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Re-Watching DS9

Lord Garth

Admiral
Admiral
I'm kicking off a new re-watch. I started in 2019 by re-watching every episode of TNG before Picard premiered. After Picard ended last year, I decided to finish what I started by re-watching DS9 and VOY. I re-watched VOY first because I figured if Legacy happens (emphasis on IF), Seven of Nine would be Captain. Now it's onto DS9.

I'll be watching B5 for the first time as well. Mainly because I want to have an opinion of my own on the B5 vs. DS9 Argument and it's something I've put off for 30 years. This is going to be a DS9-focused, DS9-tilted thread first and foremost. Anything B5-related, I'll put in Spoiler Tag so, if you're not here for that, you don't even need to see it.

I've been a Star Trek fan for almost 35 years. I watched DS9 when it was on in the '90s, then I drifted away from it after it ended. This is my first time diving back into the whole thing in quite a while. It'll be interesting to see how my perspective has changed. Not only because I'm sure I'll see things differently in my 40s than I did in my Teens, but because before I could only compare DS9 to Star Trek before it and alongside it; whereas now I can compare DS9 to what came after it as well (though I'll keep that to a minimum).

My goal is to time this re-watch so that I reach "Past Tense" on August 30th, 2024. I'll get a big kick out of watching it on the same day that Sisko, Bashir, and Dax are sent back to. ;)

To kick this off, I'll be dropping my review of "Emissary" sometime overnight! See you then.

Special Thanks to @Farscape One for the suggestion to start this thread. I never bothered with a dedicated thread for my TNG or VOY re-watches.
 
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I'm curious about how you're going to watch a 110 episode series alongside a 173 episode series. Three episodes of DS9 then two of B5?

Hey, I just checked and if you include the movies that actually works out pretty well. Don't watch In the Beginning at the beginning!
 
I'm going strictly by airdate order.
That could work out. It'll be unevenly balanced, with blocks of just one show on its own, and you won't be able to shuffle B5 back into a more optimal viewing order (only a few eps are out of place, no big deal), but B5's late start means that DS9 will have plenty of time to develop momentum.
 
That could work out. It'll be unevenly balanced, with blocks of just one show on its own, and you won't be able to shuffle B5 back into a more optimal viewing order (only a few eps are out of place, no big deal), but B5's late start means that DS9 will have plenty of time to develop momentum.
I have a work-around for B5 episodes between DS9 seasons. I'll do them all in one or two posts and put a TNG episode that relates to DS9 up top. So, for instance, "The Wounded" and then, in Spoiler Code, 10 (or whatever) B5 episodes in the same post. Something like that.

EDITED TO ADD: Putting "Emissary" on momentarily. I'll be watching it on DVD on my Projector instead of through Paramount+. I think playing it on DVD will make it look better than if I went with streaming. And my projector is 720p, so it'll be even more forgiving of 480p if it's in the highest possible quality.

DOUBLE-EDIT: Yeah. This works. I can live with DVD-quality on a 720p Projector. Thank God.
 
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"Emissary"

Seeing the Saratoga fight the Borg and lose immediately shows how bleak the Battle of Wolf 359 was for Starfleet. Sisko looking at Jennifer's corpse, helpless to do anything, and barely escaping conveys a lot of raw emotion, accentuated with Sisko's glare as the Saratoga blows up. You immediately get why Sisko would harbor a lot of ill-will towards Picard, whether he was in control of his actions or not. The rational part of Sisko might understand, but the irrational part doesn't. Sisko is a much more emotional commander, less reserved, and more hands on. You can see it as soon as he leaves the bridge, and on his way to rescue Jake and as he tries to rescue Jennifer.

David Carson's direction already stands out less than 10 minutes in. I can see why he was chosen to direct the first TNG Movie. Very visceral and close-ups shots are used at the most character-driven beats, sometimes with angles facing upward, making them look more dramatic than just shooting straight ahead.

When we first see Odo and we first see the Shape-Shifter effect, it might not seem like a big deal now but, in January 1993, this was maybe a year-and-a-half after Terminator 2 hit theaters with the T-1000. And the effects with Odo were being done on a TV budget! For the time and the money they had, the effects were pretty damn impressive.

Odo is no-nonsense.

Quark is the best Ferengi up to this point in Star Trek. By a wide margin.

We already knew O'Brien from TNG, so he was like an anchor, going into this series.

