Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

[intrinsical]

Leveling speed isn't an issue for me. Its more of the lack of enough missions that bother me a lot more. As a player, I shouldn't be able to blow through every single mission in under a month.

 

[syberghost]

Levelling speed goes back to the content problem. Unless they force people to grind, the only way to slow levelling is put more content in each level.

 

[Scout101]

Honestly, they force you to grind anyway, so it would be nice if the missions were slowed down enough to only be *half* the points for each promotion. That way, you had to do some of the exploration, dailies, fleet actions, whatever at each level to advance.

Just removing all the XP that the DOFF system gets you would probably be enough to slow it back down some. Leave in the DOFF point system, but stop applying it to rank as well. Since it came out, I've leveled a couple characters almost from 0 to 50 (have to get to a minimum level to start DOFF) just using DOFF system. One character hasn't left the vicinity of the SOL system since he qualified to start DOFFing, and is a VA now. A little broken there...

If they slow it down, at least you don't fly through the missions and have all the characters sitting at end grinding to no particular gain. Before there were all these other options, it was at least a LITTLE slower on my first character, I remember having to look around a little and find defend/patrol missions to try and get those last couple points to make rank. Now you can hit VA without running any missions but the tutorial pretty much.

For a game with no particular endgame content, seems funny they want you to get there so fast. Spread some of the grind out so that you always have to grind a little, or can try different ones, rather than NO grind, and then nothing BUT grind...

 

[syberghost]

Just removing all the XP that the DOFF system gets you would probably be enough to slow it back down some.

QFT. Some people have leveled all the way to 50 via DOFFs.

 

[Scout101]

I did it with my KDF toon, for sure, as well as a Fed SCI. Heck, didn't play a single KDF mission but the tutorial until LVL 50, I don't think. I then went back and checked out the half-dozen that are unique to KDF just to see what they had. STILL haven't played all the missions for that character (they just repacked the FEs for the KDF), and she's been LVL 50 for probably a year...

Before all the extras, just seemed like it actually took at least a LITTLE while to level. they just keep adding stuff worth more points, and don't add up that you can hit endgame in a long weekend at this point, and then there's not much to do. Grind for DOFFS, which is just a thing in and of itself, not much help outside the system, or you can try and grind for MK XII gear in STFs, but there's nowhere to use it but to grind MORE STFs, so kinda pointless, and the odds are so terrible anyway that it's an effort in frustration.

 

[Hanover Fiste]

You know what I miss? Diplomacy points that were actually attainable. My first toon from back when the game first went live has transwarp locations all over the map. Now I grind for months and have nothing but ESD.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

but will need to do some serious grinding to get the remaining couple hundred c-points needed for the Thunderchild.

You know you can like 1500 or so zen which can be converted into close to 1200 or so C-points if you do the Netflix 1 month trial and if you cancel your account before the free month is up you can do it without spending money.

And it works through paypal so you don't have to give out credit card info.

Where is this offer posted and if I do register for the free promo, when would I get the c-points - right away or at the end of the one month? Curious to know if I was to register this weekend, if I would have the c-points to spend on the ship sale. If they offer the c-points as soon as you register, could I cancel the subscription right after?

They have a link to in at the forums along with advertisements for other free zen offers.

I managed to get the zen the same day I registered it just took a few hours to go through.

After that you have to convert the zen to c-points which you should be able to do if you have merged accounts.

If it says something about needing a level 10 character try making new alt real quick thats what made it work for me.

 

[Harvey]

At least your transwarp abilities appeared for that character. On my Klingon toon, only the first two transwarp locations are unlocked, despite surpassing 100,000 marauding points.

 

[Noname Given]

The fact that they have not even released an exact date when the Season 6 will come out does still worry me a bit.
Another example that things are not (yet) alright at Cryptic.

Software Development Rule #1: Whatever schedules you have planned is only valid on the day you planned the schedule. Quite simply, there is no way to foresee complications that can occur when you try to add new stuff to an already huge software system.

I know City of Heroes and Champs Online already have a similar Superbase system. Modifying the Suberbase system to create Fleet base is a natural low hanging fruit that the STO team can bring to STO. To convert superbase to fleetbase in 6 months is a challenging but not impossible schedule IF the team did not try to be too fanciful and pack too many new features into the fleetbase system. Anyway, its Software Engineering 101 to categorize each new feature as absolutely required, good to have or nice to have. If the project is behind schedule, the good to haves and nice to haves can be cut from the schedule.

My guess is, the fleetbase system is nearly complete but requires a few devs from the core engine team to help with the finishing touches.

However, the basic problem still remains - the team's hands are still tied even after Season 6 is launched as they will have to worry about Season 7 which is scheduled for end of the year. Very likely, this 80-20 split will continue for the rest of the year.

