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Lost Season 6 Premiere: "LA X"

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I'm glad someone else noticed this about Season 5 (for me, I think the move away from characters began in Season 4 with the flash-forwards). The truth is, Lost has increasingly become a plot-driven series as opposed to the more character-driven series it was in the first couple of seasons. Fortunately it can weave a pretty darn exciting tale. But I do miss the heavy investment in, and exploration of, character.
The plot definitely became more driven during season 4 (because they finally had an end-date), but the season still had incredible character episodes. While I don't think The Constant was as outstanding as most do, it had a very powerful ending for Desmond and Penny. Meet Kevin Johnson explained what happened with Michael while giving him what was probably his best episode on the show, and Cabin Fever steamed ahead with the plot while being an excellent Locke episode. Last, but not least, The Shape of Things to Come completely shook up the dynamic of season 4, but it was also an amazing Ben episode. I can't remember a single season 5 episode that can match any of those for character work, even seasons 1-3 have a hard time comparing with them.

LA X gave me hope that the final season will return to that season 4 standard, and I'm very interested in seeing what happens between Jack and Locke in the JJverse. Then again, next week's episode is titled What Kate Does, so it seems like the promise is about to be wasted. :( Unless what Kate does is shoot herself in the head because she realises what a horrible, selfish and boring human being she is, and even then it would have to happen in the JJverse and the Prime universe for me to be interested in it.
 
There are other more significant differences - Sun and Jin appear not to be married. They are not wearing wedding rings and the airport staff refer to Sun as "Miss Paik".
They shouldn't call her "Mrs Kwon" if they were (are?) married, either, since women in Korea don't take their husband's name.

She's lucky they didn't call her "Miss Sun" given how often us Westerners mangle Korean names.

Still, the lack of wedding rings is further evidence.
That doesn't really make sense. They have exactly the same relationship as they did at the start of season 1 (he tells her to button her shirt, she looks scared and submissive) and Jin seems to be working for Mr Park. I don't see for what possible reason they wouldn't be officially married in this timeline, and what difference that would make anyway, since everything else about them is the same.
 
Ha! JJverse!

Well I hope that What Kate Does won't be as stupid and selfish as What Kate Did. But then Kate has been stupid and selfish throughout the normal timeline so there's nothing to suggest that anything will change.

I loved season 5 but it's a bit uneven. For the first six or seven episodes there was a good deal of tension whilst everything was playing out, with the Oceanic 6, and then the other Losties flashing through time. When time stops and we get to Dharmaville, things start getting a bit more serene, until events build towards the finale. So I guess I agree with you - the character stories weren't up to the same quality as the more plot-driven ones.
 
That doesn't really make sense. They have exactly the same relationship as they did at the start of season 1 (he tells her to button her shirt, she looks scared and submissive) and Jin seems to be working for Mr Park. I don't see for what possible reason they wouldn't be officially married in this timeline, and what difference that would make anyway, since everything else about them is the same.

That's the point, I think. Things have clearly changed that don't make a lot of sense.

The one that's most curious to me is Kate and the toy airplane.
 
But that's not how we were told it worked in Lost. In Lost, the rule had been "whatever happened, happened". There's only one timeline. When someone tries to change history, they just end up fulfilling it. Simple, straightforward rule, that avoids the writers using time travel as a crutch.

Now they seem to be throwing out that rule, and the new rule is "Time travel works however we say it works at the moment, depending on what's most convenient for the story." I definitely feel like it's a cheat.

That's not really true. That is only what Daniel Faraday kept saying and telling them. But that doesn't mean it's true. In fact he was wrong. After all, he is the one who actually later came back to the island and said that they could change the future. So his initial theory must have been incorrect.

Also, his mother, Eloise, also an apparent expert in time travel, never said the same thing. In fact she was annoyed when people messed with the timeline and changed things (Desmond). She kept saying he "should do this" and he "originally did this" and if he didn't do something else then things would turn out wrong, etc... Basically proving that the timeline/future can be altered but she didn't want it to change.

Heck, Dharma was teleporting rabbits back and forward in time and that was changing things. Remember the vidoe clip with the rabbits and the one rabbit appeared out of nowhere because someone messed up.

So Lost never said there was one firm set of rules. It only ever gave us some characters theories on time travel. It's just that Faraday was the most vocal and consistent character how kept expressing his views over and over again and got the other main cast to believe it. But that didn't make it true.
 
That doesn't really make sense. They have exactly the same relationship as they did at the start of season 1 (he tells her to button her shirt, she looks scared and submissive) and Jin seems to be working for Mr Park. I don't see for what possible reason they wouldn't be officially married in this timeline, and what difference that would make anyway, since everything else about them is the same.

Except that their rings have been important story element in several episodes. Sun loses hers, Jin gives his to Locke to give to Sun, etc. For them to be missing means something.
 
