Some of us must be forgetting to put on our hate goggles.
Spoilers Star Trek Discovery Season 1: Overall Review Thread
- Thread starter cultcross
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Some of us must be forgetting to put on our hate goggles.
Mine are in the mail.
I'm a freelance videographer who barely makes enough money to eat. I couldn't afford them.
Hate goggles are too expensive.
Hate goggles are too expensive.
I just go done with an internship and still recovering. It sucks. Let me send you some Ramen goggles instead.
Ramen googles are a wonderful thing. I'm even wearing mine as we speak.
Honestly, coming off the season finale, which was terrible, I'm less inclined to give this a good score.
So I went with 5. There were moments. Some really great, interesting characters that I wanted to learn more about. Some great performances. But the plotting completely failed all of them, and the writing only compounded the problem.
Let's start with the good. Tilly/Saru/Stamets. Love them to bits. Love seeing new sides of them and watching them react to new situations. I could watch these three as supporting players all day. Especially Doug Jones, who continues to impress with what he's able to do under heavy makeup effects. That man can act.
Then there's the two Georgious and Lorca. Lorca was the most compelling thing about this show right up until they decided he was just a mustache twirling space dictator. He lost all nuance and went completely one note. He was utterly failed by the ending. Prior to that it was fascinating watching him turn and twist, and never sure quite which way he would lean, towards hero or monster. And Michelle Yeoh made both versions of her character interesting in their own ways. There was absolutely no confusing the two, even their body language felt different. Her evil Emperor was fun and challenging (Also, though it be un-PC... those leather pants! What a gorgeous woman.) right up until they sold her out for the sake of a speedy resolution in the finale.
As for the bad? Plotting. Poor writing when it came to the big moments at the end of their arcs. Wasting Shazad Latif on a character that they just didn't have anything to really expore with (he's more MacGuffin than man). And Burnham. Who is the dullest, least interesting character in her own show. Who somehow gets excused from mutiny against the lawful orders of her captain because she wasn't willing to kill millions or billions of people (gotta love that low bar!).
The big endings to the season really drag it down for me. Overall it wasn't bad. I'll at least check out season 2. But it fell into safe, trope heavy storytelling at the end and rushed to unearned, and frankly nonsensical conclusions across the board.
So I went with 5. There were moments. Some really great, interesting characters that I wanted to learn more about. Some great performances. But the plotting completely failed all of them, and the writing only compounded the problem.
Let's start with the good. Tilly/Saru/Stamets. Love them to bits. Love seeing new sides of them and watching them react to new situations. I could watch these three as supporting players all day. Especially Doug Jones, who continues to impress with what he's able to do under heavy makeup effects. That man can act.
Then there's the two Georgious and Lorca. Lorca was the most compelling thing about this show right up until they decided he was just a mustache twirling space dictator. He lost all nuance and went completely one note. He was utterly failed by the ending. Prior to that it was fascinating watching him turn and twist, and never sure quite which way he would lean, towards hero or monster. And Michelle Yeoh made both versions of her character interesting in their own ways. There was absolutely no confusing the two, even their body language felt different. Her evil Emperor was fun and challenging (Also, though it be un-PC... those leather pants! What a gorgeous woman.) right up until they sold her out for the sake of a speedy resolution in the finale.
As for the bad? Plotting. Poor writing when it came to the big moments at the end of their arcs. Wasting Shazad Latif on a character that they just didn't have anything to really expore with (he's more MacGuffin than man). And Burnham. Who is the dullest, least interesting character in her own show. Who somehow gets excused from mutiny against the lawful orders of her captain because she wasn't willing to kill millions or billions of people (gotta love that low bar!).
The big endings to the season really drag it down for me. Overall it wasn't bad. I'll at least check out season 2. But it fell into safe, trope heavy storytelling at the end and rushed to unearned, and frankly nonsensical conclusions across the board.
I rated it a five. It has good elements and bad elements. A very mixed bag. I would have voted lower but the TOS fanservice which I was happy for, kept it from being rated lower.
