Just watched season 1 of discovery

[eschaton]

I don't think Mary Wiseman is fat, but I could see why someone would consider her "hollywood fat." She definitely had a bit of a tum from the side in one of the shots near the end of Season 1. But that just means she looks like a normal woman. Keep in mind that Marina Sirtis was told she was fat by Roddenbery in the first season. Supposedly the reason she didn't get the security role she originally auditioned for was because she looked "too fat" in a spacesuit. Thus they switched her to counselor. She lost some weight after the first season, but even before, she looked perfectly normal.

In general, Trek uniforms are designed to look absolutely horrible if you have any fat on your body whatsoever. Which is why when several male cast members started putting on weight (Frakes, McNeil, Wang) they just started sticking them in girdles.

 

[KennyB]

Having just seen Mary Wiseman in person over the weekend at Destination Star Trek in Dortmund I can definitely confirm that she is nowhere near anything resembling “heavy”. She might not conform to current Hollywood beauty standards of body forms, but “heavy”? No. Way.

You beat me to it........there's quite a difference in being overweight/standards and Hollywood/Super Model build. Having served in the military and around the military for 30 years there are people of all shapes and sizes that may not look like a bean pole or Zumba instructor but are well within standards. Tilly/Wiseman is mostly closer to an average build calling her overweight just blows my mind a bit and shows how shallow some folks can be.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think Tilly has a beautiful figure. She has some curves and boobs! I would love to have her body

 

[Tenacity]

The Kelvin universe 1701 is called "Our newest flagship" in ST'09.

I took that to mean that all starships in the Abrams-universe are flagships.

 

[fireproof78]

I took that to mean that all starships in the Abrams-universe are flagships.

There are plenty of admirals and flag officers.

 

[Tenacity]

And the movie showed that all you have to be to command a flagship is a third year academy cadet.

 

[fireproof78]

And the movie showed that all you gave to be to command a flagship is a third year academy cadet.

He was already a lieutenant and loses the command in the next film. Consequences in Star Trek? I know. i was shocked too.

ETA: Also demonstrates that Star Trek has no idea what a flag ship actually is. But, it hasn't understood that since TNG.

 

[Gavin70]

Watched this over the last few days and was more than pleasantly surprised.
I did set the bar very low much like I did for those awful abrams movies, but Discovery was far better than I expected. I think Isaacs performances added some gravitas, and loved the character.
I was afraid after the first couple of episodes that Burnham might be too much of a figure that would dominate the show much as Janeway did in voyager but it was ok.

I know in these days of PC you expect gay characters and thought Stamets was a good character, and the Ash Tyler thing was decent.

My main bones of contention was tilly, first off she claimed she was special needs, and was also far too heavy to be a cadet.
Before anyone jumps on this moaning I have a problem with special needs or heavy people, the issue is the context in that I could not see any flagship having an overweight cadet let alone one that claimed she was special needs.
The Klingons still bother me with their look, and the Georgiou character was awful.
That said I did enjoy it a lot and look forward to season 2.
Is it proper trek in the canon sense....jury is still out on that.

I've also just finished season 1 and, after being initially unsure about it (I watched the first 6 episodes then gave it up for a couple of months before coming back to finish it) I have to say that I mostly enjoyed it and will be back for season 2. My main issues with the show are to do with the difficulties of matching the continuity up with the original series, but I can get past that by making the show an alternate timeline, with the past altered by Star Trek: Enterprise (that's not the official line but it's my head-canon for the show). That helps me accept the significantly advanced technology, as well as the differing looks of the Klingons, so that's less of an issue for me now.

I was also disappointed by the lack of development of a lot of the characters. It doesn't help that of the main crew that did get development, Lorca is dead (which is a shame because Jason Isaac's performance was a highlight), Ash Tyler left Discovery, Dr Culber was murdered, and Captain Georgiou was killed early on (although hopefully we'll see more of Emperor Georgiou. Of the original main cast only Burnham, Saru, Tilly, and Stamets look to be continuing as regulars next season. I'm still struggling to really enjoy Burnham as a character (her actions in the opening episodes made her fairly unlikeable for me and I'm still struggling to get past that, although she has made back some ground - I'm not keen on the fact that she was completely pardoned and given back her rank so quickly, I'd have liked to see her have to continue to earn back her place). Doug Jones is great as Saru (as he is in everything he does). I really hope season 2 lets us get to know some of the rest of the bridge crew a little better. I honestly don't even know any of their names at this stage.

Overall the show looks fantastic and I can only wish that the special effects of this series had been available for some of the earlier shows (can you imagine TOS or TNG with effects like these?)

 

[gazomg]

interesting points.