I know that DS9 was originally developed with Ro in mind, but I think Kira isn't like Ro. I think Kira is the opposite of Ro. Kira wears her emotions and frustrations on her sleeve. Ro like to repress everything, even though she really can't, has an attitude, and has a hard time opening up. Kira's right up front.

Jake is just a normal 14-year-old boy. Which makes him the opposite of Wesley.

Nog is basically just a hooligan at this point.

And now the scene where Sisko first meets with Picard. I can see Sisko's point of view but, after my TNG re-watch and after having gotten to watch even more of Picard in PIC, I feel like I can see Picard's point of view too. Better than I could've before. After Picard says, "Dismissed" at the end, you can see his facial expressions, and you see the regret Picard still feels about Wolf 359. What can he say to this person? Sisko doesn't know Picard like those us who've watched TNG and PIC do.

After the meeting, when Sisko blackmails Quark into becoming Community Leader, I loved that entire exchange. To quote Odo, "Seems reasonable. You have all the character references of a politician." "You are a liar and a thief." I get way, way, WAAYYY more out of that now than I did when this episode first aired. I was 13. But I love that line now!

One thing that definitely set Sisko apart from Kirk and Picard was that he was a father and raising his son. He was able to talk to Quark about Nog in a way that Kirk or Picard wouldn't have been able to. "I'm a father myself. I know what your brother must be going through. He belongs with his family, not in a cold jail cell." And when Sisko is able to manipulate Quark, that's when Odo starts to like Sisko. "You know, at first I didn't think I was going to like him." I actually had that thought about Odo at first. He sounded interesting on paper, then he seemed so gruff in his opening moments, but by the end of that scene, I started to like Odo.

Then we get to see more about Sisko being hands-on as he helps Kira clean wreckage on the Promenade. I love how Kira thinks that Sisko thinks he's above it all, and then Sisko shows he's not like that at all and his willing to get his hands dirty as well. I think this scene was meant to contrast DS9 with TNG. No one's above anything. There's a mess they have to clean up, figuratively and literally. This scene provides a nice bridge into the next scene as Sisko meets Kai Opaka. Kira expects the Bajoran Provisional Government to fall within a week, then Starfleet will be gone, and Civil War will break out. That's the mess. Kira tells Sisko about Opaka and how she can bring every faction together, thus preventing Civil War and bringing unity. So what does Sisko do? He goes to see Opaka. Clean the mess.

The temple Kai Opaka resides in looks very intricate. It looks impressive for 1993 TV. Sisko's pain, because he doesn't want to be on DS9, tells Kai Opaka what she needs to know that he's the Emissary. His experiences made him he person Bajor needs. What I remember from later on in DS9 is that a lot of Bajoran politicians are hungry for power. Kai Winn will be the most notorious case, but several others as well. Sisko, not actively seeking a role to lead, I think is what Kai Opaka sees in Sisko. He's not serving his own interests as the Emissary, which means he wouldn't be selfish about it, and no believing it's for him would mean he wouldn't let it get to his head.

When Sisko has his first Orb Experience, let me say this, I definitely have a different perspective on this scene NOW than as a teenager. Where do I begin? First, up front, I think this is a nice scene and I like it a lot, BUT Sisko is waaaayyyyy too forward with Jennifer. And way too fast! "Jennifer, have a lemonade!" "It's not every day you meet the woman you're going to marry!" "You're supposed to say yes!" Wow. He sure is sure of himself. ;) It's left to the viewer to decide if this is what actually happened or if this is Sisko knowing what he knows now and saying things he didn't with foreknowledge of what's to come. I like that it wasn't entirely clear. But one thing that is clear is the chemistry between Sisko and Jennifer. Then it's followed by a scene on the station where Sisko tells Jake, "I was just thinking how much you look like your mom." Putting those scenes next to each other enriches the context and makes you appreciate both that much more.

Speaking of sets that look impressive for 1993 TV. The Promenade! Unlike when we first see the Promenade in the episode, the next time we see it, after Quark decides to stay, his establishment is lit up and open for business! It's sort of like a Space Las Vegas. Maybe, maybe not, but you get the idea. The set is large, expansive, lots of contrast between the lights, and the Cardassian color-scheme, all the patrons (including Morn!) and the Dabo Table. Lots of ambiance. Lots of activity. The Promenade is about as different from Ten Forward as you can get. And about as far from Starfleet as you can get.
 
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I think my post was getting too long. It wouldn't let me post the rest. I could've sworn I've made longer posts before, but anyway, better safe than sorry. Continuing on.

