Lane-splitting
- Thread starter Tiberius Jim
- Start date
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Except it's not a personal jab. There is demonstrable proof that when you start threads like this and you ask for opinions, you also ignore what everyone who disagrees with you says or misconstrue it into imagined, personal attacks against you.
You claim you can't see why it would be considered "dickish" as Treker put it. I'm telling you that I don't doubt that you can't see why because you have no sense of perception when it comes to people with different ideas, opinions, or attitudes than you.
That's not a personal jab. It's a statement of fact based on empirical evidence easily found on this very message board.
I see it as "dickish" because it's at the very least encroaching on the narrow space between cars which, again, could potentially clip a wing-mirror if the rider isn't being careful. But, beyond that, it's the biker getting to say, "I'm better than all of you so I'm cutting to the head of the line or going to keep moving forward while all of you cagers crawl forward at idle!"
If we're going to "share the road" then the rules should be applied equally to everyone. Not special rules for certain people just because they happen to have a narrower and more maneuverable vehicle. Motorcyclists are no more special than the cars on the road so why do they get to do special things? Let's say there's two lanes of cars and in each lane the row of cars on hugging the extreme edges of the lane, leaving a narrow car-width gap in the middle. If I'm driving a narrow car (say a Smart Car) do i get to cruise up that opening?
I don't?
So why does a motorcyclist get to cruise up a gap big enough for *him*?
If we're going to "share the road" then the rules should be applied equally to everyone. Not special rules for certain people just because they happen to have a narrower and more maneuverable vehicle. Motorcyclists are no more special than the cars on the road so why do they get to do special things? Let's say there's two lanes of cars and in each lane the row of cars on hugging the extreme edges of the lane, leaving a narrow car-width gap in the middle. If I'm driving a narrow car (say a Smart Car) do i get to cruise up that opening?
I don't?
So why does a motorcyclist get to cruise up a gap big enough for *him*?
Actually, it is not. In Europe, it's legal only in Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria. It's tolerated sometimes, especially given the narrow and tortured medieval roads of European cities.
Of course, here in Italy scooters and small motorbikes zip around in the congested traffic without any respect for laws and limbs, but that's pretty much part of the accepted landscape. Still, outside of the narrow streets of the historical city centre, it's frowned upon, and mostly practiced only when waiting on traffic lights.
I'm not ignoring anyone who disagrees, I am having a discussion about the topic. Am I supposed just give up my opinion the moment someone disagrees with it? It's called discussion, point/counterpoint, debate...whatever you want to call it. If someone gives a reason for why they believe something and I disagree, I give my reasoning why. Again...discussion. I'm not the one criticizing anyone's powers of perception here.
I don't see what's funny about that statement, it's a fact. If I decide to ride my bike rather than drive my car, and then lane-split, there is now a spot open for another car in the line of traffic that I otherwise would have occupied.
Why are you so concerned about someone being perceived as "special"? A bike can fit through the gap, therefore they use the gap. The state of California obviously recognizes the benefits of this and they allow it. It's not like we're a bunch of rebels out on the roads causing trouble...the state tells us we can go ahead and do it. Why would I sit in traffic, taking up a spot and making myself vulnerable to a rear end collision that would very surely kill me when I am allowed by law to make use of unused lane space?
I don't see what's funny about that statement, it's a fact. If I decide to ride my bike rather than drive my car, and then lane-split, there is now a spot open for another car in the line of traffic that I otherwise would have occupied.
Why are you so concerned about someone being perceived as "special"? A bike can fit through the gap, therefore they use the gap. The state of California obviously recognizes the benefits of this and they allow it. It's not like we're a bunch of rebels out on the roads causing trouble...the state tells us we can go ahead and do it. Why would I sit in traffic, taking up a spot and making myself vulnerable to a rear end collision that would very surely kill me when I am allowed by law to make use of unused lane space?
I ride a cycle, and I would never "lane-split". It's stupidly dangerous. I would hate it if a car tried to go between me and another vehicle, why the hell would I want to do something as dangerous as weaving through traffic (which is all "lane-splitting" is- ignorantly weaving through traffic).
Unless someone is in a hurry to donate their organs...
Unless someone is in a hurry to donate their organs...
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Indeed. It'd be one thing if drivers were as allegedly meticulous about traffic law and performance as Flux perports to be, but they aren't. Especially not in California.
Again, it's just dangerous. I understand the logic of how it "saves" on traffic congestion and what not, but I also think it does so at increased risk and opportunity for crashes and disaster.
Again, it's just dangerous. I understand the logic of how it "saves" on traffic congestion and what not, but I also think it does so at increased risk and opportunity for crashes and disaster.
