Soyuz

[Lakenheath 72]

I think the extension contains the impulse engines. This is speculation as the aft area, in its only appearances, is in darkness. I am extrapolating from the fact that the Miranda-class impulse engines were located where the extension is on the Soyuz-class.

 

[Timo]

What we do see clearly is that only the portside shuttle hangar door is lit - the putative center one is not - but also that there is no impulse engine glow in evidence anywhere. The hexagonal cross section aft add-on simply wasn't wired for any sort of illumination.

Now, which feature should we argue could more logically be present but dark at the stern of that add-on? In the TOS movies, the impulse engines of the Enterprise glow even when the ship is immobile/coasting, even though there is variance to the intensity. Those of the Reliant are prominently red until the ship is crippled for good. But the hangar doors of that ship are also brightly lit in blue till the very last.

Supposedly, the Bozeman isn't particularly crippled. But the E-D did lose power in connection with the other starship emerging; perhaps there was some damage involved on both sides? And the two ships are formation-flying, but the Bozeman might be coasting.

We could also argue that the impulse nozzles are beneath the aft box and therefore go unseen in that shot. In scale model reality, the Bozeman has both a hangar door atop and a hooded impulse assembly below, but as said, these cannot be discerned onscreen. It might be a bit much to assume that the ship has both of the features in place but also has suffered loss of power or illumination to both simultaneously...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lakenheath 72]

The lights for Bay 2, which is on the starboard side, are out.

For the appearance of this variant, there is the episode and that one pic in the Encyclopedia. Are there additional photos of this model?

I find it odd that Worf reading the Starfleet Registry didn't note that the Bozeman wasn't reporting as missing in 2278. Why wasn't that information included in the database? The Starfleet Registry gives information on a ship's name, class, and registry and the ship's current status.

The DS9:TM states that some of the Soyuz-class components were removed and used for other classes.

 

[Timo]

The lights for Bay 2, which is on the starboard side, are out.

Hmh? Do we ever get an angle that would show that bay? The stern extension appears to obscure the starboard door till the very last.

(Incidentally, since Bay 1 is the only one with a label visible, we can choose to believe in various numbering schemes - port to starboard probably being the most logical...)

Are there additional photos of this model?

There are two in the old Chronology - the portside shot also seen in the Encyclopedia, and a port/stern three-quarters one. The latter (p.175 in the 1996 color print) shows the centerline bay door and impulse engine hood quite clearly. Both photos are retouched a bit: the added starfield background, color highlights on nacelle "field windows" and shuttlebay doors.

I find it odd that Worf reading the Starfleet Registry didn't note that the Bozeman wasn't reporting as missing in 2278. Why wasn't that information included in the database? The Starfleet Registry gives information on a ship's name, class, and registry and the ship's current status.

I don't quite understand. Why would Worf be expected to mention this "reported missing" bit? Apparently, our heroes can't see the name and registry of this ship with their own eyes (not unexpected, as it's murky out there, and the ship just flew past them and supposedly is now behind them), so Worf quotes what the computer has divined either from the strange ship's transponder signal or automated image analysis or whatnot. Time for details would be later; for now, the identity of the ship is plenty enough.

The DS9:TM states that some of the Soyuz-class components were removed and used for other classes.

...Namely, their "aft phaser strips"! Doesn't sound consistent, as the technology wouldn't supposedly even have existed by the time this class was retired in its entirety. (If this refers to "aft phaser turrets", we're still left scratching our heads, since the only aft-facing turrets are the single banks apparently flanking the impulse engine, glimpsed on the original Reliant model but missing from all the later uses and reproductions of the model; the Bozeman clearly couldn't have those.)

Possibly Starfleet has operated several classes named Soyuz. One might be a "proper" class from the 24th century, while this one is just a minor sub-class of Miranda; our heroes should have no problem discerning the two, as they clearly know all about the older variant (including esoteria such as the exact retirement date) and thus would be expected to associate the correct Soyuz with the shape that just whizzed past, even if only after a bit of prompting from Worf/the computer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lakenheath 72]

It's interesting that two of the classes from the late 23rd century had large bays.

The Constellation-class had seven bays, which were several decks high.

The Soyuz-class had three bays, with the larger bay located in an extension.

Why would at least two ship classes have these large bays?

Would the deck in the extension bay be different from the deck for the other bays, as it is located above the fusion reactors which power the impulse engines?

