NFL 2014-2015 Season Discussion

[Alidar Jarok]

It was on PTI today where they directly pointed out Jerry Rice's hypocrisy. So it wasn't buried. If it sticks depends on whether there's any NBA news or if anyone cares about Hockey, though.

Where's the national outcry, the call to strip the 49ers of their rings, the call for asterisks on the championships, the movement to remove Rice from the HoF? Patriots had all that and more. Nice that Jerry Rice got 20 seconds on PTI, though...

Well, I don't think PTI ever called for the Patriots to vacate wins. I think they're of the same position I am, just because it was cheating doesn't mean it impacted games. Tom Brady is a great player, Jerry Rice was a great player. These scandals don't change that.

My position remains that an attempt to cheat is still an attempt to cheat and should be punished with some kind of sanction going forward. Obviously, Rice has been gone from the game so long that it's no longer relevant. Of course, if reports are true that they never measured the PSI of the balls beforehand and never measured the Seahawks's balls, nothing will ever be proven. To me, the strongest piece of evidence was that one side had deflated balls and not the other. If that wasn't true, I don't think they can ever discount something like weather being a factor.

 

[Scout101]

They were called to not even PLAY in their Superbowl last week, and on PTI specifically. so there's that.

Also, kinda need some evidence that cheating actually happened, which outside of leaks that weren't actually true (gee, no agenda there), there isn't anything but the one ball that was low, and outside of the Patriots' possession prior to being low.

And if they were legal at 12.5 (perfectly within the rules) at game time, and 12.3 or 12.4 at the half, pretty obviously weather conditions. Anyone going through the effort of stealing the game balls during a game to lower the PSI by 0.1? It's just that one ball that was low, and it spent time with the Colts prior to being measured, and prior to the complaint of any balls being low, so...?

If you want to skip Rice because he's old (even though clearly admitted to actual cheating, knowingly doing illegal things), where's the outcry on the Browns and Falcons? Maybe I missed those lynch mobs while I was looking for my pitchfork? Both clearly cheating, affecting gameplay and the 'integrity of the game', and actual evidence exists. But those teams suck, so no one cares. The Patriots apparently murdered everyone's parents, so they must be made to pay!

Or was that Ray Lewis, who also managed to hop on his high horse over all this? There's his banned Deer Antler spray that he used to play in the Superbowl (let's strip them of that, per his opinion), or could bring up that he literally murdered someone without consequence, I suppose. But Tom Brady's going down, the balls were 12.4psi instead of 12.5psi after being outside in the rain a couple hours! Cheater!

 

[Use of Time]

It was on PTI today where they directly pointed out Jerry Rice's hypocrisy. So it wasn't buried. If it sticks depends on whether there's any NBA news or if anyone cares about Hockey, though.

Where's the national outcry, the call to strip the 49ers of their rings, the call for asterisks on the championships, the movement to remove Rice from the HoF? Patriots had all that and more. Nice that Jerry Rice got 20 seconds on PTI, though...

Jesus Christ man. Let it go. It's not like someone is going to take the Patriots Super Bowl away or anything. Just enjoy the win and forget the noise.

 

[Scout101]

Think it's a fair discussion to have, seeing that there's a giant media scandal every time Belichick doesn't shake the opposing coach's hand for the appropriate amount of time (another 'scandal' that actually happened). And while I agree that they CAN'T do what you're saying (take away the win), I guarantee that it will be proposed in the national media when the deflategate report comes out. Whether it finds any wrongdoing or not. In fact, probably more scandal if they say they can't find any evidence, because now we get to report on the conspiracy angle too...

And I'll bet you anything you want that next time there's any hint of scandal surrounding the Pats, valid or not, deflategate shows up on the list of transgressions (like the Tuck rule did this time ) and is referenced as part of the pattern and history of cheating.

Think it's perfectly fair to discuss what's going on here, and why the Pats are held to totally different standards and rules than everyone else (seemingly).

Enjoying the win perfectly well, like that it sticks it in the face of the people calling the Pats out, and nothing can refute it. But when accused of something, and then it totally falls apart, think it's fair to want that to get the same coverage as the accusation. Especially when most of the people doing the accusing are guilty of equal or greater transgressions that don't get a tenth of the same coverage. This was the lead story on the NBC nightly news, ahead of the death of a king. To be fair, his credibility isn't doing so hot at the moment...

 

[Jedi_Master]

It was on PTI today where they directly pointed out Jerry Rice's hypocrisy. So it wasn't buried. If it sticks depends on whether there's any NBA news or if anyone cares about Hockey, though.