You mentioned City of Heroes in your earlier post..it makes me sometimes wish that the people who run that game would also run STO(They do not seem to have trouble of making meaningful and even fresh content to that game, even though the game is years old already..)

Most MMO devs agree that a new MMO requires a development time of three to four years. City of Heroes had close to five years of development time and as a result was launched as a very well polished game. Cryptic only started working on STO largely from scratch in July 2008 and the game was launched in February 2010. That is HALF the required time and part of the reason why I did not start playing STO from day one despite being a hardcore trekkie and MMO player. STO was born prematurely and even today the lack of polish still shows.

Don't get me wrong, I think most of the blame lies with Paramount and Atari in forcing STO to launch prematurely. In fact, I think Cryptic has done an amazing job in churning out so much content in just 1.5 years.

Where do you get your facts?

I ask becuse City of Heroes had about 3 years of development prior to launch. Cryptic was form in 2000, started CoH development around 2001 and released it in early 2004. (and I was one of the first 300 to close beta that game in 2003.)

Also, while CoH does have a Supergroup base system - Champions Online does not. CO's 'Hideouts' are about the same as visiting your Bridge in STO - there's really not much to them.

Lastly, te CO/STO/Neverwinter engine IS NOT ythe same engine they left to Paragon Studios after selling te CoH IP lock stock and barrel to NCSoft in 2007 so it could get operating capital to go off and make 'Marvel Universe Online' and partner with Microsoft <--- The deal was cut short pretty quick into development when MS asked point blank "MUO will be able to compete directly with World of Waercraft, and will see similar sub numbers, right?" And Cryptic responded honestly with "No."

They then bought the Champions IP ffrom Hero Games - atarted re-tooling the work dine on MUO into that - and went looking for someone to fund development - found Atari willing - and got bought by Atari in 2008 for 20 million.

But, in the end - there was/is no pre-esiting code for the Starbase and Fleet Advancement system - it's new tech nbeing coded into their new engine.

As for CoH and Paragon - IMO, after a promising start they' ve gone downhill fast in thatParagon still seems to like to reuse the same maps over and over (something I'm glad Cryptic hasn't done to much of in STO) - and it's pretty telling that after working a year and a half on a paid expansion (which launched quite late and sold so well they went F2P soon after and te expansion was offered 'free' to those that decide to subscribe); I'm quite happy that Paragon is Paragon and seperate from Cryptic. NCSoft hoped to use Paragon to create other MMOs; but I've yet to see NCSofyt follow though on that.

Given the size of Cryptic's team (which thankfully PWE ios at least investing and expanding, unlike Atari who instituted a hiring freeze and didn't allow them to backfill positions after putting them up for sale); I think they've done an okay job since the aquisition (although I don't agree with everything they'vce done for F2P) and are getting their feet under them; but, the Fleet Starbase and Fleet Advancement system is a big projct and hardly 'low hanging fruit'.

It remains to be seen just how well they'll implement it - but it looks pretty nice so far on Tribble.

 

[Amaris]

You know what I miss? Diplomacy points that were actually attainable. My first toon from back when the game first went live has transwarp locations all over the map. Now I grind for months and have nothing but ESD.

I finally got all four of my Transwarp locations. Of course, I just got the last one 3 weeks ago, so yeah, it took a while. That's even using those skill point bonuses I kept getting.

 

[intrinsical]

In all honesty, I am simply a fan of Cryptic who has been observing the company's high points and low points since 2003. And all I have said is based on my observation as an outsider with totally no insider knowledge. Everything I say is hopefully well-reasoned speculation on my part.

Where do you get your facts?

I ask becuse City of Heroes had about 3 years of development prior to launch. Cryptic was form in 2000, started CoH development around 2001 and released it in early 2004. (and I was one of the first 300 to close beta that game in 2003.)

I started the clock in 2000, when Cryptic was formed whereas you started the clock in 2001. That is how I came up with the "close to five years" statement. Even with your estimate of 3 years, that is still twice the amount of development time Star Trek Online had. Regardless if CoH was developed in 3 years or 5 years, my point still stands: STO had an extremely short development time for an MMO and as a result the game was not as polished as it could have been on launch day.

Also, while CoH does have a Supergroup base system - Champions Online does not. CO's 'Hideouts' are about the same as visiting your Bridge in STO - there's really not much to them.

Lastly, te CO/STO/Neverwinter engine IS NOT ythe same engine they left to Paragon Studios after selling te CoH IP lock stock and barrel to NCSoft in 2007 so it could get operating capital to go off and make 'Marvel Universe Online' and partner with Microsoft <--- The deal was cut short pretty quick into development when MS asked point blank "MUO will be able to compete directly with World of Waercraft, and will see similar sub numbers, right?" And Cryptic responded honestly with "No."