Jammer pretty much summed up exactly how I feel about Discovery in his review of "The War Within:"
I've enjoyed watching each episode, but none of it is good and I couldn't defend the show as worthwhile if I were pressed.
Nevertheless, somehow, I'll be back for season 2.
I've enjoyed watching each episode, but none of it is good and I couldn't defend the show as worthwhile if I were pressed.
Nevertheless, somehow, I'll be back for season 2.
This is an interesting assertion.
Because for me, it's actually quite the opposite. Mainly probably because I really didn't get anything out of the main story arc(s): I think the klingon war arc was one big clusterfuck. And the mirror universe - while very enjoyable, mindless schlocky fun, didn't feel meaningfull in any way and just like a "detour". And if you look at the episodes singularly, most of them are really weak.
The strongest aspect of DIS is mostly the character work - specifically the actors, not necessary the dialogue. But DS9 had a much stronger character focused first season. TNG on the other hand had massive problems with characterisation - but it was so chock-full of ideas and plots, it made up for them. And VOY/ENT? Well, I think if you chose a random episode from each's first season, chances are, it's a better episode than any random episode of DIS' first season.
So. IMO DIS has actually the worst first seasons of any Trek show.... BUT!
And this is a BIG but! That's still a good show. Like - being almost there on a TREK-level of quality, is actually still pretty amazing. If a new show from another franchise tanks - think Stargate:Universe - that show is utter crap. DIS is still Star Trek! Not great Star Trek. Probably not even good StarTrek, more "mediocre" when compared to the rest of Trek. But that is STILL miles and miles beyond most competition!
Like, DIS season 1 is never going to be my favourite season of Trek. In most likelyhood, I probably won't even rewatch it (and I rewatched most of Trek). But still - I'll be back when it continues. Because, warts and all, it sill is essential Star Trek. And that's what I'm here for.
And who knows? Maybe it becomes the next TNG in the long run?
I agree with the plotting and dialog criticisms, but I gave it an 8.
Why? It was ambitious! It had to weave together all the existing Trek and define a new identity for itself and Trek to come. They took the hard road by both placing it in the Prime timeline and not telescoping to some technobabble/deus ex machina post-Voyager universe with all its nineties sci-fi cliches.
They definitely bit off more than they could chew and tried to accomplish too much, but they had something to prove and they proved it. Star Trek can work in a modern TV environment with people dissecting its every detail and expecting every episode to be epic.
I sincerely hope they dial things back in season 2. Much like many great symphonies have a bombastic opening movement before a slower adagio, I think Discovery has tremendous promise, if they remember to slow down to catch their breath every once in a while.
Why? It was ambitious! It had to weave together all the existing Trek and define a new identity for itself and Trek to come. They took the hard road by both placing it in the Prime timeline and not telescoping to some technobabble/deus ex machina post-Voyager universe with all its nineties sci-fi cliches.
They definitely bit off more than they could chew and tried to accomplish too much, but they had something to prove and they proved it. Star Trek can work in a modern TV environment with people dissecting its every detail and expecting every episode to be epic.
I sincerely hope they dial things back in season 2. Much like many great symphonies have a bombastic opening movement before a slower adagio, I think Discovery has tremendous promise, if they remember to slow down to catch their breath every once in a while.
Honestly the opposite is the problem. Most here (and on /r/StarTrek) view Discovery with massive rose tinted goggles because it has Star Trek in the name.
Seriously, people here are rating this season 7, 8, 9, 10. But let me ask you. If that is the case, say Discovery is a 8 or 9 out of 10. What does that make S1 or S2 of TOS? what does that make the better seasons of DS9? TNG? S3 and S4 of Enterprise? All those shows rose to much, much higher highs than Discovery. So what score do you give them? 25 out of 10?
Outside of Star Trek, if Discovery is a 9 out of 10 series, what in hell is Game of Thrones? The Thick of It? Mad Men? Breaking Bad? The Expanse? Band of Brothers, The Wire? Black Mirror?
The fact is, Discovery just isn't very good on any real level. The show FAILED at what it set out to do, the entire production was a mess, the writing was objectively crap, the acting was sub-par, entire plot arcs that spanned episodes went absolutely nowhere or ended in massive asspull eye rolling events (and character assassinations).