Where's the national outcry, the call to strip the 49ers of their rings, the call for asterisks on the championships, the movement to remove Rice from the HoF? Patriots had all that and more. Nice that Jerry Rice got 20 seconds on PTI, though...

Jesus Christ man. Let it go. It's not like someone is going to take the Patriots Super Bowl away or anything. Just enjoy the win and forget the noise.

This. I am over listening to Patriot fans whine about how persecuted they are and how terrible it is for every one to hate them, etc.

Stop being a sore winner.

 

[Use of Time]

Think it's a fair discussion to have, seeing that there's a giant media scandal every time Belichick doesn't shake the opposing coach's hand for the appropriate amount of time (another 'scandal' that actually happened). And while I agree that they CAN'T do what you're saying (take away the win), I guarantee that it will be proposed in the national media when the deflategate report comes out. Whether it finds any wrongdoing or not. In fact, probably more scandal if they say they can't find any evidence, because now we get to report on the conspiracy angle too...

And I'll bet you anything you want that next time there's any hint of scandal surrounding the Pats, valid or not, deflategate shows up on the list of transgressions (like the Tuck rule did this time ) and is referenced as part of the pattern and history of cheating.

Think it's perfectly fair to discuss what's going on here, and why the Pats are held to totally different standards and rules than everyone else (seemingly).

Enjoying the win perfectly well, like that it sticks it in the face of the people calling the Pats out, and nothing can refute it. But when accused of something, and then it totally falls apart, think it's fair to want that to get the same coverage as the accusation. Especially when most of the people doing the accusing are guilty of equal or greater transgressions that don't get a tenth of the same coverage. This was the lead story on the NBC nightly news, ahead of the death of a king. To be fair, his credibility isn't doing so hot at the moment...

What can I say man. Football fans are assholes. It isn't ever going to stop regardless of what the deflategate report brings to light. People like to troll and the media will be desperate for any story in the sports blackhole month that is February. I'm a Cowboys fan and I would go stark raving mad if I didn't drown out the shit that gets hurled at my team even when they aren't doing something stupid.

You and I both know that neither spygate or deflategate made a difference at all on the field. Don't go nuts trying to stave off every comment that tries to paint them as anything other than the premier franchise of the 2000's. They'll be fine and the noise will eventually fade away.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

This. I am over listening to Patriot fans whine about how persecuted they are and how terrible it is for every one to hate them, etc.

Stop being a sore winner.

I agree. As a Colts fan, I can recall numerous examples of the Patriots and their fans celebrating at the expense of the Colts, whose fortunes have been affected more significantly by the Patriots' run of success than perhaps any other NFL team (though fans of Baltimore and Pittsburgh could certainly argue this point).

Be that as it may, I've no problem admitting that the Patriots have, by and large, been the better team in the majority of their meetings with with the Colts (regardless of whether Manning or Luck was at QB). That's why they've four Super Bowl wins to the Colts' one. The Patriots won the AFC Championship; nothing to do with deflated footballs impacted the game's outcome, regardless of what the media insist.

What gets on my nerves--and, I suspect, the nerves of other football fans, as well--is that neither the Patriots or their fans appear to be satisfied with winning. It's not enough that they've won; they've got to throw it in everyone's faces, too--and then behave as though they're somehow the victim of a monstrous injustice. It's disgusting, and it's way past old.

--Sran

 

[Tom Servo]

Where's the national outcry, the call to strip the 49ers of their rings, the call for asterisks on the championships, the movement to remove Rice from the HoF? Patriots had all that and more. Nice that Jerry Rice got 20 seconds on PTI, though...

Jesus Christ man. Let it go. It's not like someone is going to take the Patriots Super Bowl away or anything. Just enjoy the win and forget the noise.

This. I am over listening to Patriot fans whine about how persecuted they are and how terrible it is for every one to hate them, etc.

Stop being a sore winner.

Excuse me? How is that being a sore winner?

For two weeks all we we had to listen to was how the Patriots are cheaters and should be removed from the Superbowl. It was on ESPN, CNN, MSNBC, The Today Show and DR FUCKING PHIL. It was considered breaking news on ever major media site. We had former players (like Ray fucking Lewis of all people) on all the sports networks telling us that the Pats disrespected the integrity of the game. All of this with NO evidence that they did a damn thing wrong. And when they try to defend themselves, we have stiffs like Mark Brunell saying "I don't believe what Tom Brady had to say."

