Space Battleship Yamato 2202

[Ithekro]

s(Spoiler heavy...yes)
From what I recall, the plan was an emergency effort to send the one ship that had the equivalent to an instant terraforming kit (the Cosmo Reverse System) and a load of females to repopulate the species on another world if the war gets to the point that Earth will be doomed (survival of the species). The thing is, these women are not acting very human. They are likely part of what would be the broken generation that grew up during the Gamilas War...the war that nearly killed humanity. They are very mechanical minded, that humanity isn't worth it nearly. Essentially they are becoming like Zordar and his people in an effort to win the war, which basically defeats the purpose of the entire repopulation plan (or subverts the idea by making these women not very human-like, but wanting mechanical parts, and being emotionally distant). At least that's what I'm getting from the presentation of Ginga and Captain Todo's arc.

Mind you Captain Todo is older than Kodai, and outranks him (she's a Lt. Commander, while he's still a Lieutenant). He has more combat experience for sure, thus she's in command of an experimental vessel that designed for research and exploration (Ginga translates to Galaxy, and based on the design, the intentional reference is USS Galaxy to USS Yamato in TNG). They also quite clearly rushed that ship into service given the state of the war. Its a really good support ship....but the guns don't work.

But for actual spoilers:

Spoiler

She and her crew get better. Not only at their jobs, but also with their outlook and personalities. I would not mind seeing them again in the future. Captain Todo seems alright once she gets over her emotional hang up.

Though Earth is going to need to go a bit of a rethink in terms of fleet defense post-war. Epsiode 26 spoilers below:

Spoiler

The Time Fault is destroyed by Ginga's Cosmo Reverse System in a plan put forth by Sanada to shove a repaired Yamato back into Teresa's realm to pick up Kodai and Yuki, who didn't return when Yamato returned to the Time Fault some six months after the war ended with Yamamoto onboard.
So they get six months more out of the ship construction post-war, than collapse it to save the two people that actually saved Earth.

So the next series or film will come eventually. It is clear the production committee already has something in the works. Same writer. Different director (the director of Yamato 2202 was offered the job, but turned it down so he could enjoy seeing the next story). When and what it is is currently unknown, though its been suggested the path to Yamato 2202 would leave into the New Voyage.

I suspect we might get an announcement of some kind in a week or so, when Yamato 2202 finishes airing in Japan. Though they might hold off another month for Funimation to finish their run at the end of April.

 

[Skipper]

s(Spoiler heavy...yes)
From what I recall, the plan was an emergency effort to send the one ship that had the equivalent to an instant terraforming kit (the Cosmo Reverse System) and a load of females to repopulate the species on another world if the war gets to the point that Earth will be doomed (survival of the species). The thing is, these women are not acting very human. They are likely part of what would be the broken generation that grew up during the Gamilas War...the war that nearly killed humanity. They are very mechanical minded, that humanity isn't worth it nearly. Essentially they are becoming like Zordar and his people in an effort to win the war, which basically defeats the purpose of the entire repopulation plan (or subverts the idea by making these women not very human-like, but wanting mechanical parts, and being emotionally distant). At least that's what I'm getting from the presentation of Ginga and Captain Todo's arc.

Mind you Captain Todo is older than Kodai, and outranks him (she's a Lt. Commander, while he's still a Lieutenant). He has more combat experience for sure, thus she's in command of an experimental vessel that designed for research and exploration (Ginga translates to Galaxy, and based on the design, the intentional reference is USS Galaxy to USS Yamato in TNG). They also quite clearly rushed that ship into service given the state of the war. Its a really good support ship....but the guns don't work.

But for actual spoilers:

Spoiler

She and her crew get better. Not only at their jobs, but also with their outlook and personalities. I would not mind seeing them again in the future. Captain Todo seems alright once she gets over her emotional hang up.

