å) and green (5800-4900Å) frequencies, and the timing of the on-off cycles, would communicate whatever information was needed.” As a rigid body in three-dimensional, free space, the spacecraft only has six mechanical degrees of freedom of movement - three perpendicular axes by surging forward/backward, heaving up/down, and swaying left/right, combined with rotation about three perpendicular axes of yaw (normal), pitch (transverse), and roll (longitudinal). It would thus ostensibly only need six frequencies - ie three reds and three greens - to communicate three horizontal and three vertical changes. After a set time interval preceding and following a course change, it would return to its “straight on” pattern and frequency.
Fine tuning such a system even further, it would be possible if desired - by frequency and timing alone - to communicate relative heading through the 41000 some square degrees of the celestial sphere.
As for obstruction, the US FAA is rather permissive as to obstruction of position lights on aircraft, probably because obstruction beyond a certain point, within the range at which the lights must be viewable, wouldn’t result in a collision.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-30B.pdf
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