Yes, yes it is.
Indeed, especially when kid characters don't act like adults. Good grief, I wasn't the only child who lied about stupid shit, was I?
Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x14 - "Crossroads"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I wonder why they went with the Dauntless, a ship that shouldn’t logically exist and that has always been pretty ugly.
My theory is that they went with the Dauntless because any angle where the nacelles are hidden makes it look kind of like a star destroyer.
it is very star destroyer looking. Especially the shots of it this week chasing the normal looking "good guy" ship Protostar. Throw in the speeder chase on Hoth, baby Yoda, and this was the most Star Wars-esque episode of Star Trek yet.
I think I need my eyes checked. I definitely don't see a Star Destroyer...
Or simply because the "fake" Dauntless from "Hope and Fear" just looked cool and it was a nice shout-out to the original VOY.
Either a "real" Dauntless was already on the books and Arturis just stole its basic shape (which would explain how none of the Voyager crew seem particularly surprised by its general appearance) or Starfleet decided it was a practical design and decided to copy it.
Iindeed, since Voyager was able to reverse-engineer the slipstream drive in relatively short order ("Timeless"), it stands to reason that Starfleet should be able to create its own version of the ship itself...
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Obviously the Hagemans liked the Dauntless and wanted to use it in their own show. There really isn't anything more to it than that.
i've seen a lot of complaints about the way that the kids "didn't just come out and tell starfleet what is going on", and i would liek to point that failure to communicate is a common trope. not just in childrens shows, but in programming for adult age viewers as well. and it is a real world problem as well. it is a common trope in kids media because it is a common experience for children. likewise non-childrens media uses it a lot not just because it makes for drama, but because it is a common experience for adults. Media tends to exaggerate the emotions involved for drama and time, but failure to communicate, and jumping to conclusions, is a very common thing. (i'm a teacher, i've seen it often with both students and teaching staff)
jankom was ready to tell, but the Dauntless's Doctor pushed jankom's personal self-image buttons and distracted him. (the whole show we've seen that he's touchy about self image and reputation, so being dismissed and told his name meant "runt" was certainly going to set him off. especially after he'd built up the image of federation tellarites as special.)
Dal was ramping up to it while struggling with hero worship turning him tongue tied (a common thing with kids and adults), before being interrupted. while you can question his decision to run away after the denobulan was brought over, he made a choice that a lot of people would. to avoid a confrontation where he'd be accused, yelled at, and arrested before he had a chance to get a word in.
Gwn was ready to start in, but then found out that the starfleet ship had her father, with a friendly relationship between him and them, which immediately made her suspect that they weren't going to listen.
the kids didn't really get a chance to even introduce themselves, much less segueway into a discussion of why they are trying to get to starfleet and what is going on. they can't exactly just walk up to a strange starfleet officer and go "there is an alien weapon on this ship i have that will destroy the federation". at best the starfleeters are going to ignore him as a crazy person, at worst they're going to assume he's making a threat, arrest him, and go to check out his ship and stop the weapon.. and pretty much every response inbetween tends to end with "then the starfleet crew goes to investigate the protostar, and triggers the weapon."
the only way that they'll be able to get across the danger without coming across as either insane or hostile, is to introduce themselves, explain how they learned of starfleet and explain their recent history, then explain what the weapon is and how they learned of it. which is something that will require a lot more than a few sentences to a stranger they just happen to stumble over.
prediction wise, i'm guessing that the kids will end up using Okana as a messenger, telling him their story (and perhaps providing non-digital copies of various evidence, like photos and printed files) and dropping him off somewhere that he can be found by Adm. janeway. but before that the Diviner will regain enough of his memories to remember what his mission was, and will start manipulating the crew of the dauntless into pursuit of the protostar, likely by 'confirming' the story that janeway already suspects.
is it a trope? yeah. are tropes inherently bad? no.
jankom was ready to tell, but the Dauntless's Doctor pushed jankom's personal self-image buttons and distracted him. (the whole show we've seen that he's touchy about self image and reputation, so being dismissed and told his name meant "runt" was certainly going to set him off. especially after he'd built up the image of federation tellarites as special.)
Dal was ramping up to it while struggling with hero worship turning him tongue tied (a common thing with kids and adults), before being interrupted. while you can question his decision to run away after the denobulan was brought over, he made a choice that a lot of people would. to avoid a confrontation where he'd be accused, yelled at, and arrested before he had a chance to get a word in.
Gwn was ready to start in, but then found out that the starfleet ship had her father, with a friendly relationship between him and them, which immediately made her suspect that they weren't going to listen.
the kids didn't really get a chance to even introduce themselves, much less segueway into a discussion of why they are trying to get to starfleet and what is going on. they can't exactly just walk up to a strange starfleet officer and go "there is an alien weapon on this ship i have that will destroy the federation". at best the starfleeters are going to ignore him as a crazy person, at worst they're going to assume he's making a threat, arrest him, and go to check out his ship and stop the weapon.. and pretty much every response inbetween tends to end with "then the starfleet crew goes to investigate the protostar, and triggers the weapon."
the only way that they'll be able to get across the danger without coming across as either insane or hostile, is to introduce themselves, explain how they learned of starfleet and explain their recent history, then explain what the weapon is and how they learned of it. which is something that will require a lot more than a few sentences to a stranger they just happen to stumble over.
prediction wise, i'm guessing that the kids will end up using Okana as a messenger, telling him their story (and perhaps providing non-digital copies of various evidence, like photos and printed files) and dropping him off somewhere that he can be found by Adm. janeway. but before that the Diviner will regain enough of his memories to remember what his mission was, and will start manipulating the crew of the dauntless into pursuit of the protostar, likely by 'confirming' the story that janeway already suspects.
is it a trope? yeah. are tropes inherently bad? no.