Could the time loop have moved the Bozeman from its original position to the Typhon Expanse? The reason I asked is that in the episode the Enterprise is mentioned as the first manned Starfleet ship assigned for deep space exploration of this region of space. There is no mention of another starship exploring this region which later disappeared.

(There are two Galaxy-class starships. The first is mentioned in The Treaty of Armens, a treaty that isn't amended or altered since its signing in 2255.)

 

[Wingsley]

If the temporal anomaly conveyed the Starship Bozeman ahead 90 years, why could it not also convey the ship many light-years across deep space, to wind up far away from where it started?

In "Yesterday's Enterprise", the Battleship Enterprise-D discovered the Enterprise-C emerging from a rift in deep space, yet the Enterprise-C fell into the rift supposedly light-years away in the Nirendra star system.

Has anyone ever done any high-quality CGI re-creations of the Bozeman / Soyuz?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm fan of Diane Carey's USS Bozeman backstory from the novel Ship of the Line, where it's a border patrol cutter.

I like to think the ship's a little older than the Reliant, hence the TOS-ish bridge set (love that chunky red railing!) and Phase II bridge module.

 

[Timo]

It's interesting that two of the classes from the late 23rd century had large bays.

Or at least multiple bays. Perhaps the reason for that is that they are so small? Installing all those external gadgets onto the Soyuz may have also involved stuffing her interiors with new gear, some of which ate into the shuttlebay volumes so much that a third bay had to be introduced?

Would the deck in the extension bay be different from the deck for the other bays, as it is located above the fusion reactors which power the impulse engines?

Perhaps. Or then the fusion reactors stay where they originally were, and it's just pure power that gets piped to the aft nozzle thingies.

Yet I don't see the proximity of power systems affecting shuttlecraft operations one way or the other, really. The bay of Kirk's ship was right next to the stems of the warp engine pylons, and in some interpretations a next-door neighbor to the main engineering facility.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm fan of Diane Carey's USS Bozeman backstory from the novel Ship of the Line, where it's a border patrol cutter.



I like to think the ship's a little older than the Reliant, hence the TOS-ish bridge set (love that chunky red railing!) and Phase II bridge module.

There is that possibility, but I think it's more likely that it's slightly newer since it also possesses:

• A higher registry number than Reliant (as well as the Saratoga from TVH) - yes, I know it was an in-joke referencing the "1941" movie, but still a canonically higher registry that isn't too outlandish in-universe, considering the Excelsior was 2000.
• Late-23rd/early 24th century-style MSD's and other graphics, more closely resembling what the Enterprise-A and -B used.
• 24th century-style control console behind the center seat (which also looked newer/bigger compared to the Enterprise-nil and Reliant).

I suppose it could be argued that the latter two items may simply be the result of refit/upgrade tech being installed on an older spaceframe, in which case there is still remains the registry number which implies a slightly newer design.

 

[Dukhat]

(There are two Galaxy-class starships. The first is mentioned in The Treaty of Armens, a treaty that isn't amended or altered since its signing in 2255.)

So that means that either there was a previous, older class of vessel referred to as "Galaxy class" circa 2255, or that the Federation updated the treaty and didn't make that common knowledge. I'm guessing the second option is the correct one, since I'm sure the guy creating these graphics IRL was referring to the Enterprise-D when he wrote "Galaxy class starship."

I like to think the ship's a little older than the Reliant, hence the TOS-ish bridge set (love that chunky red railing!) and Phase II bridge module.

But bridges have never been consistently portrayed as far as determining the age of a ship. For example, the bridge of each Miranda class vessel we've seen (Reliant, Saratoga I, Lantree, Brattain, and Saratoga II), have all been different, ranging from TMP-era, Galaxy class battle bridge, and late-24th-century tech.

 

[yenny]

When I first seen the episode.I thought that, base on all the torrents, and what look like cannons it had and the class itself being decommission during the time the Constitutions were being decommission.

That the Soyuz class were commission sometime before the Romulan War and that they were one of the class of starships that had fought in the war; And reason the glow of the impulse engine couldn't be seen. Is cause it was protective by aft section that protect it from enemy fire, which would had stop the ship cold in space. Cause I thought back then, before a starship could go to warp. It had to reach the speed of light and by shooting it impulse engines and disabling them, kelp them from going to warp.

 

[Dukhat]

That the Soyuz class were commission sometime before the Romulan War and that they were one of the class of starships that had fought in the war;

Um, the Romulan war was 100 years before TOS and was fought between Earth and the Romulans. The Soyuz class was a Federation starship from the 2280's, after TMP.

