People say Insurrection would've made a great TNG 2-parter TV episode. I disagree.

[The Rock]

Why do people keep saying this? I think it would've been a pretty mediocre TNG episode. My reasons are:

1) The Son'a weren't very compelling villains. In fact, they were pretty boring villains.

2) The story itself wasn't interesting. I mean, it wasn't even an actual insurrection. It was just SORT OF an insurrection against one corrupt admiral (a very common trope in Star Trek btw, which makes me wonder if Q was right about humanity all along.......but I digress). Big fucking deal! All of it seemed so small scale.

3) The writing was weak. A lot of Trekkies have made a compelling argument as to why the Ba'ku were actually in the wrong in this movie. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with them, but when you have a good number of Trekkies sympathizing with the bad guys then that's when you know the writing just wasn't that great. Even some of the TNG main cast weren't on the Ba'ku's side (in real life I mean)!

To summarize, just because it was a weak movie doesn't mean that it would've made for a great TV 2-parter. It was a weak movie and it would've been a weak TV episode as well.

 

[Tosk]

but when you have a good number of Trekkies sympathizing with the bad guys then that's when you know the writing just wasn't that great.

Dukat would like a word.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah it's funny how Insurrection pushes the 'is it ever okay to force X amount of people to relocate to benefit Y amount of other people?' argument so far it's like it's trying to convince us that Picard is wrong.

"Is it okay to move an entire race of people off their own world for our own benefit?"
"Ps. there are fewer people on the planet than there are on the Enterprise."
"And they moved to this planet, they weren't born here."
"In fact, the planet's actually in our space."
"Also the resources of the planet will heal billions."
"The Son'a on those ships will die without treatment."
"And..."

Okay fine, just move them, whatever!

 

[Qonundrum]

The original draft sounded interesting - an overview of it and the numerous changes culminating in the actual film (which has its ups and downs) can be found here:

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Is it accurate?

 

[Admiral Archer]

The original draft sounded interesting - an overview of it and the numerous changes culminating in the actual film (which has its ups and downs) can be found here:

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Is it accurate?

I went into this video expecting to be unconvinced that Insurrection could be a better film than it was. It is my second favorite TNG film (after First Contact) so I thought they did the best with what they had.

I was wrong.

It's rare for me to find a youtube video that can change my mind about anything, but this sure did. Also, I wish people wouldn't give Patrick Stewart so much input into the story. He's an actor first and foremost, and I honestly believe he doesn't understand what makes Picard or Star Trek great at all. If he does, it doesn't show.

 

[Fuddles]

I love Insurrection. Yes, it did seem like a 2 part TV episode but that didn't bother me.

Lock and load.

 

[ananta]

I agree. It would have been a bland, middle of the road two-parter and would have obviously looked a lot cheaper (not that INS the movie particularly wowed me, aside from some nice location scenery). The basic premise was flawed, flimsy and filled with enough plot holes to pilot the Enterprise through. It tried hard to be earnest and profound but it really failed to move me in the slightest. Plus, the Sona were bland villains and the humour didn’t land for me whatsoever.

 

[Humanoid #77]

Of all of the 13 ST movies, Insurrection is the only one I haven't watched in the theater (not the movie's fault ofc).

About one year later, I rented the DVD

I remember thinking every previous ST movie had felt it intentionally was produced/written/directed so to be enjoyable to "not-fans", and that somehow (as a fan) distracted me.

But this one with so many Data jokes and a fucking holoship, fucking transporter bullets, cloaking etc taught me being knowdgeable about ST could be a bad thing, because moviemakers used me to excuse themselves to be lazy

I may being unfair. It's been 30 years since I watched it

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

When you look at 2-parter's like Gambit, Insurrection would have fit in with no problems. Just another episode of TNG.

I say this as someone who really enjoys Insurrection. Calling it a big episode is a good thing as far as I'm concerned as those episodes are what I was a fan of.

 

[DonIago]

On the plus side, if it had been a 2-parter episode, maybe they would have taken the novel step of putting all the relevant parties in the same room to try to talk through the problem. After all, the PD didn't apply, so they had no -good- reason not to allow the Bak'u to weigh in on the situation.

Picard bemoans Our Heroes not getting to be explorers, and has a significant history as a diplomat, but I don't see much diplomacy or exploration in evidence during this film as released.

 

[ananta]

Picard bemoans Our Heroes not getting to be explorers, and has a significant history as a diplomat, but I don't see much diplomacy or exploration in evidence during this film as released.

I always kind of took that comment as a swipe at DS9, because that’s the criticism it got throughout its run (“it doesn’t GO anywhere!” plus the criticism that “Trek isn’t about WAR!”). Rationally, it doesn’t make sense Piller would criticise his own show, unless he was critical about its direction after he’d left it. Maybe they were trying to get the DS9 haters back on side and prove that “this is REAL Trek!”

Or maybe I’m tired and thinking too much. Good night all.

