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Lane-splitting

Should lane-splitting be legal in your area? State why in the thread.

  • It is legal in my area, and I think it should be.

    Votes: 5 10.0%
  • It is legal in my area, and I do not think it should be.

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • It is not legal in my area, and I think it should be.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is not legal in my area, and I do not think it should be.

    Votes: 34 68.0%

  • Total voters
    50
I understand that when a lot of people think of lane splitting they automatically think of the people who are doing it wrong, because those are the experiences that stand out int heir minds. If you do it right, it shouldn't leave much of an impression at all. It would just be a momentary awareness that someone is passing you on a bike at a speed not much faster than your own and you'd be on with your day. That's what I am asking here...not so much what everyone thinks about the people who do it incorrectly and/or illegally (which obviously most people will be against) but rather what the opinion is on it when it is done right and within the prescribed guidelines.
 
I understand that when a lot of people think of lane splitting they automatically think of the people who are doing it wrong, because those are the experiences that stand out int heir minds. If you do it right, it shouldn't leave much of an impression at all. It would just be a momentary awareness that someone is passing you on a bike at a speed not much faster than your own and you'd be on with your day. That's what I am asking here...not so much what everyone thinks about the people who do it incorrectly and/or illegally (which obviously most people will be against) but rather what the opinion is on it when it is done right and within the prescribed guidelines.

That's the thing, though; you have to take into account the people who do it wrongly, because those people will do it and get themselves or somebody else killed. It's why cars can't legally whip around other, slower cars. Even if there's enough clearance on the side of the road, it just opens up the chances for disaster.
 
I can look up crashes in motorsports all day. Should racing of any sort of motor vehicle be illegal because I can show a video of someone crashing while doing it?
Racing is a sport. It's voluntary.

If you can't tell the difference between a sport (where all participants are there voluntarily) and the street (where the person you're weaving between and cutting off in traffic isn't volunteering to get involved in your deathsports), then you might need to go back to motorcycle safety school.
 
re, lane-splitting: no.

Okay...that's Europe. It's all over the place in Asia. They don't have the most strict driving regulations in most countries over there but it is a very common occurance.

Shit like this is also a very common occurrence in Asia.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzx92rNVjzs[/yt]

Just because something's common there, that doesn't mean that I'd want it here in North America.

I would think that as long as everyone on the road knows that it's a possibility that a bike can be using that area of the road, there would be fewer issues.
One could also say that as long as everyone on the road knows that it isn't allowed, there would be fewer issues. In fact, well-designed traffic systems reduce the number of possibilities that drivers have to consider. That's the whole idea behind stoplights, for example: when they have a green light, drivers know that a vehicle crossing their path from a perpendicular direction is a possibility that's not allowed (though, of course, defensive driving is always a good idea).
 
When I moved to CA I studied before my written driving test because I'm a huge nerd. I remember reading about lane splitting and I was surprised that it was legal, but kept that in mind as I drove around and tried to keep an open mind. I saw a lot of people doing it, especially on the highway when traffic would start to get backed up.

Honestly, one thing I hated about driving in CA was all the motorcycles in the first place. I'm a very conscientious driver and I'm thorough about checking when I change lanes and all, but it's so easy to miss a motorcycle, especially one that's lane splitting or weaving in and out of traffic. I was always really paranoid about hitting one.

I don't know what the reasoning is behind having it be legal in CA, but I'm glad to be in a state now where it's not legal. There are so many things I hate about the traffic here but I'm grateful that this isn't one of them.

Edit: I see Asia being mentioned and my experiences are pretty much limited to India, but traffic there is a whole different game. It's really like comparing apples and oranges.
 
When I moved to CA I studied before my written driving test because I'm a huge nerd. I remember reading about lane splitting and I was surprised that it was legal, but kept that in mind as I drove around and tried to keep an open mind. I saw a lot of people doing it, especially on the highway when traffic would start to get backed up.

Honestly, one thing I hated about driving in CA was all the motorcycles in the first place. I'm a very conscientious driver and I'm thorough about checking when I change lanes and all, but it's so easy to miss a motorcycle, especially one that's lane splitting or weaving in and out of traffic. I was always really paranoid about hitting one.