The first scene between Sisko and Dax gives a pretty sense of the Dax character. She's wise but not above-it-all. She can be down-to-Earth, or rather down-to-Bajor, and is spiritual without being religious. She's the Science Officer. That makes her a contrast to Kira who's not down-to-Earth and is religious but never got a chance to get in touch with her spirituality. It's not something we see right here, but I think Dax and Kira will symbolize Science and Religion getting along and working together. As far as Dax and Sisko, I think their friendship is an example of how friendship can endure from one lifetime to the next. Definitely a sci-fi/fantasy concept, but also religious and especially if you believe in reincarnation. Jadzia isn't a reincarnation of Curzon but Jadzia Dax is as close to reincarnation, relative to Curzon Dax, as this series will get. "I'm still the same old Dax. More or less."

When Kira and Bashir have their scene together, it's crazy to think of how Bashir sounded. Kira's been through Hell. All her life. She didn't want this. She didn't want any of this. Then Bashir waltzes in and says, "I wanted this! This is where the adventure is! This is where heroes are made!" Yeah. Definitely the right thing to say right in front of Kira... :rolleyes:

I liked seeing the flashback when the Dax symbiont was transferred from Jadzia to Curzon. It gave a face to associate with Curzon whenever Sisko calls Jazia, "Old Man."

When O'Brien briefly visits the Enterprise to say goodbye, I appreciated the moment O'Brien got to have with Picard and it contrasted with Sisko. O'Brien actually knows Picard. In my head-canon, I think O'Brien wanted to say goodbye properly before he started his assignment on DS9 but didn't have time, they needed him right away. He didn't have time almost the entire time the Enterprise was docked at the station, and it was important to him to say his goodbyes will he still had a chance, before the Enterprise left.

Then as soon as the Enterprise leaves, Dukat shows up. Seeing him walk right in. Wow. We had no idea at the time... but you can see how slimy and untrustworthy he was even here. "I miss this office. I wasn't happy to leave it." Right there, from Day One! It was planted right there! The opening arc of DS9 Season 6 where Dukat had regained control of the station was inevitable. It was always there.

When Dukat asks Sisko what he thinks of Kai Opaka, you can just tell Dukat's met Opaka before. If it hasn't already happened in a novel set before the series, that's a story just waiting to be told. And maybe it has, it's been over 30 years. But, if it hasn't, it should.

Anyway, we've now had all our character introductions. Sisko and Dax have found the Denorios Belt, and they're on their way to find the Gateway to the Celestial Temple. This is where I'm going to stop things for now. The next part, I'm going to go at-length about, and I want to be wide-awake when I do it. Right now, in my time zone, it's 2:45 AM as of this typing and I'm getting tired.

Night everyone! I won't go this in-depth with episodes after "Emissary", but I wanted to get off the ground on a solid foundation, going into my take on everything the pilot introduced.
 
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It's left to the viewer to decide if this is what actually happened or if this is Sisko knowing what he knows now and saying things he didn't with foreknowledge of what's to come.

Amalgamating his many interactions into one, perhaps? Sort of like how biographical fiction will take artistic license and alter the timeline of real events to help with the pacing.

As far as Dax and Sisko, I think their friendship is an example of how friendship can endure from one lifetime to the next

Neither one of them is the same person they once were then, for different reasons. So it's an example of how you're still you, no matter what you've gone through, and you can look beyond the trauma and growth to find your friend again.
 
The pseudo-intellectualism was par for the course for Star Trek. It wasn't even unique for a Star Trek debut, being part of both TMP and Encouter at Farpoint. That was probably by design: Piller studies Farpoint to see how to frame the new series.

I think Emissary does better on the first contact with superior alien better than the other two stories for two reasons. First, it actually tries to address what makes the Profits superior much earlier. Second, it turns the first contact narrative on its head by focusing on self-discovery.
 
Are you going with the remastered BB5 in 4:3 or the 16:9 version? Either way enjoy.
Whatever's on Tubi.

I'm out of work, ate, got settled in, and getting ready to put on the rest of "Emissary"! Ironically, I stopped at the point where Part I ended when it was broken up into two parts for strip-syndication.

So, for the full '90s experience, let me add some trailers in before I resume.

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I'm kicking off a new re-watch. I started in 2019 by re-watching every episode of TNG before Picard premiered. After Picard ended last year, I decided to finish what I started by re-watching DS9 and VOY. I re-watched VOY first because I figured if Legacy happens (emphasis on IF), Seven of Nine would be Captain. Now it's onto DS9.

