Series 5 'Bible' spoilers
- Thread starter denmaroca
- Start date
I suspect the person making these "spoilers" up picked Celtic purely because Moffatt is Scottish.
While I'm taking this all with a grain of salt, I'd be interested to see how these three races would be "updated" for NuWho. They did good with the Sontarans, I think.
The thing about Eddie is that, unlike many, he actually names his sources, and they are often people you could contact if you'd pick up the phone (and lived in the UK, cuz, you know, international rates are high).
When last seen in Who, the Monk had been colluding with the Daleks.
a. They may have hidden him away themselves.
b. Since Caan penetrated the Time Lock and changed some Dalek history, all bets are off. Gallifrey may have still been destroyed, but some Time Lords may now have survived.
Yeah, but... It'd be frickin' lame!
"O woe is me, for I am the last of the Time Lords."
"No you're not! Bastard!"
"Crap, it's the Master! *Master dies* O woe is me, for I am once again the last of the Time Lords!"
"Not anymore! Hi Dad!"
"Jenny! Crap- I mean, hey, cool, I'm a father again! *Jenny dies* O woe is me, for I am the Last of the Time Lords!" *doesn't see Jenny get up and run off*
"No you're not!"
"Gasp! The Meddling Monk! O woe is me, for I am the Almost Last of the Time Lords!"
Well, if Eddie (I think it's Eddie) ain't b'sing us, then the plot has something to do with the Master and the Monk trying to resurrect the Time Lords "one renegade at the time." It's either for S5 or for one of the latter end specials. My understanding is also that once the Dalek 2 parter is done, they're done with the Daleks for quite some time - no more bringing them back every series. That leaves a "power gap" for ubervillains, one that is logically filled by either something/someone new (which I would much prefer) or the Time Lords themselves.
I guess, and I do mean guess, the idea is to pose a dilemma for the Doctor - if he works against them, then he's the destroyer of his own race, not once, but twice. If he doesn't then he runs the risk of a group of Time Lords who'll use their power for eeeeevil, which makes them no better than the Daleks. I think that is an interesting way to bring them back. We've already had the Daleks and Davros brought back from beeeeyyyyyoooonnnnd the grave, so why not the Time Lords now that we're five years into new Who and on top of that a new production team is taking the reins?
I guess, and I do mean guess, the idea is to pose a dilemma for the Doctor - if he works against them, then he's the destroyer of his own race, not once, but twice. If he doesn't then he runs the risk of a group of Time Lords who'll use their power for eeeeevil, which makes them no better than the Daleks. I think that is an interesting way to bring them back. We've already had the Daleks and Davros brought back from beeeeyyyyyoooonnnnd the grave, so why not the Time Lords now that we're five years into new Who and on top of that a new production team is taking the reins?
Because it's just lame. It's a bad idea. Part of the dramatic power of the new show has been the Doctor's awareness that he is the last of his kind -- that on the day he dies, his species will go extinct. It's been a major theme, this whole "Last of the Time Lords" (the description, not the episode) thing. To bring the Time Lords back basically undermines the dramatic integrity of the first four seasons of the show and makes a mockery of the very idea that there's any real validity to the potential threat of death to the Doctor or other characters.
Basically, they shouldn't be resurrected for the same reason dead characters should in general not be resurrected: Why should the audience take the show seriously if the show doesn't take death seriously?
Personally I think they should never have all been killed off in the first place.
Sci, I'll thank you to not be so pretentious and keep assuming YOU and YOU ONLY know what themes and dramatic power of the show is or are.
personally, i think if they bring back the Master and the Monk and they're trying to bring back all the eeeeevil Time-Lords, it could be quite interesting...
and if they finally stop bringing the Daleks back every season after saying 'OHO! It's the end of the Daleks!' i'll be quite bloody grateful...
personally, i think if they bring back the Master and the Monk and they're trying to bring back all the eeeeevil Time-Lords, it could be quite interesting...
and if they finally stop bringing the Daleks back every season after saying 'OHO! It's the end of the Daleks!' i'll be quite bloody grateful...
Personally I think killing off the Time Lords was and still is the best creative decision Davies made in setting up the new series.
To put it another way:
No one wants to read a Harry Potter story set in a world where James and Lily did not die. No one would be interested in Batman if Thomas and Martha Wayne are still around. No one would read Superman if Krypton was his homeworld.
The Doctor derives a significant percentage of his dramatic power as a character from the mystery of the Time Lords, from their absence. Stories of Cato are powerful because Rome fell; stories of Merlin are powerful because no one really knows where he came from. So it is with Doctor Who -- killing off all the Time Lords is brilliant.