Where is the outrage for the Browns and the Falcons? There isn't any, because all those franchises do is lose.

None of the great sports dynasties of recent years, like the Bulls of the 90's, or the Yankee's of the 90's or the Spurs more recently have had their accomplishments marginalized and disrespected like the Patriots have, by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to any actual infractions committed.

So I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing Patriots fans complain, but they have a right to. There was a media witch hunt for two weeks regarding their team, by reporters and by former players who are jealous of their success.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

None of the great sports dynasties of recent years, like the Bulls of the 90's, or the Yankee's of the 90's or the Spurs more recently have had their accomplishments marginalized and disrespected like the Patriots have, by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to any actual infractions committed.

If the people marginalizing the Patriots' success don't know what they're talking about, why do you feel compelled to offer to response?

So I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing Patriots fans complain, but they have a right to. There was a media witch hunt for two weeks regarding their team, by reporters and by former players who are jealous of their success.

Hardly, as a witch hunt is a search for that which cannot be found. The only thing the Patriots have a right to is the Lombardi trophy they've won. They've no business whining and complaining about anything, nor do their fans.

--Sran

 

[Tom Servo]

None of the great sports dynasties of recent years, like the Bulls of the 90's, or the Yankee's of the 90's or the Spurs more recently have had their accomplishments marginalized and disrespected like the Patriots have, by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to any actual infractions committed.

If the people marginalizing the Patriots' success don't know what they're talking about, why do you feel compelled to offer to response?

So I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing Patriots fans complain, but they have a right to. There was a media witch hunt for two weeks regarding their team, by reporters and by former players who are jealous of their success.

Hardly, as a witch hunt is a search for that which cannot be found. The only thing the Patriots have a right to is the Lombardi trophy they've won. They've no business whining and complaining about anything, nor do their fans.



--Sran

Well what have they found? They haven't found a damn bit of evidence they did anything wrong. They we're declared cheaters by the national media when not one piece has been found.

I can say that the Colts intentionally tampered with the footballs after the interception to make the Pats look bad, and have as much evidence of that as there is of the Patriots doing it intentionally. Yet one of those was a two week long national story.

And there is a right to complain until they get an apology from every reporter who called for their heads without a scrap of evidence, and the NFL, who left them to twist in the wind for two weeks. Is there no call to for these sports reporters to have any sort of accountability at all? It's easy to ignore when it's not your team or a team you don't like.

I mean, I can call the Colts cheaters too for intentionally pumping crowd noise into their stadium. But there was no congressional hearings on that.

 

[Use of Time]

Jesus Christ man. Let it go. It's not like someone is going to take the Patriots Super Bowl away or anything. Just enjoy the win and forget the noise.

This. I am over listening to Patriot fans whine about how persecuted they are and how terrible it is for every one to hate them, etc.

Stop being a sore winner.

Excuse me? How is that being a sore winner?

For two weeks all we we had to listen to was how the Patriots are cheaters and should be removed from the Superbowl. It was on ESPN, CNN, MSNBC, The Today Show and DR FUCKING PHIL. It was considered breaking news on ever major media site. We had former players (like Ray fucking Lewis of all people) on all the sports networks telling us that the Pats disrespected the integrity of the game. All of this with NO evidence that they did a damn thing wrong. And when they try to defend themselves, we have stiffs like Mark Brunell saying "I don't believe what Tom Brady had to say."

Where is the outrage for the Browns and the Falcons? There isn't any, because all those franchises do is lose.

None of the great sports dynasties of recent years, like the Bulls of the 90's, or the Yankee's of the 90's or the Spurs more recently have had their accomplishments marginalized and disrespected like the Patriots have, by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to any actual infractions committed.

So I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing Patriots fans complain, but they have a right to. There was a media witch hunt for two weeks regarding their team, by reporters and by former players who are jealous of their success.

If it's gotten to the point where you are taking statements personally from journeyman backup QB's (Brunnell) or old rivals (Lewis) or even Dr. Fucking Phil then you are only going to find misery.

Honestly, for all the people going to extremes with their calling the Patriots "cheaters" I've seen just as much commentary shouting it down. Teams that enjoy great success need to be prepared for all the nitpicking nonsense that goes with it. Welcome to the spotlight.

If the burden is too much to bear, I'd gladly take the Superbowl win for my team with all the contraversy that comes with it. For a city that has won three World Series, four Super Bowls, an NBA finals and a Stanley Cup within the last 13 years, the whole tortured Boston sports fan schtick has grown tiresome to everyone else.