Forgot about the Ajira plane

I had this . . . discussion . . . in another thread and like you, the way she said the "first plane" really caught my attention when she said it. I've since decided it means nothing, and just another example of odd dialogue choices the writers make for these characters. Cindy was on on the same plane as them, it seems it would ahve been more reasonable to expect her to say something like "They were on the plane with me when we crashed" or something like that. It seems odd to me for her to describe the way she did, but I've decided it's just the way they do things on this show. For some reason the writer must have felt compelled to have her make that distinction.

It could be because, for whatever reason, Cindy considers herself an Other now. She's definitely distanced herself from that plane crash.
 
Well that's a good point, and if that's the case, then it DID mean something, just not something really all that mysterious. Good call.
 
Where do you guys suppose Man in Locke's home is? The temple? Egypt? Tunisia? Could the Frozen donkey wheel send him to Tunisia too?
 
There are other more significant differences - Sun and Jin appear not to be married. They are not wearing wedding rings and the airport staff refer to Sun as "Miss Paik".
They shouldn't call her "Mrs Kwon" if they were (are?) married, either, since women in Korea don't take their husband's name.

She's lucky they didn't call her "Miss Sun" given how often us Westerners mangle Korean names.

Still, the lack of wedding rings is further evidence.

Do we know what passport he had in the original timeline? He might have been using any number of passports at the time, considering his history and lifestyle.

Yeah, but an Iranian one ? Not the wisest choice of country.

There are more obvious things. Jack wasn't nervous about flying in the original version, but Rose was. He calmed her down. Here it's the other way around.

Boone got Shannon to come with him, here she stays in Australia.

Kate doesn't try to retrieve the toy airplane from Mars' case.

Rose is reading "Weekly Woodsman" magazine. Doubt it was just something she found already on the plane. Maybe she and Bernard are already isolating themselves from civilization.
 
Hah, J.J. Abrams and his folks really like alternate timelines/universes now, do they? ST09, Fringe, and now Lost...

But it will interesting to see how they'll go with this and when and how the people in the alternate reality will realize that they're in an alternate reality.

So, we had...
Seasons 1-3: Flashbacks
Season 4: Flashforwards
Season 5: Time travel (different characters stuck in different time periods)
Season 6: Alternate realities (different versions of the same characters in different timelines)
 
I just re-watched last night, and caught Boone's pun to John

Boone: You're pulling my leg, right?
John: Now why would I do that?

:lol:
 
Well, that was all unexpected. And by that, I mean I expected the episode to show me the unexpected. So, really, not all that bad really. :bolian:

And.... Other Other Others! :D



LA X could mean crossed timelines? Who knows...

Could be the name of the airport in the alternate timeline. ;)


Although interestingly, as Lostpedia seem to be putting it, "X" could also refer to the alternate timeline itself - call it the X Timeline if you like. I too noticed that the differences in the X Timeline were more complex than merely "the plane doesn't crash" and as mentioned in that excellent quote from Lindelof above, it'll be interesting to see where and how else the timeline differs as a result of the Island being for all intents and purposes rendered null and void in the original timeline.
 
The name of the episode might imply a crossing in LA. Perhaps that's where the two different stories will collide.
 
It's an old comic book reference. For example Earth X was in a parrallel reality. Dimension X etc. I must admit, they had me guessing for months over that. I thought it was going to stand for ten, as in the Roman numeral, because we see The Others talking Latin alot.
 
Excellent. This show has not lost one iota of inventiveness and emotional punch. Very clever how they managed to color within the lines and stick to their time-travel logic - if you can't change your own timeline, frakking around with it must create another reality - you're changing someone else's past/future, but they won't know you did it, you won't know you did it, and you won't get any benefit from it.

Finally
, a show that does time travel right! :bolian: I don't mind writers using other sorts of logic, but I do mind when the rules aren't clear or the logic is flawed. The Lost time-travel logic is going to be tough to pull off well, because you end up with the "real" characters the audience cares about, but what about the other guys? Are they "real"? Are we supposed to care about them like the originals? Will the stories ever intersect in a literal way? I can't see how they could. But they could intersect thematically, for instance by having Jack 2 operate on Locke 2 and repair his spine (and I'm incredulous at myself that I never saw the parallelism between Jack's profession and Locke's injury!)

It's also clever that they've hit on an all-new way of doing the island/mainland story split. They've pretty much tried them all by now, haven't they? Flashback, flash-forward, split the gang between island and mainland and now, parallel realities. Is there anything else they could try if there was an S7?
So - how can the island be underwater in the same universe as non-crashing LOSTIES?
Simple: these are parallel realities, not different timelines of the same reality. It's the same logic as Star Trek XI. You can have two Spocks in the same place because they're not the same guy.

Somehow, setting off the bomb created or altered a different reality to follow the path we're seeing. There's one reality in which 815 crashed and another reality where the island is underwater but they have no connection to each other besides the fact that they contain many of the same people, places and things.

The blast jumped realities, which might be possible if the island were a "nexus of realities" of some sort. Remember all that stuff about the importance of approaching and leaving the island on just the right heading? That could have been to keep you from blundering into the wrong reality.

