One thing the Matrix sequels really did right

[V]

now some people...okay the general consensus, is that the Matrix sequels got a lot wrong

Now it helped that I was in philosophy courses at the time, but I thought "Matrix: Reloaded" was pretty good; it kind of lacked the "zing" of the original, but still had some good points; though I must say "The Burly Brawl" was a nightmare in which I literally said aloud "Dude, I can tell this is cheap CGI and not real!"........but it was actually *Revolutions*, not Reloaded, that got it wrong....that's when the plotlines were REALLY slapped together, the dialogue really bad.....and you know what? **on paper** its still a good-sounding storyline. I don't have problems with ESSENTIALLY what happened. Well the only 2 problems were 1-they should have had the Oracle actually explain what "The One" is and how Neo can do stuff in the real world, "You are the One" is not an answer, and more importantly 2----the entire third Matrix film felt like it was blatantly rushed through production to come out 6 months after the second one, even though they really should have waited a full year to edit it together better.

So my problem with "the Matrix sequels" is really that they felt rushed, but had good ideas. But I digress....

what I wanted to say, was that something I feel they *did* do right was their emphasis on casting multi-ethnic characters

Particularly in light of how say, "Avatar the Last Airbender" live-action movies are going to have an all-white cast, etc. There's all this news these days about anime adaptations obviously set in Japan or asian settings and being cast with white actors without even considering using asian ones.

And I realize....the Matrix sequels, when they show actually "Zion", did a good job of showing how it was actually people from all ethnic backgrounds and the future isn't just "all white"


***I.e., I think of.....yeah, it was the "Zion Council" of the 15 elders who rule Zion's government, they said that if you check, MOST are not white and MOST are women. There's only ONE who is both white and a man, Haman, though he is the one Neo interacts with the most.

 

[miraclefan]

I agree with you on the ''multi-ethnic charactors'' I think too many a sci-fi movie use's nothing but white people ''or'' if they do have someone that's not white it's always the towkin black guy! (who is always the first one to die in these types of movies) but in regard to the matrix flicks, I'm sorry, but I just saw both of them recently and they were trash! no two ways about it!

 

[Trent Roman]

Agreed, although I'm one of those who thought Reloaded was the better film of the three (I enjoyed the free will vs. determinism and life as mathematics aspects a lot more than the messianic juvenalia of the other two films; and more impressive FX overall, I think). Although most sci-fi films depict an essentially colour-blind future, actually casting still tends to be pretty Anglo-Saxon with a couple of minorities in 'buddy' roles or as figures of authority seen for two minutes. The Matrix movies went out of their way to feature a truly ethnically diverse cast from the principals all the way down to the extras. It's a sad thing that it should be remarkable for doing so.

Difference was not something the movies touched on overtly, although I know marginalia is something the Wachowskis enjoy playing with, because to foreground it would also be to undermine the idea of the colour-blind society. But it is useful to contrast the diversity of the rebels, on the ships and in Zion, with that of their main foes, the agents, who are all standardized as similar-looking white males. Particularly as the film progresses and Smith 'becomes' the Matrix, homogenization is shown as threatening and it is made clear that a lack of differentiation can only lead to entropy.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

what I wanted to say, was that something I feel they *did* do right was their emphasis on casting multi-ethnic characters

I agree. A very good job of inclusive casting -- extending to the multiracial Keanu Reeves in the lead.

Particularly in light of how say, "Avatar the Last Airbender" live-action movies are going to have an all-white cast, etc. There's all this news these days about anime adaptations obviously set in Japan or asian settings and being cast with white actors without even considering using asian ones.

To be fair, The Last Airbender's cast is no longer all-white. The three main protagonists and their relatives are still Caucasian, but the Fire Nation characters are being played by variously Indian/Central Asian actors (Dev Patel, Shaun Toub, Aasif Mandvi) or ones who can theoretically pass for Indian (Maori actor Cliff Curtis), and the Earth Kingdom characters are being played by Asian actors (Jessica Andres and Keong Sim have been announced so far). However, the bulk of the film is being shot in Pennsylvania, of all places, and it seems like they're going for a generically Asian look rather than following the distinct cultural delineations of the series (for instance, a Japanese-style pagoda built on Mount Penn has been used to represent the Southern Air Temple, which in the series was more Tibetan or something like that).

 

[Yassim]

From Roger Ebert's review of the second one -

It has become commonplace for science fiction epics to feature one or two African-American stars, but we've come a long way since Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi." The Wachowski brothers use so many African Americans, I suspect, not for their box-office appeal, because the Matrix is the star of the movie, and not because they are good actors (which they are), but because to the white teenagers who are the primary audience for this movie, African-Americans embody a cool, a cachet, an authenticy. Morpheus is the power center of the movie, and Neo's role is essentially to study under him and absorb his mojo.