Worst case scenario, the league finds the Patriots at fault and there are fines levied and maybe a draft pick gets taken. Big deal. The Patriots dynasty has already been solidified and nobody can take that away.

The worst that is going to happen to you is that you may have to listen to some shit talking from some wing eating moron at a Buffalo Wild Wings who would trade places with you in a second if he could. You guys will be fine.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I mean, I can call the Colts cheaters too for intentionally pumping crowd noise into their stadium. But there was no congressional hearings on that.

Because the Colts don't have a history of cheating; the Patriots do. Moreover, Colts fan don't pitch a fit every time someone maligns the Colts organization--primarily because most Colts fans have both the humility and the self-awareness to recognize that the Colts organization is far from perfect--a problem that begins and ends with the franchise's owner.

More than a few people in Indianapolis (myself included) would be happy to see Jim Irsay sell--or at least take a background role and allow his daughters to handle more of the organization's day-to-day business. I'm tired of seeing Colts' players in the news for off-field incidents--and I won't use the media as an excuse to bitch about it as Patriots fans do, as there would be no story without the bad behavior that sparked it.

In any case, I don't see why anyone who roots for the Patriots is upset about this. The Patriots won the Super Bowl--one of the most exciting finishes to a game I've seen in quite some time--yet we're being led to believe that the accusations being leveled at the Patriots have somehow wiped away the Patriots' victory--by none other than Patriots fans, who won't stop whining!

--Sran

 

[Use of Time]

I mean, I can call the Colts cheaters too for intentionally pumping crowd noise into their stadium. But there was no congressional hearings on that.

Because the Colts don't have a history of cheating; the Patriots do. Moreover, Colts fan don't pitch a fit every time someone maligns the Colts organization--primarily because most Colts fans have both the humility and the self-awareness to recognize that the Colts organization is far from perfect--a problem that begins and ends with the franchise's owner.

More than a few people in Indianapolis (myself included) would be happy to see Jim Irsay sell--or at least take a background role and allow his daughters to handle more of the organization's day-to-day business. I'm tired of seeing Colts' players in the news for off-field incidents--and I won't use the media as an excuse to bitch about it as Patriots fans do, as there would be no story without the bad behavior that sparked it.

In any case, I don't see why anyone who roots for the Patriots is upset about this. The Patriots won the Super Bowl--one of the most exciting finishes to a game I've seen in quite some time--yet we're being led to believe that the accusations being leveled at the Patriots have somehow wiped away the Patriots' victory--by none other than Patriots fans, who won't stop whining!

--Sran

Saying the Patriots have a history of cheating is a bit much. Spygate and deflategate are a bit overblown and the Ravens stuff was just creativity. The strongest word I would use is maybe gamesmenship.

 

[Timby]

Jesus Christ, all this hemming and hawing. Let's just accept two things:

1. The Patriots are really, really, really good and have been really, really, really good for like fifteen years. Bill Belichick is easily the greatest coach and strategist of the modern era (it was such a different game 30 years ago that you can't legitimately make an "all-time" argument) and Tom Brady is a really, really good quarterback who has done a phenomenal job of adapting his game to fit his declining physical skills.

2. The Patriots do not make it easy to like them.

Groovy? Groovy.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They were called to not even PLAY in their Superbowl last week, and on PTI specifically. so there's that.

I don't think that's the case. I recall them saying the same thing as me. They may have tried to cheat but it didn't impact the results of that game and they shouldn't forfeit their right to be in the Super Bowl.

Unless I'm badly misremembering.

 

[Use of Time]

They were called to not even PLAY in their Superbowl last week, and on PTI specifically. so there's that.

I don't think that's the case. I recall them saying the same thing as me. They may have tried to cheat but it didn't impact the results of that game and they shouldn't forfeit their right to be in the Super Bowl.

Unless I'm badly misremembering.

You aren't. That is the narrative I have heard the most. Granted I am not reading everything ever said or written on the subject but most respected media commentary has downplayed the significance of deflated footballs.

 

[Tom Servo]

I mean, I can call the Colts cheaters too for intentionally pumping crowd noise into their stadium. But there was no congressional hearings on that.

Because the Colts don't have a history of cheating; the Patriots do. Moreover, Colts fan don't pitch a fit every time someone maligns the Colts organization--primarily because most Colts fans have both the humility and the self-awareness to recognize that the Colts organization is far from perfect--a problem that begins and ends with the franchise's owner.