Exactly how would Juliet know that it worked?
Er, um...she has a psychic connection with her doppleganger in the parallel reality who is somehow aware that her reality just changed? Or maybe we just chalk it up to artistic license. Everything in this maniac mess doesn't have to make 100% sense!

But that's not how we were told it worked in Lost. In Lost, the rule had been "whatever happened, happened". There's only one timeline. When someone tries to change history, they just end up fulfilling it. Simple, straightforward rule, that avoids the writers using time travel as a crutch.
One timeline per reality. They're still coloring within the lines - so far.
For all we know these two timelines will somehow end up fulfilling each other...or something.
There's gotta be some connection or else the very idea is silly for a story - there's no coherence. But if the timelines intersect literally, I dunno, I think that does mean they've violated their own rules. That's why I think they might go for a thematic connection, but to do that for all the characters -yowch! That will be some amazingly tricky writing.
 
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^^ I'm just impressed that (so far) they've been fairly consistent with the subtle and not so subtle changes that the lack of an Island would have had on the various peoples' lives. When I first saw the episode, I wondered how the lack of an island might have affected Desmond - no Island, no shipwreck. But then again, no Charles (and possibly no Penny - or at the very least a very different, orphaned Penny who grew up differently) and no Eloise to nudge Desmond through life directly or otherwise, so no motivation to actually go on the round-the-world race in the first place, so probably tons of other adventures resulting in a coincidental meeting on that flight with Jack.

But then if Desmond lacked that particular motivation for that race, how could he then have met Jack at the stadium? Maybe they met somewhere else. Who knows, maybe in this reality Christian remained a successful surgeon at St. Sebastian, and was in Sydney on a business trip - hence no Ana-Lucia seen here - then was murdered by Desmond?

On that point, I felt they could have had Ana-Lucia at LAX to interrogate Jin and Sun as a nice touch - maybe a missed opportunity perhaps, or maybe she never quit her job in the LAPD and had a lovely baby son or something. In any case, I still think Jacob visited her at the time of her miscarriage or something - so, no Jacob to visit her, no change in her life. (I think Jacob also might have had an active hand in persuading Shannon to go home with Boone in the original timeline... and that he also convinced Charlie to have a haircut. :lol:) Unless of course Jacob was off the Island when the bomb went off...

I noticed too that Jack had a business card - perhaps because Jacob wasn't around to encourage him [and give him a candybar] he left St. Sebastian and started up his own practice away from his father? I didn't catch the details on the business card so I'm not sure if he's still the main resident surgeon at St. Sebastian.

Sorry, I'm rambling here.

Last night I was thinking about how it would have affected Hurley - my feeling about his comment on being "the luckiest guy alive" despite winning the lottery with "bad" numbers, and being generally happy and content with his life, is that Hurley would still have acquired the Numbers from his friend in Santa Rosa as he might have heard them while the Island was still around, and they would have been used as lottery numbers to make him win the rollover jackpot, but without the Island there to perpetuate them throughout the world somehow, they were no longer "bad" and so he was to lead a successful and lucky life. (But on the other hand, would the numbers still have come up in the first place in the Lottery if the Island was there or not, i.e. did the Island's far-reaching properties influence the result of the Lottery?)

I'd like to think that Damon and Carlton were clever enough to work out all of these possibilities for each and every character - something that Daniel, Jack and the rest didn't quite have time to work out (well, perhaps Hurley and Miles might have put their heads together :guffaw:) when they set up us the bomb. :)

Exactly how would Juliet know that it worked?
Er, um...she has a psychic connection with her doppleganger in the parallel reality who is somehow aware that her reality just changed? Or maybe we just chalk it up to artistic license. Everything in this maniac mess doesn't have to make 100% sense!
I still think what she meant was that prior to Jack and company coming back and ruining things, she and Sawyer were trying to conceive. I'm not sure, but it's just a gut feeling (no pun intended).

It's also clever that they've hit on an all-new way of doing the island/mainland story split. They've pretty much tried them all by now, haven't they? Flashback, flash-forward, split the gang between island and mainland and now, parallel realities. Is there anything else they could try if there was an S7?

Zombies. Obviously. :bolian:
 
these are parallel realities, not different timelines of the same reality. It's the same logic as Star Trek XI. You can have two Spocks in the same place because they're not the same guy.
Having thought about it some more, it can work in more than one way:

1) Time travel within a single universe followed by an explosion that creates a parallel second universe (both realities share a pre-explosion past), or

2) Time travel is actually travel between pre-existing parallels, with the explosion causing the current parallel to unfold in a different way while flinging the LOSTIES who caused it back to their home parallel.

And there's probably more ways than that (Pre-existing parallels and "Y" shaped branching, perhaps....), knowing this show...

Also, the podcast confirmed that both realities are equally real and valid - there's no "Prime" and "Alternate" here. Groovy.

:D
 
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