 

[DonIago]

I always kind of took that comment as a swipe at DS9, because that’s the criticism it got throughout its run (“it doesn’t GO anywhere!” plus the criticism that “Trek isn’t about WAR!”). Rationally, it doesn’t make sense Piller would criticise his own show, unless he was critical about its direction after he’d left it. Maybe they were trying to get the DS9 haters back on side and prove that “this is REAL Trek!”

Or maybe I’m tired and thinking too much. Good night all.

Given where the film goes, it shows an amusing lack of self-awareness if they're trying to have Picard argue that he's tired of war, since he seems to leap right in when given the opportunity...and it's not as though no other options were available to him.

I have Piller's book on the making of INS but I haven't had a chance to read it; I wonder whether it has anything to say about that line. I always read it more as a commentary on off-screen events, but if it was a swipe at DS9 (perhaps akin to the original plan to destroy Defiant in FC?), then that's really beneath TPTB.

 

[cgervasi]

When I saw in the theater I really missed TNG, so I saw it at least twice. I didn't notice the obvious flaws until later. I thought it was a good action episode/movie.

When I think about the movie now, I don't understand how no one knew the Son'a were from the Ba'ku were the same. We see Riker and Troi researching the Son'a. The Federation knew about them and about their crimes. I don't see how it benefitted the Son'a to hide that they were from the Ba'ku. I thought the Ba'ku knew who the Son'a were, and I don't know why they would hide this information. It just seems weird that they didn't figure it out sooner.

 

[DonIago]

I could see the Bak'u hiding it because once the relationship between them and the Son'a is made clear, the Federation is now sticking its nose into an internal affair.

The problem, of course, being that unlike the Klingon Civil War, in which The Good Guys ultimately came out on top, if the Federation left the Briar Patch then the Son'a might very well annihilate the Bak'u...though that also begs the question of how the Bak'u ever exiled the Son'a to begin with.

 

[cgervasi]

if the Federation left the Briar Patch then the Son'a might very well annihilate the Bak'u...though that also begs the question of how the Bak'u ever exiled the Son'a to begin with.

I never thought about that either. This is probably the movie of which my opinion decreased the most of any movie. I can't believe I saw it two or three times at age 23 and thought it was good. I guess I was jonesing badly for more TNG content.

We know the Bak'u had technology that they didn't use in their daily lives, so maybe they had weapons to oust the Son'a. Maybe their planet was actually the size of small moon, a step up from the Little Prince's planet, so it literally wasn't big enough for both of them. But if they had weapons why do they seem unable to resist when the Son'a attack? And why would the Son'a bother with the holo-ship instead of just attacking and occupying it, as attacking forces have done since ancient times? Maybe they wanted to sell the technology the Federation, and the Federation officials insisted no one get hurt.

 

[DonIago]

I think originally the Son'a were trying to be aboveboard about the whole thing and work with the Feds rather than sneaking into the Briar Patch, which would draw unwanted attention to what they were doing and could scuttle any chance they'd have of harvesting the rings. The Feds who were willing to relocate the Bak'u would then have forced the holoship plan given that they weren't going to sign off on killing 600 people.

But the whole thing just has so many unanswered questions, and it's ironic that after TNG took so much flak for the "let's all get together in the conference lounge and talk about it!" trope, this is exactly the kind of situation in which they should have all gotten together in the conference lounge and talked about it.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think Insurrection would've been a TNG two-parter. Or, if it had been, it would've had to have been changed quite a bit.

Series Picard would've used the system to fight Dougherty and stop the Baku from being relocated. He would've found some type of loophole or uncovered something while doing it above board, as opposed to taking off his pips and going down to the village.

The battle between the Enterprise and the Son'a ships would've played out a lot differently. No video game controller for Riker, and the battle would've looked less flashy and elaborate. Picard wouldn't have been duking it out with Ru'afo at the end and he wouldn't have been beamed away as Ru'afo would've met his fiery demise.

 

[DonIago]

For all the flak that Kelvinverse Kirk and Spock got about opening fire on Narada rather than beaming everyone off the ship, I rarely see anyone complaining about Our Heroes doing nothing to beam Ru'afo off the collector when there was no reason to believe they couldn't have done so.

 

[Lord Garth]

For all the flak that Kelvinverse Kirk and Spock got about opening fire on Narada rather than beaming everyone off the ship, I rarely see anyone complaining about Our Heroes doing nothing to beam Ru'afo off the collector when there was no reason to believe they couldn't have done so.

Agreed 100%.

I think Insurrection and Nemesis are effectively Proto-Kelvin Films. Especially Nemesis where all the action scenes become mind-numbing.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Agreed 100%.

I think Insurrection and Nemesis are effectively Proto-Kelvin Films. Especially Nemesis where all the action scenes become mind-numbing.

The main difference for me, is that the Kelvin films had the budget and the talent to make the action scenes work.

Also I think most of the complaining about Insurrection died down a long time ago. Not because people are more fond of it now, but because people rarely think about it at all. But that ending where they leave Ru'afo to die is dumb for so many reasons, including the fact that the Enterprise crew didn't know that the other guy on the collector with Picard wasn't helping him. The original ending played out differently, with Picard sabotaging the device and Ru'afo getting deaged to death, but that would've actually been been worse as it was a retread of Generations' ending.