I don't know what the reasoning is behind having it be legal in CA, but I'm glad to be in a state now where it's not legal. There are so many things I hate about the traffic here but I'm grateful that this isn't one of them.

Edit: I see Asia being mentioned and my experiences are pretty much limited to India, but traffic there is a whole different game. It's really like comparing apples and oranges.

Exactly. It sets up a really tense environment for the driver, which is just a bad idea all around.
 
That's what I don't understand..I drove for 10 years before getting a bike, all in California, and have never been tense or nervous about the possibility of a bike lane splitting or having one pass me. I usually hear them first, and when I do I slide over a bit to give them more room. The only time I would have an issue is if the rider was being an idiot about it trying to split while traffic is flowing normally. That, I agree, is stupid and unsafe. I'm only talking about at speeds of 30-35 and under, when it's legal and following the guidelines.

Part of my commute is on a two lane, one direction each way road. It routinely gets backed up, and I would love to just use the bike lane or something, but I can't because it's not legal and not to mention it would mean passing on the right, which is both illegal and unsafe. The guidelines are there for a reason and IMO as long as people driving both types of vehicles know and adhere to them, everything would be fine.
 
That's what I don't understand..I drove for 10 years before getting a bike, all in California, and have never been tense or nervous about the possibility of a bike lane splitting or having one pass me. I usually hear them first, and when I do I slide over a bit to give them more room. The only time I would have an issue is if the rider was being an idiot about it trying to split while traffic is flowing normally. That, I agree, is stupid and unsafe. I'm only talking about at speeds of 30-35 and under, when it's legal and following the guidelines.

Part of my commute is on a two lane, one direction each way road. It routinely gets backed up, and I would love to just use the bike lane or something, but I can't because it's not legal and not to mention it would mean passing on the right, which is both illegal and unsafe. The guidelines are there for a reason and IMO as long as people driving both types of vehicles know and adhere to them, everything would be fine.

Most roads aren't made to have anything between the two lanes.
 
The must make our lanes extra wide here in CA then because unless someone is hugging the line, I always have plenty of room to fit down the middle. And if I don't have room or don't see an exit route, I don't split.
 
I voted that it's legal here (California) and that I think it should be illegal again.

Yes, there's still the threat that cars can suddenly change lanes in front of me, but if the rider is being cautious and riding slowly enough, they should be able to react to such an event without a collision occurring.

Even if traffic is at a standstill and you're doing 10mph, you're still moving at around 15 feet per second. You have to have pretty fast reflexes to take the one to two seconds necessary to recognize a problem, take the one to two seconds necessary to react to it, and then however many feet it takes you to brake or swerve to avoid an accident. Even a moment's distraction will turn you into street pizza.

Also, don't the DMV guidelines recommend that new and inexperienced riders don't lane-split, and generally discourage the practice even though it's legal? What have you been doing this for, a few months? Here it is. From the California DMV Handbook for new motorcyclists:

Lane Sharing
Vehicles and motorcycles each need a full lane to operate safely. Lane sharing is not safe. Riding between rows of stopped or moving vehicles in the same lane can leave you vulnerable. A vehicle could turn suddenly or change lanes, a door could open, or a hand could come out of a window. Discourage lane sharing by others.

I can't imagine having to sit in traffic on my bike, adding to the congestion when I could help to relieve it by using that space between cars that only a bike can fit into.
The much less congested carpool lane is legally open to motorcycle riders at all hours for safety reasons. Why can't you just use that?

You keep repeating this idea that lane-splitting frees up traffic for cars, but there simply aren't enough motorcycles on the road here to make any kind of noticeable dent in traffic conditions by lane-splitting. Maybe in some place where scooters and motorcycles represent a significant portion of the road traffic (between 25-50%), but here it's not going to have any significant effect with so few motorcyclists.

Also, a slim little crotch-rocket would have no trouble negotiating the gap between cars, but some of the larger bikes like Harley's and so forth have pretty wide handlebars and saddlebags that can make the gap much smaller. All it would take is a twitch of the wrist or a bump in the road to swerve enough to clip a car.

At least here, people seem to know that it's legal and folks will often move over to make way for riders.
A 2012 survey showed that only 53% of surveyed drivers in California are aware that lane-splitting is legal. So almost half the drivers on the road have no idea that it's permitted and that they should be on the lookout for it.

