Memories of the Original Krenim Timeline from Before and After

[stardream]

This is a spin off of my re-watch thread. We saw a 'reset' during the two part episode 'Year of Hell'. No memories of the events. The ship went on its way around Krenim space. No busted up ship...no year of hell.

However during the Episode Before and After nothing is reset. Janeway and B'Elanna are still dead, Chakotay is the Captain and Tom (and I assume everyone else) has memories of the events. (Janeway Rulz pointed out how things ran parallel in the two episodes. I knew that Seven found the torpedo rather than Kes but didn't stop to think that the kidnapping of Chakotay and Paris was parallel to the deaths of Janeway and Torres. Interesting)

As per "Before and After' there was no reset. No time travel. No Anorak messing with time? Just a straight year of fighting with Chakotay somehow managing to come through on the other side with the ship? And their memories.

What could have been different about the original Year of Hell that Tom remembered? I'm thinking there was no Annorak or an Annorak who wasn't obsessed with messing with time.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's possible that Annorak was still around. The reason the "year of hell" began in the first place is because his actions altered the Krenim's history.

Anything could have happened, really. Maybe Annorak gave up chasing Voyager after Janeway was killed, or maybe he himself died along the way and his crew abandoned the hunt.

 

[Terok Nor]

an Annorak who wasn't obsessed with messing with time.

Guess we can rule out blaming JJ Abrams for the Year of Hell then

 

[stardream]

an Annorak who wasn't obsessed with messing with time.

Guess we can rule out blaming JJ Abrams for the Year of Hell then

 

[Ethros]

It'll always be a lost dream for me that the Year of Hell season never happened for real. I'd imagine for the most part it would have kinda played out like Enterprise Season 3- always in the background for the first half of the season but still plenty of standalones, then a big arc in the final run. With Voyager becoming absolutely battered by the end as the NX-01 was.
Thing is on ENT they could "reset" all that damage for Season 4 by just having the ship be repaired over Earth for a few months, I guess VOY couldn't really do that. (Then again if they could build all those new shuttles, both Delta Flyers and new torpedoes from scratch I don't see why not.) Maybe they could have done an episode like ENT 2.04 Dead Stop where the ship could have been repaired.

I suppose the other factor would be crew deaths. Over ENT s3 27 crew members were lost, but again they were just replaced by new recruits from Earth. If in a "real" Year of Hell Voyager suffered similar casualties they would have had to recruit new species and passengers and so on maybe for crew members in later seasons.



I know some people like VOY the way it is, and maybe don't like ENT s3, fair enough, I'm just saying what I'd like to have seen. Year of Hell is easily in my All Time Top 10 Trek episodes

 

[RoJoHen]

Thing is on ENT they could "reset" all that damage for Season 4 by just having the ship be repaired over Earth for a few months, I guess VOY couldn't really do that. (Then again if they could build all those new shuttles, both Delta Flyers and new torpedoes from scratch I don't see why not.) Maybe they could have done an episode like ENT 2.04 Dead Stop where the ship could have been repaired.

By the end of the episode, Janeway had managed to forge alliances with several alien ships. Maybe the "Year of Hell" could have ended with some shore leave while their new allies repaired the ship in appreciation for helping stop the Krenim.

I could have been done.

 

[stardream]

The thing I'm interested in is the Year of Hell that Kes saw in Before and After. It obviously wasn't the same as the one we saw. There was no reset. Life went on and the crew had actual memories of the events. It could be there was no Anorak or he died....whatever. I wonder if that was what the writers originally intended before it was decided that Kes was to leave the show.

 

[Ethros]

Well if say the episodes Scorpion just never happened, and Kes had simply stayed on for Season 4 with no Seven of Nine, and so Season 4 could have been the Year of Hell without having to do any Borg plots...
I mean I still think it would have been different to what we saw in Before & After. I somehow doubt they would have simply killed off Janeway & Torres for one thing. But had it been a year long plot like I don't think you would have needed Annorax and his time ship at all, that was really for the 2-parter so it could all be reset at the end. I mean they could have used it but I'm just saying.

But in B&A there wasn't really a "plot" for the Year of Hell, it was just "Voyager is constantly attacked by the Krenim for a year while going through their space." If it were to be a full season-long-arc then some kind of plot element would have to be introduced to make in interesting, ala ENT s3 with all the Xindi shenanigans. Introducing us to Krenim characters, good and bad, Voyager finding allies, etc

 

[RoJoHen]

The universe diverges when Kes leaves the ship. In one timeline, she stays on board. In the other timeline, her powers overwhelm her and she leaves.

That is the difference. Not the timeship or Annorax...but the fact that Kes is still around. Whatever role she played obviously had a direct impact on how the Year of Hell turned out.