I'll be watching B5 for the first time as well. Mainly because I want to have an opinion of my own on the B5 vs. DS9 Argument and it's something I've put off for 30 years. This is going to be a DS9-focused, DS9-tilted thread first and foremost. Anything B5-related, I'll put in Spoiler Tag so, if you're not here for that, you don't even need to see it.

I've been a Star Trek fan for almost 35 years. I watched DS9 when it was on in the '90s, then I drifted away from it after it ended. This is my first time diving back into the whole thing in quite a while. It'll be interesting to see how my perspective has changed. Not only because I'm sure I'll see things differently in my 40s than I did in my Teens, but because before I could only compare DS9 to Star Trek before it and alongside it; whereas now I can compare DS9 to what came after it as well (though I'll keep that to a minimum).

My goal is to time this re-watch so that I reach "Past Tense" on August 30th, 2024. I'll get a big kick out of watching it on the same day that Sisko, Bashir, and Dax are sent back to. ;)

To kick this off, I'll be dropping my review of "Emissary" sometime overnight! See you then.

Special Thanks to @Farscape One for the suggestion to start this thread. I never bothered with a dedicated thread for my TNG or VOY re-watches.
Thank you for starting the thread. Great review of "EMISSARY" so far.

I didn't think about David Carson and GENERATIONS when you pointed out his directing style, but I see what you mean now. Your background in editing is another reason why I was interested in your reviews of both shows.

Looking forward to the rest!
 
"Emissary" (Continued)

When Sisko and Dax entire the wormhole and land on a "planet" that weirded me out when I watched it. In all the right ways. What Sisko and Dax see are what they expect to see and that tells us their outlook on the unknown. Dax sees something beautiful and serene. She doesn't have a fear of what she'll find out there. Sisko, on the other hand sees darkness and storms. His life is in darkness. The Borg were a storm. The Cardassians are another storm he wants to keep at bay. The risk of the Provisional Government falling apart is yet another storm. It's dark. It's grim. Sisko sees danger. Sisko sees the death of his wife. Dax sees a new life, a new day. She sees things completely different. Not just the visuals, but also in her outlook. When Sisko tells Dax, "You have a strange eye for beauty" it has double meaning. How can she look at the same things do differently? At the end of the scene, when the Orb reveals itself, it rapidly flashes back-and-forth between what Sisko sees and what Dax sees. A very creative use of blue-screen effects. Then the Orb sends Dax back to DS9 while Sisko is still with the Prophets.

So, this next part is a little hard to talk about. My mother died from cancer when I was 18. Some of you might know this, some of you don't. What I've never said is that Sisko here reminds me of my father and how he felt when my mother died and in the first years afterwards. We went to the cemetery last month, then he suddenly started crying and said it felt like yesterday. To him, much like with Sisko, it's not linear. "Emissary" took on added meaning when my mother died in a way that I wish it hadn't. My father eventually found someone else, he never remarried, but he's had the same girlfriend for over 20 years, they're happy together, and that's the last I'm going to say about my father. Moving along...

Linear Existence vs. Non-Linear Existence. It was interesting to see Sisko explain to the Prophets the past, the present, the future, the passage of time, and how it works. As a huge Back to the Future fan, I love that stuff. Sisko interacts with everyone on his mind. Jennifer, Jake, Opaka, Picard, Locutus (yes, I'll separate those last two as characters), and some others. I thought it was very creative for Sisko to use baseball to describe how events unfold to form a complete picture. I'm not a sports fan, but I recorded high school sports for several years as a Videographer and, from time-to-time, I'd still think of Sisko's analogy.

Sisko's main enemy in the series might be Dukat, but O'Brien's main enemy is the station's computer. Had to lighten the mood after the paragraph-before-last. :p

You know, I just had a thought. The Prophets are originally very hostile towards Sisko. They say he must be destroyed. Then Sisko reasons with them, and gets them to understand time. Since the Prophets exist in a Non-Linear fashion, maybe it was "after" this that they decided to incorporate Sarah Sisko so that she'd meet Joe Sisko. If that's the case, then Sisko exists because of a Predestination Paradox.

When Sisko is talking the Prophets, the color-grading is very yellow, very warm. I think the high color temperature shows all the emotions also being very high. It's everything boiling over underneath Sisko's surface that finally completely comes out. In fact, this type of color-grading is what David Carson would use in Generations, onboard the Enterprise, where Picard has grief of his own and a lot of emotions bubbling under the surface.