Flip it upside down. From the front angle I'd say there's a resemblance. Rear not so much of course. Plus the Dauntless was designed to be a little menacing, like a destroyer.
Never liked it.Or simply because the "fake" Dauntless from "Hope and Fear" just looked cool and it was a nice shout-out to the original VOY.
at least they forewent the original nonsensical registry.
It looks like a whale, or a Leviathan.
Sorry, don't see much in the Star Destroyer range but that's me. The shape is too hunched.
The producers have gone on record saying that they wanted a ship capable of quantum slipstream that could rival the Protostar. Voyager took detailed scans of the ship, detailed enough to create a slipstream that almost worked, but had trouble maintaining trajectory.
The ship’s original designer on VOY, Rick Sternbach, said this was likely due to the Dauntless’s specific (and strange) hull shape being critical to quantum slipstream as a viable means of travel.
Hence, Starfleet reverse engineered the scans they had to create their own version of the Dauntless. According to the Admiral’s log from Janeway released a couple of weeks ago, they named their version Dauntless in recognition of where it came from, and as a solemn reminder of the mistakes they aimed to return to the Delta Quadrant to correct.
So in short, they did put thought into it.
The ship’s original designer on VOY, Rick Sternbach, said this was likely due to the Dauntless’s specific (and strange) hull shape being critical to quantum slipstream as a viable means of travel.
Hence, Starfleet reverse engineered the scans they had to create their own version of the Dauntless. According to the Admiral’s log from Janeway released a couple of weeks ago, they named their version Dauntless in recognition of where it came from, and as a solemn reminder of the mistakes they aimed to return to the Delta Quadrant to correct.
So in short, they did put thought into it.
We know that version 1 of Quantum Slipstream (as used by Arturis Dauntless) exerted quantum stresses on VOY's hull... which is why the ship couldn't maintain Slipstream for more than 1 hour.
That version of Quantum Slipstream was also maxed out at 300 Ly's per hour (more cruising speed was equivalent to about 29.7 Ly's per day.
But the premise suggested that while the Dauntless hull geometry was definitely different compared to most SF ships... it was also suggested that VOY lacked sufficiently strong structural integrity to survive longer trips in Slipstream - which would be a technical issue to overcome for a differently shaped ship - aka, stronger structural integrity generation.
Then the crew managed to redo the Quantum Slipstream about 4 months later ('Timeless' episode) where they created a Quantum Matrix, integrated Borg technology and Benamite Crystals into the thing.
This version of the drive didn't have issues with quantum stresses being exerted on the hull, however, there was a phase variance issue which presented itself 17 seconds into the flight (VOY's sensors and computer weren't fast enough to map the Quantum Slipstream threshold as it was forming - hence why they sent the Delta Flyer ahead to map the threshold as it was forming and send phase corrections back manually - which didn't work entirely... resulting in the ship speding only about 1 minute in the Quantum Slipstream and traversing 10 000 Ly's in that time.
So, version 2 of QS drive was much faster than version 1, and version 2 also sported the use of Benemite crystals which were never mentioned as something that was used in version 1.
So, it seems Quantum Slipstream (version 1) can work with different hull designs, but they would need more powerful structural integrity field generation to make it work.
In this sense I guess Starfleet just figured it would be easier to recreated the Dauntless in their own image as that design already worked with Quantum Slipstream - at the very least, they'd have less issues testing/using the drive on a regular basis like this and then perfecting it for use on other ships.
Its also unclear which version of Quantum Slipstream is used onboard the Dauntless... is it the v1 or v2.
I think the producers of Prodigy mentioned the ship will be using QS drive sparingly due to Benamite crystals... suggesting use of Version 2 of the drive (10 000 Ly's per minute - roughly).
Clear differences in speed between the two versions of the drive... clear differences between internal implementation of the Quantum core (on top of the Warp core), use of Benamite crystals in the second version (vs no mention of this resource onboard Arturis Dauntless, or that it was needed - my guess is this resource was added later on as part of revisions to the drive if it didn't exist prior).
There are clear differences in canon (mentioned on screen) between the two drives and how they affected VOY... so its not baseless.
The only thing I'm doing is pointing out those differences based on what was mentioned when the technology was first encountered, vs the second usage of the tech by the crew (who re-engineered the drive) and trying to find the best way to explain it that fits in-universe.
Well argued! Allthough Dal did have a shot to bring up the weapon when Frex brought it up himself, but with his experiences it's understandable I guess. As viewers, we also get used to (some of) those kids actually usually being quite competent.
Dropping off Okona at some point would make sense.
Agreed. It's an extremely common trope, and more than that, it's a very common experience for children who don't feel heard. How many adults take children seriously? How many adults pause to watch and observe from a child's point of view, and the way they communicate? How many adults feel heard all the time?
Drives me insane.
Voyager’s QS drive definitely moved at the speed of the plot, from memory there was only a few seconds of difference in the amount of time they spent in the slipstream in the original timeline where they crashed, and the altered timeline where Harry’s calculations saved them. Yet that appeared to make all the difference between being on the edge of the Alpha Quadrant and still being at least 20,000 light years deep in the Delta Quadrant (going by the later jump in Dark Frontier).
Technically the TOS Enterprise must have had a superior warp drive to Voyager’s given how it was able to zip around the galaxy. Again, speed of the plot.
Technically the TOS Enterprise must have had a superior warp drive to Voyager’s given how it was able to zip around the galaxy. Again, speed of the plot.
Ok.. I have it all figured out. What they need to do is have halo-Janeway record a halo-message and then one of the kids jump out into space (with a suit, of course) and let the Dauntless pick him/her up while they are in persuit. They they can explain what is going on and have halo-Janeway back up the story. Brilliant! You're welcome! 
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