 

[Timo]

So that means that either there was a previous, older class of vessel referred to as "Galaxy class" circa 2255

Or, possibly, "galaxy-class", as the treaty is in ALL CAPS. The use of a hyphen there is a bit atypical for Star Trek, too...

It would be easy to speculate that "galaxy-class" is a general category of ships, especially considering the usage in the treaty. Kirk's Constitution class Enterprise may have been a galaxy-class vessel, for example, as opposed to lesser ships possibly categorized as sector-class or system-class due to their shorter reach and thus lesser significance to the galaxy-spanning treaty.

Granted that the treaty excerpts are essentially nonsensical. But if we're to treat the text as sensible, interpreting "GALAXY-CLASS" as referring to a class of vessels (in the same sense as Galaxy class or Oberth class) won't work. Why would the Sheliak only want this one class to carry the required official, without even specifying that Starfleet must keep on operating ships of that class to begin with?

...It's a wholly separate issue that I happen to believe in a 23rd century galaxy class of starships. That is, it's a class of ships where each vessel is named after a (dwarf) galaxy, and covers the ships mentioned in Voyda McIntyre's novels. Parallel to Royal Navy county class there - no HMS County in existence, but plenty of ships with the names of counties. On a similar vein, perhaps Kirk's old ship belonged to the starship class, where each vessel was (for the first time) named after a famed historical starship?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[yenny]

That the Soyuz class were commission sometime before the Romulan War and that they were one of the class of starships that had fought in the war;

Um, the Romulan war was 100 years before TOS and was fought between Earth and the Romulans. The Soyuz class was a Federation starship from the 2280's, after TMP.

Stop using part of what Ive posted and put it out content. I've never posted that the Soyuz class were decommission before the finding of the Federation,I posted that they were decommission during the time the Constitution Class were decommission. Which would put it in the late 2280s. And there's nothing on screen or off screen mention of when the Soyuz class were commission, only when they were decommission.

Eventhough I did posted that they were commission sometime before the Romulan War. But that doesn't mean I'm right. They could had been commission way back then or a few years before the USS. Bozeman left on it maiding voyage.

Even If they were commission sometime before the Romulan War? They were still in service 80 years before the episode, Cause and Effect had taken place. Which would had made them Federation starships at the time of the founding of the Federation. As well as all the starships classes that were commission sometime before the founding of the Federation will become Federation starships as well.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Based on the technology used in the Bozeman's architecture, both internally and externally, (and the fore-mentioned registry number) there is absolutely no logical way the Soyuz class would be from the Romulan War era. Absolutely none. I won't even address the "Founding of the Federation" statement, as it's equally inexplicable. Nothing personal - it's just factually wrong. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical. What Dukhat referred to was not taking what you said out of context, but rather a direct quote. Since it is a completely erroneous statement, context or not, supposition or not, and based on what is known in the canon, he correctly pointed out the error.

 

[Dukhat]

Stop using part of what Ive posted and put it out context.

I didn't put your quote out of context. You stated that the Soyuz class was commissioned during the Romulan War of 2160. I stated that the class was in operation during the 2280's, which is over 120 years later. That is implausible because:

And there's nothing on screen or off screen mention of when the Soyuz class were commission, only when they were decommission.

There doesn't need to be a mention. The design of the ship is all we need to know that it's a contemporary of the TMP Constitution and Miranda classes, not a contemporary of a ship from 120 years before, such as the NX-01 and her sister ships from ENT.

Eventhough I did posted that they were commission sometime before the Romulan War. But that doesn't mean I'm right. They could had been commission way back then or a few years before the USS. Bozeman left on it maiding voyage.

And again, based on the ship's design attributes, it was most likely commissioned around the time the original Enterprise underwent its refit, i.e. 2270.

They were still in service 80 years before the episode, Cause and Effect had taken place. Which would had made them Federation starships at the time of the founding of the Federation.

80 years before "Cause and Effect" would be in the 2280's, not 2161. Your math is in error.

Why would the Sheliak only want this one class to carry the required official, without even specifying that Starfleet must keep on operating ships of that class to begin with?

Because the Sheliak are the most anal-retentive aliens in the galaxy?

 

[Wingsley]

That TNG-ish console looks really out-of-place on the deck of a TMP-era starship. It screams "budget crunch" to me.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Maybe not "budget crunch". Maybe the TMP-era consoles are not available, so we're grab what we have and hope the audience doesn't see it.