The Prophets keep taking Sisko to what's foremost on his mind. That's Jennifer's death. The Prophets don't understand why Sisko want to keep thinking about a time and place he doesn't want to be. I have my own take on that. Sisko is mentally there because it's the one thing he couldn't do anything about. It eats at him that this is the one thing he couldn't stop. And, in the process, it stops his life. His tries to continue, but keeps thinking back to that moment, and I think he was subconsciously trying to self-sabotage himself because he didn't want to live anymore. Jake is the only thing keeping him going. Deep Space Nine is a big assignment for him. Because of his want to self-sabotage, he wants to resign. He justifies it by saying this isn't a safe place to raise his son. He wants to be able to do something for Jake, when he couldn't do something for Jennifer.

Much less weighty is the B-story. But, considering how heavy the A-story is, we'll give that a pass under the circumstances. Dukat's ship had followed Sisko's Runabout into the Wormhole. Then the Wormhole collapsed itself while Sisko and the Prophets were talking about Linear Existence. Cardassian Reenforcements show up, and they want to attack the station. Because this episode came out three weeks after "Chain of Command", O'Brien telling Kira, "You know what they do to their prisoners" was very timely.

There are a couple of moments that look like they're more for the audience who's too used to TNG, rather than something that would make sense in-universe. When Kira says "Shields!" and O'Brien asks, "What shields?", it has "See? This isn't TNG!" written all over it. Even if Terok Nor had shields, the Cardassians probably saw them as one of the valuable things to remove in order to leave the station defenseless. And Kira would know that and would already know if they still had shields long before this scene. I'd think defenses would've been one of the first things she would've tried to find out about. But, if that's the worst I can come up with, still a pretty good scene.

Shit. I have to pause. I'm finally at the part where actually Sisko says the words, "No. It's not linear." This is too hard for me to watch. My eyes are watering up a little bit. I'm going to fix something more to eat, get another drink (non-alcoholic, just to be clear), and then come back to this. In a new post.

EDITED TO ADD: When Sisko had to look at Jennifer, dead, in real-time it was only for a few moments. My mother was in a hospital for three days, on morphine. I hope you don't know what it's like to watch a family member slowly die over a three-day period. I was there with my father and brother for all three of those days. Along with other family and friends who visited and were there with us.
 
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Okay. Back. I'm better now. Though, it's super-annoying sometimes waiting for something you're cooking to actually cook. But I'm ready to get back into this.

The station has nothing to defend itself with, but Kira uses a lot of guile to figure out how to deal with the Cardassians. And she's ready to fight them. She won't back down. "If you want a war, I'll give you one." When the Cardassisans attack DS9, the battle wasn't to the level of what we saw in the TOS Movies or will see later on in DS9 itself, but -- as short as it was -- I liked that there was more to it than what we'd normally see in TNG. Injuries, people running out of the Promenade, Bashir getting to show off his mojo as a doctor, and the larger sets make it look like there's a lot more movement and activity happening.

Sisko seems better after he emerges the Wormhole, dragging Dukat in tow. I think when Sisko sees Jake alright, he believes this is a place where Jake isn't going to die. This is huge for SIsko's character.

Huger is that when Picard returns, Sisko is able to talk to him about DS9's victory. Their interactions are night-and-day compared to their earlier scene. Sisko's no longer self-sabotaging, he knows he can protect his son, he sees Picard as Picard and not as Locutus, and now he wants to stay on the station.

A happier memory with my mother. When we were watching "Emissary" she laughed when Kira told Quark, "If you don't take your hand off my hip, you'll never be able to raise a glass with it again."

Roll credits.

This is one of my favorite Star Trek pilots. Up there with "The Cage", "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and "Remembrance". I give it a 10 out of 10.

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EDITED TO ADD: 25 years on TrekBBS and I've never taken four posts to go over one episode. That in and of itself should say something about how much thought was put into "Emissary". I wasn't just reacting to the plot or the theme. I was reacting to everything. Although...

I left out the bit about Odo being found in the Denorious Belt because I didn't want tack it on like "Emissary" did. I'll talk about it in an episode where it makes more sense to.

I'll finish this off with saying: Don't get used to me going over one episode in four posts. From here on out, I hope it's more like four episodes in one post! But whatever happens will happen. Some episodes I'll just have more to say about than others. :angel:
 
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I think people have really come around on Emissary over the years. I vaguely remember people thinking it was a bit slow and weird, but now people rank it as one of the best episodes of the first season.

Though it's the next few episodes I'm more curious about. Opinions online seem a bit divided, so I can't predict how you'll rate them.
 
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