PIC S3 Ships & Tech

[David cgc]

Anyway, has anyone spotted any fun tech-related tidbits on the new Roddenberry Archive starship museum? They have interactive models of the -F and -G bridges as seen on PIC. I haven’t had the chance to explore much myself, I don’t have access to my normal computer and can only see the thumbnail animation. I did see a screenshot in another post that apparently the -G Conference Lounge only has gold models of the TOS Enterprise, the -D, and the -G. It makes me wonder if they actually redressed the set that way; for a real set, it makes sense that they’d be limited by the three model mounts from when it was the Titan, if it was an invention of the RA team, I’d think they’d just jam in all eight (or more) Enterprises.

 

[NCC-73515]

The F...

...compared to the G

...which only has these in the conference lounge

 

[Tomalak]

Nice that it has the original Enterprise-D plaque from Farpoint.

There's not really room for all the Enterprises in that cabinet, so a selection is fair enough.

It also means that all the other Titans from Lower Decks can happily exist - Shaw was just showing the two most relevant predecessors, since the Shangri-la and the Luna were essentially combined for the Constitution III.

 

[Macintosh]

The Enterprise-G bridge doesn't seem to have a ready room, and the observation lounge has its own turbolift. Maybe the observation lounge pulls double duty as a ready room like the SNW Enterprise?

 

[Racefuel]

That seems the be the state of affairs yeah. Shaw used the lounge area as his ready room in the series also

 

[Tomalak]

Jörg has been looking at the formations - looks like they aren't supposed to be any kind of symbol, they're tactical formations. There are clusters of four Defiants at the top and various cruisers below.

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1652368567730335746?s=20

 

[Macintosh]

Jörg has been looking at the formations - looks like they aren't supposed to be any kind of symbol, they're tactical formations. There are clusters of four Defiants at the top and various cruisers below.

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1652368567730335746?s=20

As anyone who's ever played one of the Homeworld games would be able to confirm

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

As anyone who's ever played one of the Homeworld games would be able to confirm

I remember similar formations, but I don't remember them standing in space (relatively) and just firing at a StarBase.

In Homeworld, they were always moving, trying to get a better position, unless it was a "Encirclment Formation".

 

[Macintosh]

In Homeworld, they were always moving, trying to get a better position, unless it was a "Encirclment Formation".

Fighters, sure. Frigates and capital ships, less so.

 

[David cgc]

I had a thought earlier. Fleet Formation is a wild idea, and it's justified as being required in case the entire crew of a ship becomes incapacitated. Why in the world is that a concern, much less one big enough to justify reorienting the entire fleet's chain of command around it? Yes, the Changelings were pushing for it and could impersonate whoever they needed to whenever they needed to to get it to sail on through, but Shelby said it was the result of decades of work, so the groundwork predated this scheme. There had to be a good reason, one that could be sold to people in power that weren't or couldn't be impersonated, like Shelby, and the rank-and-file charged with implementing it. So what did Starfleet encounter, decades before PIC takes place, that could entirely incapacitate or kill a crew while leaving their starship unharmed and operating?

The Scimitar. Fleet Formation is an amped-up prefix code designed to be the counterbalance to thaleron weapons. Sure, a warbird could kill an entire fleet's crew in one blast, but that wouldn't stop their ships from continuing to fight against it under remote control or autopilot. If there were reports, true or fabricated, about thaleron weapons being developed in the former Romulan Empire, that'd be a winning argument for Fleet Formation.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I had a thought earlier. Fleet Formation is a wild idea, and it's justified as being required in case the entire crew of a ship becomes incapacitated. Why in the world is that a concern, much less one big enough to justify reorienting the entire fleet's chain of command around it? Yes, the Changelings were pushing for it and could impersonate whoever they needed to whenever they needed to to get it to sail on through, but Shelby said it was the result of decades of work, so the groundwork predated this scheme. There had to be a good reason, one that could be sold to people in power that weren't or couldn't be impersonated, like Shelby, and the rank-and-file charged with implementing it. So what did Starfleet encounter, decades before PIC takes place, that could entirely incapacitate or kill a crew while leaving their starship unharmed and operating?

The Scimitar. Fleet Formation is an amped-up prefix code designed to be the counterbalance to thaleron weapons. Sure, a warbird could kill an entire fleet's crew in one blast, but that wouldn't stop their ships from continuing to fight against it under remote control or autopilot. If there were reports, true or fabricated, about thaleron weapons being developed in the former Romulan Empire, that'd be a winning argument for Fleet Formation.

Here I thought you were talking about the Borg, or Holographic Insurgents from the Delta Quadrant, or the numerous times that mind control have been used to take over the crew and only a few people were left to try to take back control of the ship.

 

[matthunter]

Well, apart from Data, those aliens in TNG's Clues totally incapacitated the crew.

Why Fleet Formation is preferable to just programming the ship's computer with some simple "if crewstate = messed_up: do x" commands I'm not sure - not as flexible, but far less vulnerable to the kind of takeover we saw here. Hell, you could even have it contact Starfleet and request remote control, and not accept such orders unless it was in that state already - preventing ships with fully capable crews being suborned.