We're at the end of S1 and the show basically still doesn't actually have characters. There is little to the what.. 3 or 4 characters we have beyond what the plot needs them to be.
Discovery is not a 7, 8, 9 or 10 show, it's a 2, 3 or 4 show. I don't even really like The Expanse because I really dislike the Main Character, but even though I don't like the Expanse, I can still say that the Expanse is a vastly better sci-fi show than Star Trek Discovery in every way from writing, to plotting, to acting, to VFX, to production.
If I'm going to rate it, I'm not going to rate Discovery based on absolutely nothing like most people do, I'll rate it based on what it could be and compared to it's competition and compared to its competition, Discovery is flat out bad.
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I voted 7
It was entertaining, but often the execution was as good as the idea.
I think I am let down that the show wasn’t as “Klingon” as they made it seem in the press leading up.
The MU stuff well “almost” cinematic, objectively wasn’t as great as they clearly wanted it to be or thought it was.
I hope season 2 gives us more character driven moments. I want less plot, more character.
Oh, and the Enterprise looks like it should have in 2009.
It was entertaining, but often the execution was as good as the idea.
I think I am let down that the show wasn’t as “Klingon” as they made it seem in the press leading up.
The MU stuff well “almost” cinematic, objectively wasn’t as great as they clearly wanted it to be or thought it was.
I hope season 2 gives us more character driven moments. I want less plot, more character.
Oh, and the Enterprise looks like it should have in 2009.
I voted 5.
The show has been really entertaining but at the same time it has been really contrived and convoluted. The writing has been poor to say the very least. We've followed plot arcs for them to suddenly fizzle out with no pay off. There hasn't been enough time spent on developing characters, the writers were too distracted by taking the shortcut from A to Z or the new plot twist that no one will see coming (expect it was predicted on the interwebs five episodes previously).
What was the point of Lorca? What was the point of the MU? What was the point of the Spore Drive? What was the point of the Klingon War arc? What was the point of Ash/Voq? What was the point of the Empress? And this last episode what the heck was the scantily clad people dancing about? Was it essential to the plot? No. Was it titillation for a certain part of the fanbase? Yes. I thought in this new world we'd moved passed that kind of thing.
I've spent the best part of 15 hours watching this show and getting to know these characters and I don't really know any more than than I did at the end of the first episode. As such I don't really have a reason to continue watching. The lame cliffhanger is just lame.
The show has been really entertaining but at the same time it has been really contrived and convoluted. The writing has been poor to say the very least. We've followed plot arcs for them to suddenly fizzle out with no pay off. There hasn't been enough time spent on developing characters, the writers were too distracted by taking the shortcut from A to Z or the new plot twist that no one will see coming (expect it was predicted on the interwebs five episodes previously).
What was the point of Lorca? What was the point of the MU? What was the point of the Spore Drive? What was the point of the Klingon War arc? What was the point of Ash/Voq? What was the point of the Empress? And this last episode what the heck was the scantily clad people dancing about? Was it essential to the plot? No. Was it titillation for a certain part of the fanbase? Yes. I thought in this new world we'd moved passed that kind of thing.
I've spent the best part of 15 hours watching this show and getting to know these characters and I don't really know any more than than I did at the end of the first episode. As such I don't really have a reason to continue watching. The lame cliffhanger is just lame.
Voted 7.
It certainly had its problems, and I'm sure the circumstances of Fuller's exit can account for most of them. With the ending we got, I'm sure the original plan was for Lorca's emotional state advancing to the point he'd see no other way out but genocide, forcing Burnham to commit another mutiny - this time with the crew on her side. But that's just speculation, of course. Anyway, it can be seen that the season arc fell victim to a hasty rewrite, but this is the reason why my hopes for Season 2 are high.
Overall, most of the characters were great as was the acting. Lorca was easily the best, followed closely by Tilly for me. Saru grew on me at the end and I'll root for him eventually rising to captain. Stamets was also great, while Ash was rather so-so. Burnham I'm still not sold on, she works well with the cast but I'm still not sure she can carry a story on her own. As for the supporting cast, I hope the secondary cast gets fleshed out in the next season.