The OTS survey showed that only 53 percent of vehicle drivers knew that lane splitting is legal in California.
http://www.ots.ca.gov/Media_and_Res...c/2012_Motorcycle_Survey_and_Safety_Month.pdf

And when the driver is "moving over" to give you more room, they are then reducing the size of the gap on the other side of the car, which can make it more dangerous if a biker is over there, or increases the chances of sideswiping another car.

What if a driver or passenger has their arm outside the vehicle? I sure as hell don't want my long ass tree trunk arms getting torn off by some guy on a bike who's too impatient to wait in traffic like everyone else. Or they have some sort of outsized item like lumber, a carpet, or a Christmas tree sticking out the window (seen a lot of that this month)?

What if a car has to swerve a bit to avoid an obstacle in the road or another driver encroaching on their lane because the car is in their blind spot and they try and change lanes? Now they have to worry about motorcycles being in the gap that would normally have been some free space to safely maneuver.

I also try to make sure I am in a low gear so they can hear me coming, and am looking into getting some hazard flashers on the front to make me that much more visible.
While it's good that it makes it more obvious that you're coming, having a huge noise from a bike suddenly blow past you can also be distracting to the driver (not to mention a major irritant).

I have yet to come close to clipping anybody's mirror. It's all about planning your approach and timing when you pass each vehicle.
That doesn't mean everyone else is as conscientious. My uncle is a biker himself and a lawyer who represents motorcyclists who have been in accidents or traffic stops. They hit the side mirrors on cars (especially) all the time while lane-splitting. He always recommends against lane-splitting to his son (also a biker) and doesn't do it himself.

Some statistics from the California Office of Traffic Safety survey about lane-splitting that I quoted above. Take note that nearly 15% of motorcyclists who responded said that they have either hit a car or been hit by a car while lane-splitting. That hardly sounds like a safe practice to me.

–77.6 percent of motorcyclists say they lane split, with 30.9 percent saying they do it all the time.

–7.3 percent of drivers say they’ve tried to prevent a motorcyclist from lane splitting. Of them, 43.6 percent said they did it because lane splitting is unsafe and 23.1 percent said it was because “it is unfair they get ahead of me.”

–67.2 percent of motorcyclists said a driver has tried to prevent them from lane splitting.

–91 percent of drivers said they have motorcyclists split lanes next to them nearly every day of the week.

–5.3 percent of drivers said they had been in a collision with a motorcyclist on a freeway.

–11.7 percent of motorcyclists say a vehicle had hit them while lane splitting; 3.2 percent said they had hit a vehicle.

–19.1 percent of drivers said they had witnessed a collision involving a motorcyclist who was lane splitting.


–36.6 percent of drivers “strongly approve” or “somewhat approve” of lane splitting, while 63.4 percent “strongly disapprove” or “somewhat disapprove.”

–53 percent of drivers know that lane splitting is legal.


http://roadwarrior.blogs.pressdemocrat.com/14544/motorcycle-lane-splitting-controversial-and-legal/
Is it really that hard to look for a bike when you're changing lanes, though? For me it's just all a part of looking to see if the lane I'm heading into is clear.
Yes, it is. Let's say traffic is moving at 20mph and a biker is lane-splitting at 30mph according to the guidelines. That means that he's moving at about 45 feet per second. If the traffic is densely packed, and the biker is approaching on the passenger side of the car, you would go from being completely out of view of the driver looking back and to the right and to being in the blind spot of his side view mirror in a second or two, which is not long enough for reaction time to kick in and avoid the accident. It would be even worse if a truck or SUV was behind the car restricting its field of view even more.

Also, unlike your point above, isn't one of the things they tell you that you should always ride with the expectation that others don't see you and behave accordingly? That's what this CHP officer and former biker says as well:

Sloat, who said he used to ride motorcycles, said his safety tip to motorcyclists is “to ride like no one sees you. You have to be on your toes.”
http://roadwarrior.blogs.pressdemocrat.com/10066/more-on-motorcycles-splitting-lanes/
 
The must make our lanes extra wide here in CA then because unless someone is hugging the line, I always have plenty of room to fit down the middle. And if I don't have room or don't see an exit route, I don't split.