Though Earth is going to need to go a bit of a rethink in terms of fleet defense post-war. Epsiode 26 spoilers below:

Spoiler

The Time Fault is destroyed by Ginga's Cosmo Reverse System in a plan put forth by Sanada to shove a repaired Yamato back into Teresa's realm to pick up Kodai and Yuki, who didn't return when Yamato returned to the Time Fault some six months after the war ended with Yamamoto onboard.
So they get six months more out of the ship construction post-war, than collapse it to save the two people that actually saved Earth.

So the next series or film will come eventually. It is clear the production committee already has something in the works. Same writer. Different director (the director of Yamato 2202 was offered the job, but turned it down so he could enjoy seeing the next story). When and what it is is currently unknown, though its been suggested the path to Yamato 2202 would leave into the New Voyage.

I suspect we might get an announcement of some kind in a week or so, when Yamato 2202 finishes airing in Japan. Though they might hold off another month for Funimation to finish their run at the end of April.

This is an interesting interpretation. But the problem is that we don't see any other female captain or crew in other ships, even if it's clear that they are desperate for more man(?)power. And they clearly said that the only reason they are enlisted in their position is because they can make babies. Even Daisuke Shima was surprised how the Ginga's navigator was not up to the task and the latter was seriously considering to get bionic implants to do the job that evidently ever other man in the fleet is perfectly capable of.

And even in the Yamato there were younger crew members and they didn't seem to me emotionally stunted like the Ginga's.

 

[Khan2012]

Let's talk a moment about (SPOILER)

how the crew of the Ginga if crew is composed mainly of women, only because in case of emergency the ship will became a giant flying incubator. And how these women aren't even good at their jobs, so their unique redeeming quality is their capacity of popping out babies. And how they are portrayed them in a very old-fashioned, sexist way as someone who had to be cold and aloof and deny their femininity in order to be capable to do a man's job. And how it's heavily implied that the ship has a female captain not because her merits, but because she's the daughter of a top brass.

Really, there is the old, plain, vanilla sexism. And then there is Japan, which has perfected it and made it art.

Oh no arguments there. As much as I love Ginga as a concept and her crew, that plot point seriously pisses me off.

 

[Skipper]

Oh no arguments there. As much as I love Ginga as a concept and her crew, that plot point seriously pisses me off.

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one...

 

[Khan2012]

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one...

Oh you are not the only one, that's for sure. You should have seen this one discord server I'm in when we found out about that plot point. We were majorly pissed.

 

[Skipper]

Oh you are not the only one, that's for sure. You should have seen this one discord server I'm in when we found out about that plot point. We were majorly pissed.

Can you provide me a link (even in PM if you prefer)?

 

[Ithekro]

This is an interesting interpretation. But the problem is that we don't see any other female captain or crew in other ships, even if it's clear that they are desperate for more man(?)power. And they clearly said that the only reason they are enlisted in their position is because they can make babies. Even Daisuke Shima was surprised how the Ginga's navigator was not up to the task and the latter was seriously considering to get bionic implants to do the job that evidently ever other man in the fleet is perfectly capable of.

And even in the Yamato there were younger crew members and they didn't seem to me emotionally stunted like the Ginga's.

To be fair, we don't see many ship's crews at all. In this series we see the bridges of five Earth ships (Yuunagi, Yamato, Ginga, Andromeda, and Dreadnought), and just the captains of two other Andromedas (rather than its crews), so we have a small sample of the fleet of hundreds to thousands of ships.

But yes, they did form up a ship crewed mainly by women to help repopulate the species, and it was this ship specifically because its the only ship in the fleet with the instant terraforming gun that they got from Iscandar (its literally the same device Yamato brought back to Earth to make it blue again at the end of Yamato 2199). And we saw Shima dealing with these gravity conditions inside Gatlantis earlier in the show...he was struggling with it and he's the best helmsman they got in the fleet. Ginga's helmsman is a definitely newbie. She's the same age or maybe slightly younger than Shima was when they left for Iscandar. They are mostly fresh cadets aside from the Captain and XO (the XO is the oldest woman we've seen in Earth military service in this show...she's 36).