I liked the production design, and had no problems with updating old designs, the Enterprise in particular was beautiful. The FX shots could be improved though.
To summarize, I'm not much of a TOS fan enough to judge how DSC relates to its first season. It was certainly better than the respective seasons of TNG and DS9, but, compared to the latter, it also failed to deliver a Duet-like crowning achievement. It had a rough start but it's a good foundation to build a memorable series upon. Verdict: hopeful and enthusiastic.
It certainly had its problems, and I'm sure the circumstances of Fuller's exit can account for most of them. With the ending we got, I'm sure the original plan was for Lorca's emotional state advancing to the point he'd see no other way out but genocide, forcing Burnham to commit another mutiny - this time with the crew on her side. But that's just speculation, of course. Anyway, it can be seen that the season arc fell victim to a hasty rewrite, but this is the reason why my hopes for Season 2 are high.
Overall, most of the characters were great as was the acting. Lorca was easily the best, followed closely by Tilly for me. Saru grew on me at the end and I'll root for him eventually rising to captain. Stamets was also great, while Ash was rather so-so. Burnham I'm still not sold on, she works well with the cast but I'm still not sure she can carry a story on her own. As for the supporting cast, I hope the secondary cast gets fleshed out in the next season.
I liked the production design, and had no problems with updating old designs, the Enterprise in particular was beautiful. The FX shots could be improved though.
To summarize, I'm not much of a TOS fan enough to judge how DSC relates to its first season. It was certainly better than the respective seasons of TNG and DS9, but, compared to the latter, it also failed to deliver a Duet-like crowning achievement. It had a rough start but it's a good foundation to build a memorable series upon. Verdict: hopeful and enthusiastic.
YES YES YES that's exactly what I thought. There was a lot I liked about ST09 (and a lot I didn't), but the "hot rod" Enterprise was not my cup of tea.
This Enterprise looks to me like what I imagine the TOS Enterprise *should have* looked like, if they had had the resources. Also, so much better than the remastered version.
Wow. You know, people are entitled to their opinions. You come in here with a very brash statement which basically suggests, “If you don’t agree with me, you’re wrong.” It’s not a perfect show. I think we all know it has its flaws. Maybe other opinions aren’t as calculated as yours is. Let’s be honest, with more people than not, when they rate a show, it’s in the moment. It’s emotional. Why do you think Last Jedi was hit so hard with negative fan reviews? I don’t care if you like or dislike the show, but don’t fucking ruin it for others or put people down for how they feel about series or how they ranked it! Art is subjective. Your view of it is no better or worse than anyone else’s.
I think it's been decent but there has been a lot of flawed execution and wasted opportunities. One thing I will say though is that I like the world and characters enough to want to watch a new episode every Monday, so it is doing its job there.
Where it's failed to grip me is the main plot and I'm looking forward to them moving away from the Klingon War. It was just background noise to me, I didn't feel like there was a war going on most of the time. We were just told there was, so it never resonated with me.
Enjoyed the Mirror Universe stuff more than anything to be honest, even if it didn't really have any significance in the end, and I do wish we'd have got more of Lorca as a villain.
A 7/10 is fair enough I reckon.
Where it's failed to grip me is the main plot and I'm looking forward to them moving away from the Klingon War. It was just background noise to me, I didn't feel like there was a war going on most of the time. We were just told there was, so it never resonated with me.
Enjoyed the Mirror Universe stuff more than anything to be honest, even if it didn't really have any significance in the end, and I do wish we'd have got more of Lorca as a villain.
A 7/10 is fair enough I reckon.
Feeling rather negative about the season after the finale - I was thoroughly enjoying the show until they landed in the MU - a place I found irritating in other Treks - But some of the writing decisions and inexplicable character choices - added to the wasted opportunity - in my opinion - to do something interesting with the Klingon War and the Tyler sexual abuse torture has soured my opinion.
Ok to be fair -
Eps 1-11 - 8/10
eps 12-15 - 5/10
Ok to be fair -
Eps 1-11 - 8/10
eps 12-15 - 5/10
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