They must, because where I live (Ohio), most roads have lanes that are just wide enough to accommodate the car itself. You have to keep in mind that over the past 25 years or so, cars have become wider than they were when most roads were first paved, and unless a road is in serious disrepair, those same roads (and road dimensions) are likely still there.
 
I voted that it's legal here (California) and that I think it should be illegal again.

Yes, there's still the threat that cars can suddenly change lanes in front of me, but if the rider is being cautious and riding slowly enough, they should be able to react to such an event without a collision occurring.

Even if traffic is at a standstill and you're doing 10mph, you're still moving at around 15 feet per second. You have to have pretty fast reflexes to take the one to two seconds necessary to recognize a problem, take the one to two seconds necessary to react to it, and then however many feet it takes you to brake or swerve to avoid an accident. Even a moment's distraction will turn you into street pizza.

That is why I cover the brake and clutch and am always scanning up ahead, ready to stop if I have to. I don't know how slow others' reflexes are but it doesn't take me 2 full seconds to go from 10 mph to a full stop.

Also, don't the DMV guidelines recommend that new and inexperienced riders don't lane-split, and generally discourage the practice even though it's legal? What have you been doing this for, a few months?

I took the MSF course last April and bought the bike in late May. I have been riding to work the majority of the time since as well as for reasons other than my commute. I've averaged about 450-500 miles per month riding and have ridden with very experienced riders. I didn't start splitting right away and when I did I started small and worked up my confidence. There are still times where I won't do it because I don't feel the conditions are right for it.

I can't imagine having to sit in traffic on my bike, adding to the congestion when I could help to relieve it by using that space between cars that only a bike can fit into.
The much less congested carpool lane is legally open to motorcycle riders at all hours for safety reasons. Why can't you just use that?

Because during my commute the traffic jams get so bad that even the HOV lanes come to a stop. That, and the HOV lanes eventually stop being HOV lanes at certain areas and times which is when everyone and their mother ends up using thm and backing them up.

You keep repeating this idea that lane-splitting frees up traffic for cars, but there simply aren't enough motorcycles on the road here to make any kind of noticeable dent in traffic conditions by lane-splitting. Maybe in some place where scooters and motorcycles represent a significant portion of the road traffic (between 25-50%), but here it's not going to have any significant effect with so few motorcyclists.

In the video I linked to they state that if even 10% of LA's population took to riding motorcycles, traffic congestion would drop by 40%. I don't know where they got these numbers but if true, an even smaller percentage of riders would seem to have a pretty good impact on traffic conditions.

Also, a slim little crotch-rocket would have no trouble negotiating the gap between cars, but some of the larger bikes like Harley's and so forth have pretty wide handlebars and saddlebags that can make the gap much smaller. All it would take is a twitch of the wrist or a bump in the road to swerve enough to clip a car.

And if their bike is too wide, they shouldn't split unless they can make it through. That's one of the guidelines CHP laid out: if you don't think you can fit, don't split. My cruiser is a bit wider than a lot of these street bikes so yeah, there are times where I abstain. It's really about common sense and having spatial awareness of where you can and cannot go.

A 2012 survey showed that only 53% of surveyed drivers in California are aware that lane-splitting is legal. So almost half the drivers on the road have no idea that it's permitted and that they should be on the lookout for it.

That simply tells me that we need better driver education.

And when the driver is "moving over" to give you more room, they are then reducing the size of the gap on the other side of the car, which can make it more dangerous if a biker is over there, or increases the chances of sideswiping another car.

99% of the times people have moved over for me have been when I am between the 1 and 2 lane and the car in lane 1 moves to their left. There would obviously not be anyone to their left, so thee's no issue. You're right though, people shouldn't be moving over if there's a car on the side they're moving towards.

What if a driver or passenger has their arm outside the vehicle? I sure as hell don't want my long ass tree trunk arms getting torn off by some guy on a bike who's too impatient to wait in traffic like everyone else. Or they have some sort of outsized item like lumber, a carpet, or a Christmas tree sticking out the window (seen a lot of that this month)?

Shouldn't people be keeping their arms and other extremities inside the vehicle anyway? It doesn't seem particularly safe to dangle your hand out he window in any situation. As for the other examples, those are all things the rider should keep an eye out for and act accordingly.