So Ebert seems to think it's a calculated move on the part of the filmmakers - that the colour choices in the casting give the sci-fi aspects a little more credibility. It's an interesting point. Whatever the reason, it's nice to see. It also seems to highlight the white, uniform, orthodox enemy against a struggling, authentic, diverse humanity.

 

[Christopher]

I think Ebert was off-base there. For one thing, the Matrix films' diversity was not limited to "African-Americans." There are multiple actors in the cast of Asian or Pacific Islander descent, including Keanu Reeves himself (who's a bit of both), Marcus Chong, Julian Arahanga, Randall Duk Kim, Nathaniel Lees, Anthony Wong, and Collin Chou. For another, why do African-American actors have to be "symbols" for their presence in a movie to be justified?

 

[Trent Roman]

For a third, the 'cool' factor which Ebert is referring to that appeals to that demographic tends to be embodied by African-American males (and generally younger ones at that); I hardly need to enumerate the ways such media simultaneously maligns African-American women. The Matrix films have a number of black women in empowering roles - Jada Pinkett Smith, Gloria Foster/Mary Alice, Nona Gaye, Gina Torres; in other words, they purposefully cast to a diversity of ethnicity and gender, as Christopher said. Ebert's comment here seems like misdirected cynicism.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[V]

I agree with you on the ''multi-ethnic charactors'' I think too many a sci-fi movie use's nothing but white people ''or'' if they do have someone that's not white it's always the towkin black guy! (who is always the first one to die in these types of movies) but in regard to the matrix flicks, I'm sorry, but I just saw both of them recently and they were trash! no two ways about it!

Yeah the "the black guy always dies first" rule (I believe it was "Canadian Bacon" that actually called them on this; but some other stuff did too)

anyway, I'd say a major exception to that rule was "John Carpenter's The Thing" (1982)....there were two black guys, and both survived to the end and neither were secretly infected by the monster. I mean they end the blood-test scene, it turns out Palmer was replaced by a Thing and he kills Windows before MacCready kills him....but then they show that Garry, Nauls, and Childs are all also human. So they're down to the last FOUR guys in the movie out of an original 13, and both of the original black guys are still alive and human for the final act.

 

[V]

Particularly in light of how say, "Avatar the Last Airbender" live-action movies are going to have an all-white cast, etc. There's all this news these days about anime adaptations obviously set in Japan or asian settings and being cast with white actors without even considering using asian ones.

To be fair, The Last Airbender's cast is no longer all-white. The three main protagonists and their relatives are still Caucasian, but the Fire Nation characters are being played by variously Indian/Central Asian actors (Dev Patel, Shaun Toub, Aasif Mandvi) or ones who can theoretically pass for Indian (Maori actor Cliff Curtis), and the Earth Kingdom characters are being played by Asian actors (Jessica Andres and Keong Sim have been announced so far). However, the bulk of the film is being shot in Pennsylvania, of all places, and it seems like they're going for a generically Asian look rather than following the distinct cultural delineations of the series (for instance, a Japanese-style pagoda built on Mount Penn has been used to represent the Southern Air Temple, which in the series was more Tibetan or something like that).

[/quote]

Generically asian my a$$....they responded to fan complaints about "this is a show SET IN ASIAN CULTURES".....by recasting Zuko with Slumdog Millionaire Dev Patel (a fine actor, but stunt casting) ...then casting *generically "brown people" as the Fire Nation*

1-what, are all "dark skinned" people evil? The "bad guys" the Fire Nation get cast with dark skinned people? The funny thing is I thought the Water Tribes were an odd mix of Inuit culture with south asian ethnicity but...

2-THERE ARE NO EAST ASIAN PEOPLE IN THE AVATER MOVIES. What, epicanthal folds equals low box office returns?!

 

[Yoda]

I think getting a boner because a lot of minorities were cast in The Matrix sequels is just wrong.

The fact that you liked the casting on a purely racial basis is in no way a redeeming feature of these films. Seriously, if the cast was all white, or all black, or whatever 'optimal mix' a movie apparently should be, both movies would still pretty much be steaming piles of manure.

 

[Rii]

Between Neo, Haman, Smith and The Architect, it's clear that white males are still running this shit.

 

[kythe]

Between Neo, Haman, Smith and The Architect, it's clear that white males are still running this shit.

Interesting that you should mention Smith and The Architect, because they actually represent "the system", or the artificially-created authority of the machines. The Agents were all intended to look very similar to each other and their lines are interchangeable. In the original Matrix, Neo's boss looks a lot like an agent as well. I think this was intentional also because he too represents a level of control.

The Architect is the opposite of The Oracle, who incidentally is a black woman. He is not intended to be seen as superior, they balance each other out.

Will Smith was originally considered for the role of Neo, so race was not a consideration. Keanu Reeves isn't entirely white either since he does have Hawaiin decent.