As for Yamato's crew, they were hand picked from the best and brightest Earth had left in the dark days at the end of the war. They aren't going to be the emotional wrecks like we have on Ginga, who's mission is basically the Izumo Plan with a better ship. Ginga's would be picked because they would follow orders without question, they would be willing to abandon Earth if needed. A plan like G-Plan would need emotional detached people. The problem with it is that you get people who are no longer very human. Their humanity is slipping as they become more machine (in thinking or in body if they start getting mechanical limbs) and in some ways defeating the purpose of the plan to save humanity. Yamato's mission, to make a year long trip in a blind effort to save Earth from destruction, requires a hopeful crew that is unwilling to give up on Earth to make that voyage. They would make choices on their own, but Earth's survival would be at the forefront of their minds with a steel-like determination. Yamato's crew is humanity.

Basically, Ginga's crew is a heavy trope subversion. Where any other anime would make them a who's who mess of different character types (and main characters), this story places them in the position as humanities survival, but makes the idea seem pointless since these woman have given up on their humanity. Its heavy handed for sure, and Ginga starts out like Yamato's dark shady cousin, full of opposites. Even their uniforms are basically opposites of Yamato's. The weird opposite that is that the ship is a non-combatant. Its guns don't work (the Cosmo Reverse System is preventing the ship from using its weapons....the gun do function, but the system is blocking the commands).

 

[Skipper]

To be fair, we don't see many ship's crews at all. In this series we see the bridges of five Earth ships (Yuunagi, Yamato, Ginga, Andromeda, and Dreadnought), and just the captains of two other Andromedas (rather than its crews), so we have a small sample of the fleet of hundreds to thousands of ships.

We saw the battle at Pluto. We saw the flashbacks. We saw the scenes at the headquarters. And the only woman in a position of power that appeared on screen was this one (I suppose she is the president of the EU or similar).

These gaijins and their silly ways! A woman as a head of state! Let's put one on screen so we can give a touch of exoticism!

Look, I really appreciate your insights . But the reality is that it's a show made in Japan, probably the most sexist developed country. I still remember the exact moment when I stopped to watch Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans. When to a female character was said that she must commit herself to became a good wife. And she accepted with enthusiasm this suggestion.

And really, on what planet (excuse me the pun) this can be considered a sensible nurse uniform..?

 

[Khan2012]

We saw the battle at Pluto. We saw the flashbacks. We saw the scenes at the headquarters. And the only woman in a position of power that appeared on screen was this one (I suppose she is the president of the EU or similar).

These gaijins and their silly ways! A woman as a head of state! Let's put one on screen so we can give a touch of exoticism!

Look, I really appreciate your insights . But the reality is that it's a show made in Japan, probably the most sexist developed country. I still remember the exact moment when I stopped to watch Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans. When to a female character was said that she must commit herself to became a good wife. And she accepted with enthusiasm this suggestion.

And really, on what planet (excuse me the pun) this can be considered a sensible nurse uniform..?

In terms of uniforms, 2202 is actually a step up over 2199 in a lot of regards. You have characters like Lieutenant Nagakura, who is a female marine and has *actual practical armor* that isn't sexualized in the slightest.
DUoS6iGVwAEBZaB.jpg
And Saki Todo, for all the faults behind the plotting of her character, actually gets a captain's uniform instead of a jumpsuit. So 2202 pleasantly surprised me overall in its handling of female characters.

 

[Skipper]

In terms of uniforms, 2202 is actually a step up over 2199 in a lot of regards.

The problem is it is a step up from a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low position.... . I mean, the original Yamato had exactly ONE female crew member...

 

[137th Gebirg]

Don't forget there's also Yamamoto, the female Martian pilot, who is somewhat reminiscent of NuBSG's Starbuck and one of the best flyers on the boat.

Do they still have a long way to go? Yes.

Have they come far since the original 70's and 80's show/movies? Yes, as well.

 

[Noname Given]

This is an interesting interpretation. But the problem is that we don't see any other female captain or crew in other ships, even if it's clear that they are desperate for more man(?)power. And they clearly said that the only reason they are enlisted in their position is because they can make babies. Even Daisuke Shima was surprised how the Ginga's navigator was not up to the task and the latter was seriously considering to get bionic implants to do the job that evidently ever other man in the fleet is perfectly capable of.