I have never professed to have an insider's knowledge that the three games are running the same engine. I am a system software developer by profession and have played all three games for at least 6 months. From my observation, I can say that the three games are much more similar than dissimilar. Even if the games do not share the same code base, there is a huge degree of reuse in terms of software design and implementation details. For instance, all three games share very similar instancing, foundry, avatar customization technology, both CoH and CO have a very similar powerset, power slotting and travel-power system.

As a result I mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that Champions Online and Star Trek Online inherited a lot of base code from City of Heroes. My goal was to defend Cryptic's decision to add Fleetbases to STO as they could "re-use some code and ideas" they had from City of Heroes and thus cut down on development time for Fleetbases. Now, I am worried Cryptic may have bitten off more than it can chew and season 6 schedules are indeed slipping...

 

[intrinsical]

Anyone interested in knowing what new ships will be released in season 6 should listen to this podcast.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/wordpress/archives/106

A quick summary:
Season 6 is all about end-game. The challenges would be tougher, so fleet bases are designed to upgrade fleet member's gear for the new challenges. The upgrades include new fleet ships, fleet weapons, fleet armor, etc..

A properly upgraded fleet base will be able to build fleet ships. There will be a total of around 45 fleet ships to choose from (this count includes both fed and kdf ships). The majority of the new fleet ships will be retrofits of current T2 to T4 ships with 10% more hull, 10% more shields, 10 console slots (current T5 ships have 9 console slots) and a new "sexy" fleet hull material. One caveat. These fleet ships does not come with special consoles that C-store variants have. So you will still have to buy the C-store ship if you want special consoles for your shiny new fleet ship.

* 1000-day veterans will likely be rewarded with a brand new ship class.

 

[Cyke101]

Question, folks: what's the term for a player who joins a team (in this case, an STF) and then simply parks his ship to try to reap the rewards without contributing in any way to the team?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

AFKer or jerk? Both works.

 

[Cyke101]

AFKer or jerk? Both works.

Perhaps not an AFKer, because when I asked him what he was doing, he promptly responded that he was monitoring *me* to see how I was failing at my job. Even though he wasn't helping our other three teammates or shooting at anything, period. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

 

[syberghost]

AFKer or jerk? Both works.

Perhaps not an AFKer, because when I asked him what he was doing, he promptly responded that he was monitoring *me* to see how I was failing at my job. Even though he wasn't helping our other three teammates or shooting at anything, period. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

Both then. If you're the group leader, don't be afraid to kick. If not, don't be afraid to ask the leader to kick, and to drop group yourself if he won't.

 

[Scout101]

Useful advice, other than the fact that you can't do that in STFs. People have been complaining that there's basically NOTHING you can do to help yourself when you get a AKFer in a run, other than drop and take the 1-hour leaver penalty yourself.

Can block that guy so you don't end up together again, but the developers have gone in favor of the farmers over the actual players on this one.

There needs to be SOMETHING to limit this practice. It's a 5-man team, so maybe don't give any rewards if they don't contribute at least 5-10% of total damage (maybe less if they do more healing/crowd control, gotta be a way to measure actual participation other than just DPS, but it's easiest.) Even a weak ship doing crowd control ought to be responsible for at least 5% of total damage, no?

KIck vote (with other 4 all having to vote yes) would be easiest, but there's potential to abuse it and kick people to have a better shot at the bag at end. Maybe implement the kick vote system, but you CAN'T kick the person if they've contributed 10% total damage? That way you've definitely gotten contribution from that player, so means they shouldn't have a valid reason to kick.

Or if they don't respawn within 15 seconds of being eligible? Or if they stay within a X km radius of the spawn location? Keyboard is idle for more than 1 minute without moving character? Gotta be some triggers they can put in to at LEAST make the player ineligible for the end reward (plus dilithium), making it not worth the time to AKF, and meaning more stuff to split between the people that beat the mission despite the short numbers...

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Don't get it anyway why someone would sit in front of his screen watching others to do the work for him. Every bit of contribution would get you the loot that much faster, even if your DPS totally sucks. It's still DPS and you could try to tank damage away from others who can DPS... Those guys sabotage themselves by not helping.

 

[Cyke101]

Thanks for the advice/support guys. I should have asked the team leader to kick him. I quit the team because I didn't want my blood pressure to rise over a piece of Borg salvage (thankfully, with the next STF team I joined the hour later, we won the optional mission and I made up for that previous disaster loot-wise).

How can I block the guy so that we can't team up again?

 

[Scout101]

you can just right-click his name and hit Ignore Player. Not sure that prevents it entirely, but if you're using EliteSTF to form a team, you'll never see him come up to join. If you're not making the team, someone else could still add, though.

And even team leader can't kick in a STF. Regular mission team-up, yeah. Maybe even fleet actions, but not STF.