This leaves Haman as the primary white male in power in Zion, but I am not bothered by that either. The Matrix trilogy does very well with racial diversity that goes beyond black and white, but it's not reasonable to think there shouldn't be white people there. They just aren't the majority.

 

[iguana_tonante]

This leaves Haman as the primary white male in power in Zion, but I am not bothered by that either. The Matrix trilogy does very well with racial diversity that goes beyond black and white, but it's not reasonable to think there shouldn't be white people there. They just aren't the majority.

Besides, Haman is obviously gay, so that makes him ok.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

You will not be able to stay home, brother.

Because the Matrix: Revolutions will not be televised.

The Matrix: Revolutions will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.

 

[Harvey]

Will Smith was originally considered for the role of Neo, so race was not a consideration. Keanu Reeves isn't entirely white either since he does have Hawaiin decent.

True, but in that casting scenario wasn't Sean Connery wanted to play Morpheus (he turned the part down)?

 

[CaptJimboJones]

From Roger Ebert's review of the second one -

It has become commonplace for science fiction epics to feature one or two African-American stars, but we've come a long way since Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi." The Wachowski brothers use so many African Americans, I suspect, not for their box-office appeal, because the Matrix is the star of the movie, and not because they are good actors (which they are), but because to the white teenagers who are the primary audience for this movie, African-Americans embody a cool, a cachet, an authenticy. Morpheus is the power center of the movie, and Neo's role is essentially to study under him and absorb his mojo.

I remember reading this review at the time, and while I am a usually a big fan of Ebert's writing, I thought he was really showing his age with this conclusion.

The notion that white teenagers see black guys as automatically "cool" and "authentic" may have been the case in the late '60s and '70s when Ebert was a young man attuned to the cultural shifts going on. But by the time Matrix: Reloaded came out, African-Americans had long been dominant figures in popular music, sports and commonplace in action movies favored by teenagers. African-Americans may still hold some sort of cultural mystique for middle-aged liberals like Ebert, but most teenagers are well beyond that type of racial outlook.

 

[miraclefan]

I agree with you on the ''multi-ethnic charactors'' I think too many a sci-fi movie use's nothing but white people ''or'' if they do have someone that's not white it's always the towkin black guy! (who is always the first one to die in these types of movies) but in regard to the matrix flicks, I'm sorry, but I just saw both of them recently and they were trash! no two ways about it!

Yeah the "the black guy always dies first" rule (I believe it was "Canadian Bacon" that actually called them on this; but some other stuff did too)

anyway, I'd say a major exception to that rule was "John Carpenter's The Thing" (1982)....there were two black guys, and both survived to the end and neither were secretly infected by the monster. I mean they end the blood-test scene, it turns out Palmer was replaced by a Thing and he kills Windows before MacCready kills him....but then they show that Garry, Nauls, and Childs are all also human. So they're down to the last FOUR guys in the movie out of an original 13, and both of the original black guys are still alive and human for the final act.

HA! I wonderd when some body would mention one of my ALL-TIME favourite films(Canadian Bacon) TRUE COMEDY GENIUS!

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I enjoy what Confused Matthew has to say about the "philosophy" in the Matrix films - basically that it is new age crap that only sounds deep in the "do you watch T.V. or does the T.V. watch you" sense. Flipping an idea around so that the meaning is nonsensical does not make a sentence deep.

Agreed about the inclusion of a variety of races in the cast. Except, of course, the bad guys - who are all white. Pretty blatant there.
http://www.confusedmatthew.com/The-Matrix-Reloaded.php

 

[Gaith]

We may see predominantly "black" actors in the sequels, but I think the idea is partly that general multi-ethnic coupling produced the mix of colors seen in Zion. There are literally many shades to the citizenry.

I also read a comment once that since whites are the "mainstream" of American society, it would make sense that "others" would be more mentally disposed to seeing the Matrix for the sham that it is. A fair point.

Also recall that during the Architect's speechifying about the worst people in history, the tv screens show Hitler, Saddam, W and Donald Rumsfeld... 3/4 of whom are white. The whole series was in large part an "f*** you" to the Republican ideal of white America in general.

That said, I don't think Ebert was wrong, though he may have overstated the matter. I think the Obama phenomenon sort of proves his point. He was probably the smartest of the '07-'08 Democratic candidates, and I like his positions better than I did Hillary's, but let's be honest: I can't be the only one who likes listening to/watching the president a bit more because his non-"mainstream white" cadence and his looks are so different from Bush's, and I'm in the generation Ebert was writing about. (I liked Edwards' issues, also. But would we really have wanted a third consecutive Southern white male?)

 

[firehawk12]

Well, one thing about race in the Matrix universe is that if it's a cycle that's happened before, I don't see how races as we know them could have been reborn from a group of 20 people or whatever the Architect wanted Neo to take with him to repopulate humanity.

I guess people would be added to the pool from the people who are recovered from the pods, but even then... I figure everyone would be the same colour in a few generations.