And even in the Yamato there were younger crew members and they didn't seem to me emotionally stunted like the Ginga's.

I didn't think he thought she wasn't up to the task, she was just out of the Academy and a bit Green. What through him was her commenting on how she'd be willing to discard her real flesh and blood arms for advanced cybernetic ones, so she could more quickly and easily steer the ship without more training time.

 

[Skipper]

Don't forget there's also Yamamoto, the female Martian pilot, who is somewhat reminiscent of NuBSG's Starbuck and one of the best flyers on the boat.

Oh, you intend that one who was assigned to the account division and the leader of the Flying squad had ignored her education and experience in the cockpit and blocked her admission? That pilot who had to steal a fighter to prove her worth? And then she had to endure skepticism and teasing from her male comrades? That one?

Yes, what an enlightened example of future egalitarianism

 

[Khan2012]

Oh, you intend that one who was assigned to the account division and the leader of the Flying squad had ignored her education and experience in the cockpit and blocked her admission? That pilot who had to steal a fighter to prove her worth? And then she had to endure skepticism and teasing from her male comrades? That one?

Yes, what an enlightened example of future egalitarianism

I mean, someone facing sexism in an in-universe perspective isn't necessarily an example of bad representation, and Kato had a bit of a sympathetic motivation (he had made a promise to Yamamoto's brother to keep her alive, and accounting almost certainly has lower casualty rates than fighter piloting). The blatant fanservice scenes on the other hand........

 

[Skipper]

I mean, someone facing sexism in an in-universe perspective isn't necessarily an example of bad representation, and Kato had a bit of a sympathetic motivation (he had made a promise to Yamamoto's brother to keep her alive, and accounting almost certainly has lower casualty rates than fighter piloting). ..

The problem is she didn't just face sexism from Kato but

1. She has to face skepticism from the other (male) Flying squad members too.
2. She is the only earth female pilot that we see in all the series and the movie. Even my country (Italy), which doesn't have the best reputation in the matter of egalitarianism, now has more female military pilots than all the United Nations Cosmo Navy combined!

The blatant fanservice scenes on the other hand........

Yep! There is a difference between "sexy" and "sexualized".

Sexy female sci fi heroes:

and the sexualized ones...

I think that problem lies mainly with the original work. Women' depiction in Matsumoto's works has been always... problematic. They are either arian untouchable goddesses, or your local smurfette.

The Smurfette principle is the practice in media, such as film, television series and television networks, to include only one woman in an otherwise entirely male ensemble.[1][2] The term was coined by Katha Pollitt in 1991 in The New York Times:[3]

It establishes a male-dominated narrative, where the woman is the exception and exists only in reference to the men.[4][5]The woman character essentially represents “femininity” in these cases. She may or may not play a major role in the story, but typically is “everything female.” Some examples that Pollitt cites include the mother figure, a “glamour queen,” or a female sidekick of sorts.[3] As a consequence, works employing this trope often fail the Bechdel test, an indicator of gender bias in fiction.

And I strongly doubt that in the complete work of Matsumoto there would be a single instance where a character could pass the Bechdel test...

You know, the live action Yamato movie did a better work in term of female representation than its animated counterparts...

PS Now I remember. The enemies of Harlock in the original tv show where the Mazonians (a people composed only by female warriors). And you know what was the preferred method by our hero to defeat them..?

Yep! He rams their pink starships with his big, hard and long knife. There is so much to unwrap in this single image to keep an psychoanalyst occupied for a whole essay....

 

[Ithekro]

They've done much better with that in Yamato 2202 verses Yamato 2199. Much less fanservice in Yamato 2202 (the story is aimed more at the 40-50 year old Japanese demographic, the lost generation I think its called, while Yamato 2199 was trying to be slightly more inclusive in terms of age range while with more character arcs, and fanservice levels). From some of the female fans I've heard from there is more fanservice for them in Yamato 2202 than in Yamato 2199 with Saito, Keyman, and Kodai (and others).