I am hoping that now mirror lorca is now dead, the real lorca might turn up after he was not dead after all, as the show badly needs characters like him.
As you said with the doctor dead, georgiou gone, it leaves the main cast very thin, and to be honest I dont want the show to be dominated by mirror stuff, thats ok one in a while like DS9 did but not in every arc or season

 

[Eric Cheung]

Watched this over the last few days and was more than pleasantly surprised.
I did set the bar very low much like I did for those awful abrams movies, but Discovery was far better than I expected. I think Isaacs performances added some gravitas, and loved the character.
I was afraid after the first couple of episodes that Burnham might be too much of a figure that would dominate the show much as Janeway did in voyager but it was ok.

I know in these days of PC you expect gay characters and thought Stamets was a good character, and the Ash Tyler thing was decent.

My main bones of contention was tilly, first off she claimed she was special needs, and was also far too heavy to be a cadet.
Before anyone jumps on this moaning I have a problem with special needs or heavy people, the issue is the context in that I could not see any flagship having an overweight cadet let alone one that claimed she was special needs.
The Klingons still bother me with their look, and the Georgiou character was awful.
That said I did enjoy it a lot and look forward to season 2.
Is it proper trek in the canon sense....jury is still out on that.

I'm glad you liked the show and went in with an open mind. Aside from Lorca, what were some of your favorite things?

The Tilly stuff was addressed well in other posts. She's well within the standards for military service.

Why would Janeway "dominating" VOY be a problem? She was the captain. And I don't see a problem with Burnham "dominating" DSC either, since they've always said this was going to be a show whose point of view character wouldn't be the captain.

I'm not sure why complimenting Stamets means qualifying it by placing it in the context of "these days of PC" in which one "expect[ S] gay characters."

How was Georgiou "awful?" In the brief time we saw her, she was a clever problem-solver, an optimistic scientific explorer, and was a mentor who put faith in Burnham, even after the mutiny. And Mirror Burnham was compelling, stuck in the ways her environment fashioned for her, but still undeniably drawn to Burnham as a protege.

 

[pst]

I know in these days of PC you expect gay characters and thought Stamets was a good character, and the Ash Tyler thing was decent.

My main bones of contention was tilly, first off she claimed she was special needs, and was also far too heavy to be a cadet.

unsure if it's just phrasing or if this is entirely offensive.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

How was Georgiou "awful?" In the brief time we saw her, she was a clever problem-solver, an optimistic scientific explorer, and was a mentor who put faith in Burnham, even after the mutiny. And Mirror Burnham was compelling, stuck in the ways her environment fashioned for her, but still undeniably drawn to Burnham as a protege

I wouldn’t go so far as to call Georgiou “awful”, but i didn’t find her that compelling a character. From the start it’s clear that she hasn’t done that great a job training Michael to become a captain (a fact that she later states, or even a good XO). This is based on the fact that Michael behaves like she just got the job of executive officer after an apparent 7 years doing it. Can we imagine Riker or Kira being so impulsive and wilfully insubordinate in s7 of their respective shows? Georgiou demonstrated a lack of ability to maintain discipline on her bridge which resulted in a mutiny... and her eventual demise. A shining example of starfleet’s complacency after a century of peace with the Klingons. And, as we know from
Kirk’s trial in TUC, a starfleet captain is responsible for the conduct of the crew under their command. Thus, Burnham’s mutiny is ultimately Georgiou’s fault as her CO.

As for Mirror Georgiou, she is bested by Lorca, defeated by him (again, by her own admission) and allows herself to be kidnapped and subsequently manipulated by Michael Burnham. And this was the leader of an evil racist xenophobic empire. I hope she doesn’t return for season 2, but sadly I think she will.

Much respect for Michelle Yeoh mind you - I’m sure she did a great job with the material and direction she was given (I’ve no frame of reference as I’ve not seen her in anything else), but the characters of Georgiou did nothing for me in DSC.

 

[gazomg]

I'm glad you liked the show and went in with an open mind. Aside from Lorca, what were some of your favorite things?

The Tilly stuff was addressed well in other posts. She's well within the standards for military service.

Why would Janeway "dominating" VOY be a problem? She was the captain. And I don't see a problem with Burnham "dominating" DSC either, since they've always said this was going to be a show whose point of view character wouldn't be the captain.

I'm not sure why complimenting Stamets means qualifying it by placing it in the context of "these days of PC" in which one "expect[ S] gay characters."

How was Georgiou "awful?" In the brief time we saw her, she was a clever problem-solver, an optimistic scientific explorer, and was a mentor who put faith in Burnham, even after the mutiny. And Mirror Burnham was compelling, stuck in the ways her environment fashioned for her, but still undeniably drawn to Burnham as a protege.

I felt janeway dominated voyager., unlike sisko in ds9 or picard in TNG
She came across as a self righteous bitch. I get she is captain, but the other captains did not appear to dominate their respective shows as much.