I never said any such thing. It goes without saying that my arguments are my opinions -- but when I talk about this stuff, I approach it the same way (albeit considerably less developed) that I would if I were to analyze any work of literature. I talk about what is in there that, in my opinion, works and lends depth to it. If you don't like that, well, terribly sorry, but this IS a discussion forum centered around people's opinions.
I can agree on that one!
I'm not one to readily agree with Sci on many things, but in this case I think he's correct, and your complaint about the Daleks is essentially the same one we're making about the Timelords!
I'd agree the idea of just evil Timelords remaining is interesting, but if they do it then bring a load back and knock the 'Last of the Timelords' notion on the head permanently.
i know this is a place to discuss opinions, but sometimes Sci, you seem to take things WAY too seriously and i really keep getting a vibe from you that your opinions are some how greater than anyone else's.
and frankly, if Tom and Martha Wayne lived, Batman wouldn't exist, so that's a spurious analogy.
i do agree, that HP would be less interesting if Jim and Lilly lived, but making that comparison to Who is also a flaw precept since the show existed for 20-odd years with an extant Time-Lord species and did alright.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, IMO what makes Who is having the eccentric alien bopping around time-and-space in a blue police box, with some foxy chick (and maybe a guy too) fighting evil aliens. THAT is Who's great dramatic power and concept.
and frankly, if Tom and Martha Wayne lived, Batman wouldn't exist, so that's a spurious analogy.
i do agree, that HP would be less interesting if Jim and Lilly lived, but making that comparison to Who is also a flaw precept since the show existed for 20-odd years with an extant Time-Lord species and did alright.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, IMO what makes Who is having the eccentric alien bopping around time-and-space in a blue police box, with some foxy chick (and maybe a guy too) fighting evil aliens. THAT is Who's great dramatic power and concept.
The Master was set up from the start though.
http://p083.ezboard.com/fglittersca...ageRange?topicID=203.topic&start=101&stop=120
Davies found a clever way of bringing the Master back and if needed I'm sure that it's possible that somebody might bring back new Time Lords but it doesn't seem that way right now. Personally it doesn't matter all that much to me as long as it's a good storyline, they've IMO found inventive ways of bringing back several old favorites so far I don't see a way they can't be creative in bringing back the Time Lords if they need to but as if right now I don't see the need.
Well, that vibe isn't one I'm meaning to put out. But I do happen to think that my opinions are right, and I'll outline them very strongly.
Depends on how you define "alright." As I understand it, the show was basically considered a joke for 20-odd years -- the British equivalent of Power Rangers. I'd hardly cite that era as one that the current show ought to aspire towards.
No, that's its format, the plot and style in which its dramatic power and depth manifest themselves. They're not the same thing. Rent and Harry Potter, for instance, derive their dramatic power and depth from the same basic concept: The inevitability of death and how people choose to live with that knowledge. But their plots and styles are very different; Rent is a stage musical that utilizes the conventions of modern theatricalism whilst Harry Potter is a series of novels using the conventions of magical realism and traditional fantasy.
See, I would argue that the Master is literally the only exception to the "Time Lords are dead" rule they should ever have made -- and that's only because of the intensely person and antagonistic nature of their relationship. No other Time Lord antagonist had such a personal relationship with the Doctor, and no other Time Lord that he had a personal relationship with was an antagonist. Bringing him back let them explore his loneliness all the more, by essentially dangling in front of him food that he could never have, so to speak -- another Time Lord, but one he could never truly trust.
Now, I've no doubt that Moffat could find a way to bring the Time Lords back. It might be fun and clever. But it would ultimately rob the previous seasons of their dramatic integrity. It's like Starkers said: How is bringing the Time Lords back any different from bringing the Daleks back? (And, yeah, I'm thoroughly in the "Daleks need to go away for a very long while" column.)
The problem with resurrections is that if you see them enough times, you stop caring about the threat of death. And on an adventure show like Doctor Who whose drama is dependent upon the threat of imminent danger to its character, that fundamentally undermines the entire series.
You're talkin' 'bout my favorite musical of all time, there. Watch your tongue.
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Nah, I can't see a reason for Moffat to bring back the Time Lords I think he's going to leave things as is and not change as much as people might think, but it's possible that some future producer might do it. And I too think that Davies left the Master open for a return and he did that story in the three part third season finale, which IMO was one the best Master stories ever so I don't see the need for him to return anytime soon either.