 

[stardream]

The universe diverges when Kes leaves the ship. In one timeline, she stays on board. In the other timeline, her powers overwhelm her and she leaves.

That is the difference. Not the timeship or Annorax...but the fact that Kes is still around. Whatever role she played obviously had a direct impact on how the Year of Hell turned out.

I understand that. What I am curious about is what that alternative future would have looked like had we seen it in its entirety with no time jumps. Would there have even been a time ship? Obviously Chakotay didn't reset things because Tom remembered the events.

 

[Terok Nor]

Scorpion and The Gift must have happened in the original timeline. How else could Voyager have gotten from Borg space to Krenim space? Maybe Janeway allied herself with Species 8472 instead of the Borg and that's why Seven didn't join the crew. Kes had to have propelled Voyager out of Borg space in order for it to be in Krenim space but maybe she regained control of her powers and returned to Voyager.

 

[stardream]

Scorpion and The Gift must have happened in the original timeline. How else could Voyager have gotten from Borg space to Krenim space? Maybe Janeway allied herself with Species 8472 instead of the Borg and that's why Seven didn't join the crew. Kes had to have propelled Voyager out of Borg space in order for it to be in Krenim space but maybe she regained control of her powers and returned to Voyager.

If Janeway made an alliance with Species 8472 they could have taken them there as part of whatever 'bargain' they made. They didn't have to get out of Borg space by way of Kes.

I don't know why this interests me. It just does...the same way I wish we knew more about the original 23 year journey it took Voyager to get home.

 

[Terok Nor]

Scorpion and The Gift must have happened in the original timeline. How else could Voyager have gotten from Borg space to Krenim space? Maybe Janeway allied herself with Species 8472 instead of the Borg and that's why Seven didn't join the crew. Kes had to have propelled Voyager out of Borg space in order for it to be in Krenim space but maybe she regained control of her powers and returned to Voyager.

If Janeway made an alliance with Species 8472 they could have taken them there as part of whatever 'bargain' they made. They didn't have to get out of Borg space by way of Kes.

I don't know why this interests me. It just does...the same way I wish we knew more about the original 23 year journey it took Voyager to get home.

Well it's interesting. That's why

Good point about Species 8472.

 

[Ethros]

The universe diverges when Kes leaves the ship. In one timeline, she stays on board. In the other timeline, her powers overwhelm her and she leaves.

That is the difference. Not the timeship or Annorax...but the fact that Kes is still around. Whatever role she played obviously had a direct impact on how the Year of Hell turned out.

It's been a long time since I watched Before & After, but obviously Seven of Nine wasn't in it. Are you saying that she could have been there on the ship during those scenes but we simply just don't see her?


But anyway, I wasn't talking in-universe in my post about Scorpion not happening, I just meant had the writers gone a different way and not included the Borg/Scorpion plot line at all for the end of s3

 

[DonIago]

I kind of like the idea of retconning Seven into B&A the same way we retcon Chekov into TWOK. We don't see her because Kes has no reason to interact with her. Or maybe in that timeline the events of Scorpion played out identically but Seven was later killed (perhaps during the same events that destroyed Sickbay?).

 

[RoJoHen]

There's no really no reason to think that the events of Scorpion would play out differently, and therefore no reason to think that Seven isn't around. Unless she died or was otherwise removed from the ship between "The Gift" and "Year of Hell" in the alternate timeline.

Maybe Kes blew her up with her brain powers.

 

[Tomalak]

It's meeting 8472 that kicks Kes's latest powers into high gear, therefore I assume the events of Scorpion didn't occur in the original BAA timeline, at least not in the same way. Perhaps here Voyager found a wrecked Cube, stole the transwarp coil, and powered on to Krenim space before it gave out?

 

[Finn]

I had always assumed that Voyager found a shortcut like a wormhole in the "original timeline" as seen in Before and After, that Voyager somehow missed after the episdoe. Perhaps Annorax had something to do with it.

 

[Drone]

The universe diverges when Kes leaves the ship. In one timeline, she stays on board. In the other timeline, her powers overwhelm her and she leaves.

That is the difference. Not the timeship or Annorax...but the fact that Kes is still around. Whatever role she played obviously had a direct impact on how the Year of Hell turned out.

I find it very interesting and gratifying that Kes, a character so deprecated by a lot of fans (though I think that has been changing), plays such a critical role in Voyager's future, even in the character of space through which it travels.

 

[Finn]

I just remembered implications I had thought about- I had thought about this when Year of Hell first aired. What if what Annorax had been doing did not only change the "Before and After timeline", but altered the events of other episodes. In other words, is it possible that there were other episodes prior to Year of Hell never happened or happened differently from Janeway and Co. (at the end of Endgame) point of view than what we viewers saw?

Yes, it has occurred to me that everything we saw is the result of Janeway ramming Annorax's ship. But then we wouldn't have seen Before and After...