Klingon Cloak... Without Honor?
- Thread starter Mojochi
- Start date
Well, Klingons are beast; a very aggressive beast. They are the predators that hunt the preys. And let us see how the predators attack their preys. Just watch how Tigers and Lions hunt for food. I think they use stealth / sneaking / pretending, etc first to approach the target, before charge into the unaware prey.
The concept of honor that you write is basically the human concept of honor. For a predator, it just a foolish concept that make their hunting sense dull.
I just thinking, why don't they use the Lion or Tiger way of life to portray the Klingon? Use these beast social model as the basis and then expand it to make it complex and modern for a space empire species way of life.So rather than call their leader King or Emperor, the Klingon should call them the Alpha, etc.
The concept of honor that you write is basically the human concept of honor. For a predator, it just a foolish concept that make their hunting sense dull.
I just thinking, why don't they use the Lion or Tiger way of life to portray the Klingon? Use these beast social model as the basis and then expand it to make it complex and modern for a space empire species way of life.So rather than call their leader King or Emperor, the Klingon should call them the Alpha, etc.
Because then they would be the Hirogen?
You'd think with the old cloak they'd have conquered the Feds at a canter. Cloak mustn't be all it's cracked up to be.
Humans are predators too.
Well, not it isn't. The first time we saw the Klingons had a cloaking device was in Trek III, and there the thing had visual tells that could be detected with a naked eye. Plus, if we assume the cloaking device was a relatively new toy for them, perhaps something they got from the Romulans in exchange for giving them their ships, Klingons aren't really in active war with the Federation, and are in fact forbidden from fighting them by the Organians. Of course, by Trek III the Organians don't seem to be involved anymore, but at this point there are diplomatic relations between the Federation and the Klingons, and within a decade a peace treaty. The Federation was never really in conflict with the Klingons after they got a cloaking device. Indeed, the only confirmed battle between Starfleet and a cloaked Klingon ship was in TUC, but even then it was possible to modify a torpedo to track the cloaked ship. So no, Klingons with a cloak never really were a threat to the Federation.
The cloak is useful, but can't overcome everything. It has serious limitations. You must decloak to transport, to fire weapons, to raise shields. Your ship can travel undetected, but not much else.
They didn't actually say so as far as I remember, but my impression is that the Klingon Empire is quite a bit smaller than the Federation. Basically one race and the systems it dominates, as opposed to hundreds of races. So the Klingons with the cloak are probably still too small to prevail against the Federation.
They didn't actually say so as far as I remember, but my impression is that the Klingon Empire is quite a bit smaller than the Federation. Basically one race and the systems it dominates, as opposed to hundreds of races. So the Klingons with the cloak are probably still too small to prevail against the Federation.
They used transporter while cloaked in 'Star Trek IV.'
Nope. Klingons are a serious threat, certainly capable of defeating the Federation. 'Yesterday's Enterprise' show this.
And Klingon Empire probably contains several conquered alien worlds, we just usually don't see them as the Klingons occupy all the important roles in the empire. We see bunch of aliens on Rura Penthe though, presumably most of those come from worlds belonging to the Klingon Empire.
It's probably a sinch to detect a cloaked fleet. Listening outposts and Starbases would do this. A single ship, not so much. A single ship can probably slip in and out with impunity and this may turn Federation space near the Klingon border into a bit of no-mans land. The Organian involvement is probably limited to preventing a Cold War with nasty skirmishes from becoming a Hot War involving large fleets. They aren't micromanaging anything and likely are wise enough to know that a lasting peace needs to be consensual rather than coerced by a third party. I wonder whether the 'spacial anomaly' in Yesterday Enterprise was perhaps a rare Organian intervention to help our heroes repair things with the Klingons?
As for how honourable a cloaked device is. Well, it's camouflage isn't it? It's like a predator in the wild that disguises himself before he strikes. Concealment is also part of warfare. Also, it's hand-to-hand stuff the Klingons put emphasis on. Ship to ship conflict, which is impersonal, involving warriors being cocooned in large pieces of technology, well, maybe they are a little more unscrupulous when it comes to that. .