What if a car has to swerve a bit to avoid an obstacle in the road or another driver encroaching on their lane because the car is in their blind spot and they try and change lanes? Now they have to worry about motorcycles being in the gap that would normally have been some free space to safely maneuver.

While it's good that it makes it more obvious that you're coming, having a huge noise from a bike suddenly blow past you can also be distracting to the driver (not to mention a major irritant).

If the rider is splitting at low speeds then none of those instances should be happening so quickly that there isn't time to react.

Also, my bike is a stock Honda...there's nothing "huge noise" about it, but it is loud enough to at least let someone know I am there.

Also, unlike your point above, isn't one of the things they tell you that you should always ride with the expectation that others don't see you and behave accordingly? That's what this CHP officer and former biker says as well:

Sloat, who said he used to ride motorcycles, said his safety tip to motorcyclists is “to ride like no one sees you. You have to be on your toes.”
http://roadwarrior.blogs.pressdemocrat.com/10066/more-on-motorcycles-splitting-lanes/

I actually live by that saying as well...I ride as if I am invisible and never assume that anybody sees me. I make a point to position myself in places where I can be seen so that nobody can ever say, "Oh, I never even saw him." in the event of an accident. I also live by the saying "Never ride somewhere your mind hasn't been 5 seconds earlier." and am always thinking ahead. That's especially important when splitting.

I still feel like everyone focuses too much on those doing it incorrectly and unsafely and ignore those who are actually prudent about it and are responsible with the privilege that's been given them. That's how I see it...it is a privilege earned by the rider. Yes, being in a car is safer, and for that safety you sacrifice being able to keep moving in a traffic jam. Being on a bike, I am taking my safety into my own hands a lot more, and for that I am able to earn the ability to keep moving, which is beneficial in more ways than just getting where I am going faster.

I think if people look at it that way there wouldn't be as much animosity toward bikers just because they get to go up ahead while you're stuck at a stand still in a car.
 
I've lived in the Bay Area all my life, so I've seen this practice plenty of times. While I've never personally witnessed an accident, I've seen a number of close calls.

Flux,
a lot of what you are talking about with people "doing it right" is good in theory. But in practice, it's another matter.

I am on the Bay Bridge during rush hour every weekday, and have been for the last several years now. Being on a bus (and being someone who sometimes passes the commute by making sure I snag a seat that will afford me a good view and then just traffic+scenery watching the whole way), I have a good vantage point. I can see the entire roadway and all five lanes very well, and one of my problems with lane-splitting is that cyclists do it ALL THE TIME. The only time they don't is if traffic on the bridge is moving at a steady 50 MPH (which, during rush hour on a weekday, is rather uncommon). If it's anything below 35-ish, in comes the splitting.

I can kind of see an argument for motorcycles being allowed to do this in STOPPED traffic, or traffic that is moving at like... 10 MPH (with the cyclist allowed to go maybe 20, tops). And I don't even have too much of a problem with the base concept, in and of itself, that a motorcycle could be afforded some extra privileges on the road simply because it's smaller and more fuel-efficient. After all, that's why they can use the HOV lanes despite being one-person vehicles. At the other end of the spectrum, all accommodations for buses on roads and highways (of which there aren't nearly enough if you ask me, but there are some, such as a bus and taxi only lane leading up to the Bay Bridge in SF that AC Transit's transbay buses use) are based on the same concept. This is a vehicle that transports many more passengers than any auto could possibly hold, so we reward the people that ride it by allowing their vehicle to use HOV lines and blocking off some parts of the roadways as bus only.

My problem is that if traffic is moving, steadily, at 20 MPH or above, then it becomes completely unnecessary. That's plenty fast enough for a commute/rush hour situation. No, it's not ideal, and no, it's not the speed limit on the bridge, but it's just not a big deal. If traffic is moving at 25 MPH, just stay in the flow and go at the same speed as everyone else. Motorcycles routinely split at such speeds, and I also often see them diving in and out of the traffic flow repeatedly and cutting across lanes. This strikes me as extremely unsafe, and at that point, you're just being greedy. There is no good reason why motorcycle riders need to be given this accommodation to engage in highly dangerous behavior to avoid the horrendous fate of being stuck in 25 MPH traffic for an extra ten minutes.