 

[Markonian]

It would be easier if the Federation nurtured its artificial lifeform populations and has crews customarily mixed between organic and inorganic (Exocomp, Photonic, Soong-types) people.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It would be easier if the Federation nurtured its artificial lifeform populations and has crews customarily mixed between organic and inorganic (Exocomp, Photonic, Soong-types) people.

That is my default setup in my 26th Century Head Canon.

Every StarShip, Shuttle, StarFighter has a KITT like AI that is an individual that works with it's organic partners.

We still have simpler AI that aren't sentient, basically Automatons.

The EMH and other Semi-Sentient AI all exist along with "The Doctor".

Soong-Type Androids are also around.

All mixed in with normal Organic Crew & even Cyborg crew members.

 

[Tomalak]

Starfleet keeps developing these advanced AIs to control Starships, but they inevitably go wrong or are exploited and kill everyone - M-5, Control, Texas-class, Synths, Fleet Formation.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now which is probably why organic crew remain firmly in control of their technology even in the 32nd century.

 

[Stuart Wilson]

Starfleet keeps developing these advanced AIs to control Starships, but they inevitably go wrong or are exploited and kill everyone - M-5, Control, Texas-class, Synths, Fleet Formation.

Just like the real world. The history of military tech is littered with mistakes where designers and engineers promise the world and fail to deliver. Anyone who has studied the history of weapons design would be able to avoid most of these pitfalls. However most politicians haven't and fall for them, and anyway, they'll be long gone before their decisions have consequences. I'm sure the same holds true in other areas of major procurement decisions. People have short memories.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Starfleet keeps developing these advanced AIs to control Starships, but they inevitably go wrong or are exploited and kill everyone - M-5, Control, Texas-class, Synths, Fleet Formation.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now which if probably why organic crew remain firmly in control of their technology even in the 32nd century.

Like a poor marksman, they KEEP. MISSING. the TARGET! Personally, I love how the Federation's "evolved sensibilities" bloviation bullshit is called out when they get taken to task for their openly bigoted views towards AI's like Data and genetically augmented people like Una and Dal. Have there been mess-up's in the past? Sure. To wholesale ban such things outright is not very "progressive" of them.

 

[fireproof78]

here had to be a good reason, one that could be sold to people in power that weren't or couldn't be impersonated, like Shelby, and the rank-and-file charged with implementing it. So what did Starfleet encounter, decades before PIC takes place, that could entirely incapacitate or kill a crew while leaving their starship unharmed and operating?

Well, it happened in TOS, TNG as well as various mind controlling aliens. It would not surprise me that something was enacted earlier than even this season. Trying to reduce rogue captains as well, like with the Valient or the Phoenix.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Personally, I love how the Federation's "evolved sensibilities" bloviation bullshit is called out when they get taken to task for their openly bigoted views towards AI's like Data and genetically augmented people like Una and Dal. Have there been mess-up's in the past? Sure. To wholesale ban such things outright is not very "progressive" of them.

The only reason to ban anything is out of an ongoing fear of something it could do, and that usually trumps any kind of evolved sensibility or progressiveness. In the case of synthetic life-forms, it might have been fear of beings with superior abilities that could malfunction without warning and cause mass death & destruction, with little that can be done to stop them. As far as Augments...I always felt the ban on them was generally taken out of context or dismissed too easily as "we don't want another Khan Noonien Singh." I think the ban on augmentation stems mainly from the Eugenics Wars, and they must have been so bad and so devastating that Earth didn't even want to take the smallest risk of it ever happening again, even if augmentation could produce something beneficial too. Sure, there are instances where the total bans on synthetics and Augments come across as irrational and even ridiculous, but fear can be that way, IMO.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Like a poor marksman, they KEEP. MISSING. the TARGET! Personally, I love how the Federation's "evolved sensibilities" bloviation bullshit is called out when they get taken to task for their openly bigoted views towards AI's like Data and genetically augmented people like Una and Dal. Have there been mess-up's in the past? Sure. To wholesale ban such things outright is not very "progressive" of them.

100% Agree.

Anybody with common sense could've seen that increasing "Aggression" in the natural Human Genome wasn't necessary.

We have plenty of that naturally, why on earth you needed to do that, was beyond me.

The only reason to ban anything is out of an ongoing fear of something it could do, and that usually trumps any kind of evolved sensibility or progressiveness. In the case of synthetic life-forms, it might have been fear of beings with superior abilities that could malfunction without warning and cause mass death & destruction, with little that can be done to stop them. As far as Augments...I always felt the ban on them was generally taken out of context or dismissed too easily as "we don't want another Khan Noonien Singh." I think the ban on augmentation stems mainly from the Eugenics Wars, and they must have been so bad and so devastating that Earth didn't even want to take the smallest risk of it ever happening again, even if augmentation could produce something beneficial too. Sure, there are instances where the total bans on synthetics and Augments come across as irrational and even ridiculous, but fear can be that way, IMO.

I concur. Fear leads to irrational behavior, and not willing to understand the other sides PoV.
That's why the "Total Bans" were bad ideas & stupid.

Logic/Empathy/Rational Thought is truly the way forward.

Julian Bashir is literally a perfect example of what proper raising of augments can do.

Nothing good comes with "Total Bans", no matter how good the intentions.
You only need to look at the US Prohibition era and how it gave rise and power to Mobsters and Crime.