 

[Wingsley]

We really do not know how far back the Soyuz-class starship's design lineage could be traced. It looks like a Miranda-class derivative, but who knows? And how far back would the Miranda's design lineage go? 2265? 2245? Why not 2200 or even the earliest days of the Federation? Canon seems to at least vaguely suggest that there were multiple classes of Federation starships in service throughout the history of the Federation, supposedly suggesting an evolution of design and also a broad mix of designs to carry out various functions needed.

We don't really know what the Soyuz-class starships' official function was, how/why they were built, or what the history was of the class and its lineage. We can only speculate on some very scant facts. Just about everything we know (visual effects aside) about the Bozeman / Soyuz was taken from the discussion on the Enterprise-D's bridge following the Bozeman's hailing:

WORF: Captain, we are being hailed by the other vessel. The computer identifies it as the USS Bozeman, a Federation starship... Soyuz class!

LAFORGE: Soyuz class?! They haven't been in service in over eighty years!

PICARD: Open a channel...

BATESON (on viewscreen, speaking from the bridge of the Starship Bozeman): This is Captain Morgan Bateson of the Federation Starship Bozeman. Can we render assistance?

PICARD: I'm Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise. We were just going to ask you the same thing.

BATESON (on viewscreen): Captain Picard, your vessel is not familiar to us...

PICARD: Captain, have you any idea what has just happened?

BATESON (on viewscreen): Our sensors detected a temporal distortion... Then your ship appeared... We nearly hit you...

PICARD: The Enterprise has been caught in temporal causality loop, and I suspect that something similar may have happened to you.

BATESON (on viewscreen): You must be mistaken. We left starbase only three weeks ago.

PICARD: Captain, do you know what year this is?

BATESON (on viewscreen): Of course, I do. It's twenty-two seventy-eight.

PICARD: Perhaps you should beam aboard our ship. There's something we need to discuss.

As this episode had supposedly taken place in 2368, we can readily assume the Bozeman was displaced 90 years into her future. We can also assume that since the Soyuz-class of starships "haven't been in service in over eighty years", the useful (for Starfleet) lifespan of Bozeman and her sisterships ended about ten years after she disappeared from her native time.

It has been pointed out (non-canon) that the people in the studio who came up with the Bozeman's design wanted the unusual spire-like projections to be sensors or some similar instrumentation. There are multiple phaser banks visible on the surface of Bozeman's hull, but no clearly visible photon torpedo launchers. While this does not clearly preclude the possibility that Soyuz-class vessels could have a strong military design, it is interesting to note that if the Bozeman needed the famous "roll bar" armament of the Reliant/Saratoga, she easily could have had it. Instead, Okudagrams seem to assign importance to the aft projections that were said to be sensor or sensor-like equipment. This suggests a much stronger scientific/intelligence emphasis.

The Soyuz-class was already in service when Captain Bateson left his starbase just weeks before the Bozeman's encounter with the time warp. We know this class was in Federation use for about another ten years. We can logically assume that other starship-classes (perhaps the Constellation-class, the Excelsior-class or possible derivative-classes of these ships) replaced the Soyuz in the performance of her (presumably) science/intelligence duties.

Since it has been shown that ships like Kirk's Enterprise were in service for at least 35 years prior to the Bozeman's time warp displacement, and that the Federation made the practice of upgrading and refitting older ships to newer standards, and that the Enterprise-A soldiered on clear into the 2290s, it can be assumed that Soyuz, or her design lineage, if any, could easily go back in time to at least the 2260s. (Fans have supposed this in their artwork.)

If we assume that, for sake of argument, the Federation had long-term goals involving the deployment of starships for special command scientific and/or special command intelligence mission profiles, and that it had been practice for at least a couple of decades (perhaps longer) that said profile was typically assigned to a limited-production modified Miranda-type frigate design, one could call this ship a "command science heavy frigate" or a "command intelligence heavy frigate".

 

[Dukhat]

We really do not know how far back the Soyuz-class starship's design lineage could be traced. It looks like a Miranda-class derivative, but who knows? And how far back would the Miranda's design lineage go? 2265? 2245? Why not 2200 or even the earliest days of the Federation?

By "design lineage," do you mean a ship with a saucer and two nacelles? Then yes, that design lineage goes back to the pre-Federation days with the NX-01. But the aforementioned poster was not referring to "design lineage;" he was referring to the actual Soyuz class as we saw it in "Cause and Effect." To think that that class of ship was built in 2161 is absurd.