Yamato 2199 spread out the workload with adding so many additional female characters (Yuki quite literally did nearly every job on that ship at some point in her career). They spaced out her many jobs between herself and three or four other women, and added a few new characters for other jobs (Niimi in the science role for example. I want to say that she's the one designed the wave motion gun, but I can't prove that) and added at least two more female secondary characters that got a lot of screen time late in Yamato 2199, in Ark of the Stars film, and in Yamato 2202. While several of the additional female characters from Yamato 2199 were sidelined for much of the main story of Yamato 2202, they did come back with the Ginga's crew to add back into the story. Plus you get Nagakura and Katsuragi added to the story at Planet 11 who have their own arcs and such to the plot. Katsuragi being a heavy plot element, while Nagakura brings in a marine who's basically second officer of the unit. She's definitely not standard fanservice material, since she has unflattering clothing and proper body armor.

Yamamoto is ridiculously popular right now. Almost on par with Yuki (who's had a long run being the only woman on ship).

 

[Skipper]

They've done much better with that in Yamato 2202 verses Yamato 2199. Much less fanservice in Yamato 2202 (the story is aimed more at the 40-50 year old Japanese demographic, the lost generation I think its called, while Yamato 2199 was trying to be slightly more inclusive in terms of age range while with more character arcs, and fanservice levels). From some of the female fans I've heard from there is more fanservice for them in Yamato 2202 than in Yamato 2199 with Saito, Keyman, and Kodai (and others).

Yamato 2199 spread out the workload with adding so many additional female characters (Yuki quite literally did nearly every job on that ship at some point in her career). They spaced out her many jobs between herself and three or four other women, and added a few new characters for other jobs (Niimi in the science role for example. I want to say that she's the one designed the wave motion gun, but I can't prove that) and added at least two more female secondary characters that got a lot of screen time late in Yamato 2199, in Ark of the Stars film, and in Yamato 2202. While several of the additional female characters from Yamato 2199 were sidelined for much of the main story of Yamato 2202, they did come back with the Ginga's crew to add back into the story. Plus you get Nagakura and Katsuragi added to the story at Planet 11 who have their own arcs and such to the plot. Katsuragi being a heavy plot element, while Nagakura brings in a marine who's basically second officer of the unit. She's definitely not standard fanservice material, since she has unflattering clothing and proper body armor.

Yamamoto is ridiculously popular right now. Almost on par with Yuki (who's had a long run being the only woman on ship).

I don't doubt that there are more female characters in the remake than in the original work (not a difficult task. I mean, for a while Yuki seemed the only female on Earth). It's their depiction that I find problematic. Shiori Nagakura is probably the only one that I have no issues with.

 

[Skipper]

This is an article about the remake by a female anime fan. She enunciates these concepts better than me...

THE STAR BLAZERS REBOOT HAS MORE REPRESENTATION THAN EVER, BUT STILL FAILS ITS FEMALE CHARACTERS

 

[Ithekro]

For Yamato 2199. But Yamato 2202 is a bit different than that.

 

[getumbuck]

This is an article about the remake by a female anime fan. She enunciates these concepts better than me...

THE STAR BLAZERS REBOOT HAS MORE REPRESENTATION THAN EVER, BUT STILL FAILS ITS FEMALE CHARACTERS

I'm just happy the ladies of Yamato aren't treated like flawless Marry Sue's, such as the ones given to us in Disney's Star War films and sadly Discovery. I mean one of the reasons Spider Gwen and X-23 are two of my favorite Marvel character is not because they're ladies, but because they're screwed up characters, trying to fight having identity crises. I mean heck Kira is my favorite Star Trek lady, because she has to come to the realization that she's a racist toward the end of season 1 and then spends the rest of the series trying to be a better person. Don't even get me started on my love for the Alien franchise, the first two films in particular.

I do agree that the fan service thing kind of sucks, but don't hate on Akira, because she's awesome and gives me so major Kira vibes from DS9.