More than a few people in Indianapolis (myself included) would be happy to see Jim Irsay sell--or at least take a background role and allow his daughters to handle more of the organization's day-to-day business. I'm tired of seeing Colts' players in the news for off-field incidents--and I won't use the media as an excuse to bitch about it as Patriots fans do, as there would be no story without the bad behavior that sparked it.

In any case, I don't see why anyone who roots for the Patriots is upset about this. The Patriots won the Super Bowl--one of the most exciting finishes to a game I've seen in quite some time--yet we're being led to believe that the accusations being leveled at the Patriots have somehow wiped away the Patriots' victory--by none other than Patriots fans, who won't stop whining!

--Sran

Saying the Patriots have a history of cheating is a bit much. Spygate and deflategate are a bit overblown and the Ravens stuff was just creativity. The strongest word I would use is maybe gamesmenship.

See, Sran's post is precisely why Pat's fans get all up in arms over this, and why we are annoyed by it. Spygate was the only time that they have been caught doing something outside the rules and convicted for it by the NFL. It was ONE time. If that is a history of cheating, then the Steelers, 49ers, Falcons, Browns, Colts and many others all have a history of cheating. The problem is that we are arguing with perception, not the reality of the thing.

Even today John Clayton of ESPN had a mailbag article where he discussed how Sean Payton was suspended for a season for Bountygate, yet BB wasn't for taping other teams practices during Spygate. EXCEPT THAT ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED. They never taped other teams practices. Yet here we have a national football writer throwing it out there like its fact. Now yes, later in the day the ESPN editor retracted the statement, but why is it someone like Clayton, who is paid to write about the NFL is allowed to get away with a completely fictitious statement.

Then things like the substitutions in the Ravens game happens and all you hear from NFL fans is cheaters, cheaters when it is simply the case of Bill Belichick being a really smart head coach and out foxing the competition.

This and why you see fans like myself and Scout get so pissed about this sort of thing. It's because not just fans get it wrong, national sportswriters do. And since the fans read them, it just reenforces the position that all the Pats do is cheat to win, when that is simply not the case. They are just really really really good at what they do.

 

[Scout101]

They were called to not even PLAY in their Superbowl last week, and on PTI specifically. so there's that.

I don't think that's the case. I recall them saying the same thing as me. They may have tried to cheat but it didn't impact the results of that game and they shouldn't forfeit their right to be in the Super Bowl.

Unless I'm badly misremembering.

You aren't. That is the narrative I have heard the most. Granted I am not reading everything ever said or written on the subject but most respected media commentary has downplayed the significance of deflated footballs.

He is, you both are.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...tegate-true/u3dZAGTPoCq7dR3xILqNTM/story.html

 

[Use of Time]

I don't think that's the case. I recall them saying the same thing as me. They may have tried to cheat but it didn't impact the results of that game and they shouldn't forfeit their right to be in the Super Bowl.

Unless I'm badly misremembering.

You aren't. That is the narrative I have heard the most. Granted I am not reading everything ever said or written on the subject but most respected media commentary has downplayed the significance of deflated footballs.

He is, you both are.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...tegate-true/u3dZAGTPoCq7dR3xILqNTM/story.html

My comment was with regards to the collective media that I have heard address this. Look, I don't know what to tell you guys. Football fans enjoy poking each other over the littlest things and talking heads are usually going to latch onto whatever the outrage of the day is. If you are a fan of a team that is successful to the point of being considered a dynasty, it is going to require a thicker skin. I know it is irritating but the self loathing Boston sports fan thing isn't particularly endearing to the other 31 teams that didn't win a Super Bowl.

Super Bowl champs. Enjoy it.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

And since the fans read them, it just reenforces the position that all the Pats do is cheat to win, when that is simply not the case. They are just really really really good at what they do.

I said the Patriots have a history of cheating, not that the entirety of their success is the result of cheating; in spite of what the Patriots and their fans believe, most NFL fans do not attribute their success to cheating; they merely believe that the Patriots' cheating cheapens said success because they're already a great team.

I will never understand the inferiority complex that appears to affect the psyches of any New England sports fans--who have repeatedly endulged in self-pity despite having absolutely no reason to do so. I think it's extremely telling that a city that's experienced an NBA Championship, Super Bowl victories, World Series wins, and a Stanley Cup within the last decade would feel sorry for itself rather than celebrate its success. It's as if the people of New England believe that everyone else must enjoy their success along with them--or it's all been for nothing.

--Sran