I'd question the assumption of saving on traffic congestion. It's also likely vehicles sliding between cars will cause slow down to avoid collision which will ghost through the traffic lanes and over all create greater congestion from speed changes and increasing the variation in lane width which will further congest surrounding lanes.
I used to play bass for Crashes and Disaster.
It doesn't, really, because at one point you'll have to get back into the lane where someone will have to make way for you.
Yes, indeed, but during lane-splitting you're within a long pack of cars and in a way that's unexpected to some or many drivers, especially if it's only legal in your state but not in surrounding ones.
I'm surprised it's legal anywhere because it strikes me as really dangerous behaviour. Even if traffic has come to a standstill there are hazards to look out for, e.g. doors opening suddenly. In moving traffic it's ridiculously risky.
A
Amaris
Guest
The danger still exists, however. You're counting on another driver to let you back in (as Count Zero mentions above). Not only that, but if traffic is slow, then it's slow for a reason. Zipping in between other cars is only going to exacerbate an already congested situation.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GH8D2EqDZs[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRzjKOUX6RE[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2qAMHI44zY[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRzjKOUX6RE[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2qAMHI44zY[/yt]
I'm pretty much willing to bet a week's pay that you could never find a motorcycle safety instructor, or a professional motorcycle racer, or a motorcycle cop, that would agree that cramming in between two bigger vehicles is an acceptable way to ride ANY time.
It's okay because 1. We can fit, while other vehicles can't. 2. Because it helps relieve congestion in traffic 3. A rider is safer when ahead of a pack of cars
than within it. Getting upset that a smaller vehicle can get up ahead and you can't seems a bit illogical, especially when the fact that they are where they are means another driver got to take their spot. You could have gotten home just a bit faster because traffic wasn't full of people who were on bikes.
Good points, and yes, that's how I feel about it, too. I mean, this MUST be safe, right?
I've been in a similar situation. If I were the rider, I would fall back and take my position in the traffic queue. Just because someone starts to lane split doesn't mean they can't stop. I would then wait until those trucks were no longer side by side and continue ahead.
Riders like that give all riders a bad reputation.
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I hate it when motorcycles do that when I'm on the road. I can definitely see it being very disconcerting to others.
I splot the lane once. It was awful.
I've heard the practice referred to as "splitting traffic," and I had no idea it was legal in my own state. Law enforcement officers on motorcycles do it, but they're specially trained for it and (presumably) know what they're doing.
I appreciate that, but in this case I have to go with the mainstream opinion. For all the reasons mentioned here, it's just too damned dangerous.
As the OP pointed out, it's legal in California. But then, California exists in an alternate reality anyway.
My bad, I intended to reply to Flux's comment about it "legal just about everywhere in the world", but messed up the quote.As the OP pointed out, it's legal in California. But then, California exists in an alternate reality anyway.
I see your point, but I don't count on anyone to do anything for me. I won't force my way in anywhere but will simply find a spot that's already clear until I am able to proceed between lanes again. I don't constantly have to be splitting. Sometimes it's more of a leap frog sort of deal where if traffic speed picks up again I will fall in line.
Congrats, you know how to search for videos on YouTube and then post them. You can find evidence of any potentially risky activity going badly. I can look up crashes in motorsports all day. Should racing of any sort of motor vehicle be illegal because I can show a video of someone crashing while doing it? I can also find a lot of car vs. car crashes, too. If you're not going to do something because someone either did get hurt while doing it or might get hurt in the future, you might as well just lock yourself in your house and never do anything, ever.
Besides, there are several things that both parties in all three videos did wrong that lead to their respective collisions. The third guy even admits he didn't have room. The other two shouldn't have been passing on the right and were going pretty fast, nor should the vehicles that hit them have been turning to the right. That white van had a double solid yellow on their right, and I don't know where that black Scion was trying to go. Either way all three riders could have been more careful with their splitting where both speed and lane position are concerned.
Since you're in a state where it is illegal, I can see how it would be annoying. But in an area where drivers are accustomed to it and know that it's legal, I don't see why there would be a problem. Even before I rode I was aware of the law and was never surprised by someone splitting lanes.
My bad, I intended to reply to Flux's comment about it "legal just about everywhere in the world", but messed up the quote.As the OP pointed out, it's legal in California. But then, California exists in an alternate reality anyway.
Okay...that's Europe. It's all over the place in Asia. They don't have the most strict driving regulations in most countries over there but it is a very common occurance. I would think that as long as everyone on the road knows that it's a possibility that a bike can be using that area of the road, there would be fewer issues.
A
Amaris
Guest
That's because you're actively thinking about how you would approach a situation. Not to put down everyone who is one, because I am one, but our town is filled with rednecks. Lots and lots of rednecks, and they own crotch rockets. It makes me nervous as hell when lane splitting happens, and that's one of the reasons why.