I like the stamets character, regardless of him being gay or not, my point was he was the token gay , I get that, but having his boyfriend serve with him was stretching it a bit.
Jury still out on burnham as I was never a lover of the whole dour vulcan thing , the vulcans were as dull as the bajorans on ds9.

I liked they had a andorian and tellerite on the show if only briefly, and there is scope for lots of other good stuff.
The Harry Mudd thing was enjoyable for what it was.

As I said before its far from perfect but better than i thought it would be, and am trying to view it as canon despite the obvious flaws.
It was 100 times better than those abrams movies.

 

[gazomg]

unsure if it's just phrasing or if this is entirely offensive.

wow, you dont know if it is offensive or not ?
Do you need to be told by others what is offensive, do you not have a mind of your own to decide, or are you one of those who waits for someone else to be offended so you can jump on a bandwagon.

Saying someone looks too heavy for a cadet who did military training is not offensive

 

[pst]

wow, you dont know if it is offensive or not ?
Do you need to be told by others what is offensive, do you not have a mind of your own to decide, or are you one of those who waits for someone else to be offended so you can jump on a bandwagon.

Saying someone looks too heavy for a cadet who did military training is not offensive

no i was genuinely unsure if your poorly worded post was intentionally or unintentionally offensive. by this response and the one above it, i see that you are deliberately attempting to be provocative. so, congrats.

 

[gazomg]

So what is offensive about calling someone who is heavy, too heavy to have passed Military training ?
I have done military training and its no walk in the park

If you find that offensive it says more about how precious you are.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So what is offensive about calling someone who is heavy, too heavy to have passed Military training ?

- It's not an accurate statement to say someone of Mary Wiseman's body type couldn't pass basic training and serve (click to enlarge):


- It's a silly thing for people to fixate on anyway since Starfleet is not the modern day military, nor is a TV show required to be 100% accurate.

- I don't recall people making this big a deal out of Kirk, Scotty, O'Brien or Riker's weight, where it was treated as endearing or humorous if commented on, but rarely if ever disqualifying.

- She would have most likely gone through basic training three years ago if she's a fourth year cadet, which she probably is given her field assignment, so she wouldn't be in exactly the same shape anymore (but not unhealthy).

- People who don't like the character tend to use it as a point to mock her (not saying you, just that it's a frequent issue with some people around here), which carries greater weight (no pun intended) in this age of search engines and social media where the actress can easily see what people are saying about her around the internet, which has to be daunting for Wiseman given the amount of focus on her weight and appearance online.

 

[gazomg]

riker , scotty and the others you mention were...wait for it...NOT cadets.
You can argue after years, they had a thing called experience something a cadet would not have.
The issue is a cadet being that size, look at her jogging in the show , and she waddles like a duck.

As for the "character" I neither like or dislike her, her character still far superior to that utter abysmal thing that was wesley crusher or geordi la farce, 2 cardboard cut outs who had as much charisma as a bucket of piss

 

[Locutus of Bored]

riker , scotty and the others you mention were...wait for it...NOT cadets.
You can argue after years, they had a thing called experience something a cadet would not have.
The issue is a cadet being that size, look at her jogging in the show , and she waddles like a duck.

You said (in the part I was responding to):
"... too heavy to have passed Military training?"

As I addressed, she's already passed the basic training portion of her cadet service, hence the reference to other characters who had passed that point as well. Granted, as long serving officers they have greater latitude on weight than a cadet, but the main point was that no one (speaking in general here, not referring to you personally) makes this big a deal about men's weight on the various shows, or just treats it as a joke instead of saying the person doesn't belong.

But for a specific example of a cadet with Tilly's body type in active service with an elite squad of Academy cadets, I refer you to cadet Dorian Collins of Red Squad serving aboard the USS Valiant in DS9-'Valiant'. She was like Tilly, a fourth year cadet serving in a field assignment:



I've never noticed Tilly waddling like a duck, or see what that has to do with her physical qualifications since she can clearly run just fine, but that leads back to my point about the weight issue mostly being raised as a point of mockery.

 

[gazomg]

I know this will be hard for you to grasp, but lets see if you can.

My initial post contained complaints and compliments, almost everyone ignored my compliments in the opening post and went looking for something to whinge about as whinging seems to be something people love to do on here.

It is my opinion she is too heavy for a cadet, now you can argue your opinion as long as you wish that she is not heavy for a cadet as that is your opinion to which you are entitled to. but it does not make it more valid than mine.
And posting other heavy cadets only serves to highlight even more my point of how ridiculous it is that heavier people would pass military training.

As for your ignorant comment about "mockery" I already addressed that in my opening post that I have no issue with heavy people so either you cannot read, chose not to read or have a persecution complex because you seem intent on trying to make this more than a cadet weight issue.