Yet, this coward dare to face and crash the famous Federation Galaxy Class Starship with a small, obsolete Bird of Prey. Well yes, they use stratagem. But still, it's a war, not sport.
If we use the sport term for this, then we can also say that Starfleet is coward. They use big ships like Constitution Class, Excelsior Class, Galaxy Class, etc to face the smaller Bird of Prey. It just like a heavy weight boxer face a feather weight one. But what can we say, All's fair in war and love.
That's. Klingon is the most ferocious predator in the galaxy. The cloaking device fit their characteristic perfectly.
Last edited:
Even ignoring this instance of transporter use (and I'm pretty sure there have been others), the idea that the ships can't fire while cloaked has always bugged me. I mean, phasers/disrupters? Sure. But if people can embark and disembark a cloaked ship (also shown multiple times), then why the heck wouldn't they be able to push out a torpedo? I mean, yes, the sudden appearance of a torpedo would be an almost dead giveaway as to where the ship that emitted it is at the moment (unless it could also be cloaked for at least part of its trip), but I can't think of any reason that it would de-cloak the ship.
I guess... maybe... when they say "can't fire while cloaked", they really mean "can't fire without giving away our shieldless position and getting blowed up real good". But that isn't what it seems like they've meant.
If the cloak is a very delicate system that requires very fine tuning I could see crude high-powered torpedoes and disruptors might upset a delicate balance rendering it impotent.
Klingons being honorable is kind of a joke, really. Of all the Klingons we've seen on screen, how many of them even came close to living up to the idea? I can only think of two myself, and one of those wasn't even really raised as a Klingon.
Sneak attacks, backstabbing, lying, cheating, and deception have been the standard modus operandi for the Klingons pretty much since day one. At least back when they were suffering from the modified Levodian flu and had smooth foreheads, they had the guile to go along with it. But since their return in the movies, they've pretty much just been thick brutes who only use the word "honor" to justify getting outraged at someone.
Sneak attacks, backstabbing, lying, cheating, and deception have been the standard modus operandi for the Klingons pretty much since day one. At least back when they were suffering from the modified Levodian flu and had smooth foreheads, they had the guile to go along with it. But since their return in the movies, they've pretty much just been thick brutes who only use the word "honor" to justify getting outraged at someone.
The cloaking device is merely a fancy hunting tool for the Klingons, no different than today's camouflage in a sense. It's after the cloak is dropped that a Klingon finds out what he or she is made of. As long as a Klingon doesn't bring shame to himself or his house by soiling his britches before an enemy, his honor is maintained. Now, other stuff that might be considered honorable to Humans or other non-Klingons could be considered irrelevant...
Alot of these races fall short of their ethos. Whenever we visit Vulcan and we have a look at their ruling elite, either in Enterprise or in TOS, there are usually a lot of fairly shabby decidedly illogical goings-on underway. Heck, the noble Starfleet itself is like that.
The hunting theme is one facet of Klingon culture, and the one they are most keen to advertise. They're secretly much more practical. Politicians are practical politicians, generals are practical generals and won't cede a combat advantage to the enemy when it matters.
In TNG era you get the impression the Klingons have the military to take on the Federation but not the political will. They're too busy keeping the infighting under control to launch any serious offensive. At the end of DS9 they have a seriously inferior military but a more unified court that happens to be led by a man very pro-Federation.
In TNG era you get the impression the Klingons have the military to take on the Federation but not the political will. They're too busy keeping the infighting under control to launch any serious offensive. At the end of DS9 they have a seriously inferior military but a more unified court that happens to be led by a man very pro-Federation.
I'm curious. This is a bit OOT. But we have witness the General Chang BOF that has a perfect cloaking device. But seems that the technology was lost after the TNG. what was really happen to that tech?
Similar threads