I also have to agree with others who question the logic of the "I'm helping out by getting out of the way" defense. Motorcycles are too small and too few in number for that to really be significantly beneficial. I'm firmly of the opinion that lane-splitting benefits exactly ONE class of vehicle on the road: the motorcycles themselves.
For everyone else, it just makes things more difficult. In particular, a couple of things from Hocutus:

What if a car has to swerve a bit to avoid an obstacle in the road or another driver encroaching on their lane because the car is in their blind spot and they try and change lanes? Now they have to worry about motorcycles being in the gap that would normally have been some free space to safely maneuver.
This strikes me as a major concern, and is the issue in the majority of close calls I have seen. Car drivers have enough to worry about as it is (and not all drivers are paying enough attention to all that stuff as it is); they don't need to have this in the mix, as well. Lanes were not designed to accommodate a vehicle in between them like this. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it works well. The space being occupied by the motorcycle is SUPPOSED to be a fallback space for emergencies, sudden unexpected movements by other cars, etc.

While it's good that it makes it more obvious that you're coming, having a huge noise from a bike suddenly blow past you can also be distracting to the driver (not to mention a major irritant).
On this, I've been in a car (as a passenger) when motorcycles have passed by me. It can be quite jarring, and definitely can be a distraction to the driver.

Contrasting motorcycles and buses again, a bus-only lane across the bridge itself (i.e. the whole way, not just the on-ramp) would make a LOT more sense from this perspective, because moving all the buses out of the flow of traffic would actually have a major impact on said flow and the ease with which cars (and bikes) navigate it, because buses are HUGE. So it would not only benefit the bus riders, but actually would benefit everyone else, and isn't potentially very unsafe like lane-splitting is.

Again, a proposal to make lane splitting legal ONLY when the traffic is moving at something like 15 MPH or less, I might be able to get behind. Even then I'm not 100% sure about it, because as has also been pointed out, there are still hazards at those speeds (or even in completely stopped traffic), and I'm not sure it's worth it. But anything above that? No. The way things are now? No.
 
I would actually be fine with limiting splitting to lower speeds, as I never do it if traffic is at or above 35mph. If overall traffic speed is fast enough for a surface street, there is no need to split. The only time I will split on surface streets is when there is a short line stopped at a red light, and at that point I'm "filtering" toward the front so that I can get out of the middle of the pack, which is always a bad spot for a rider. You have to think about all the things that a rider has to pay attention to on the road...many more than the driver of a car does. By filtering through, getting to the front of the queue and then being able to take off and get in front of everyone, the rider is in a more comfortable position than if he had sat in between everyone and remained there. Nothing is more disconcerting to a rider than being followed closely or being surrounded by other cars like that. Filtering allows them to get up and away from all of that.

But I agree, splitting at speeds higher than 35 is stupid and is not legal, and I wouldn't be against some tighter restrictions on the laws.

This is actually a really good example of safe and prudent lane splitting on a surface street. Well, up until the end, but for the majority he does things very similarly to how I would.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oM_ayYy8Ok[/yt]
 
Why is this guy automatically an idiot? Everything he did on the road was completely legal. Since when does following the law make someone an idiot? Just because you don't agree with the law? Yeah, that's fair.
 
I noticed that the first thing the guy does is a U-turn. Is that legal in California?

I also have to wonder how often he's speeding. Speeding is against the law in CA, right?
 
This is actually a really good example of safe and prudent lane splitting on a surface street. Well, up until the end, but for the majority he does things very similarly to how I would.

THAT was what you consider safe and prudent and similar to what you do? Holy shit. I was cringing throughout that whole video and expecting that douche to smack into someone's car, or worse, that old lady who crossed the middle of the road. Those lanes were way too narrow for him to be lane-splitting safely. I thought we were talking about doing it on the freeway where you have a little more wiggle room.

He almost hit cars that were pulling into the next lane a few times, and even more often came really close to clipping mirrors and side-wiping cars that were leaning to the far left or right of the lane. He was dangerously weaving in and out of traffic instead of sticking to one gap and getting mad that drivers made a turn without noticing him, but why would they when they're concentrating on the cars and the lanes and not someone sprinting out of a gap between them?

I'm sorry, but that looked incredibly reckless to me.
 
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