Impulse Power vs. Impulse Drive

[Jedi Marso]

We may have a solution to a couple of sticky issues in Trek, the largest being the idea that during the Earth-Romulan war, their ships were limited to impulse.

So, what exactly is impulse? Is it a form of power generation, or a form of propulsion, or both?

I contend that it's both. Further, I contend that limited warp speeds are attainable using impulse power generation. What we hear characters say on screen is merely a form of semantic usage, or even slang.

It makes sense from a story viewpoint. For example, if the Enterprise's main engines were burned out when she escaped from the energy barrier at the edge of the galaxy, she would still have been too far from Delta Vega to get there in any reasonable timeframe (much less a few days) at sublight speed. But if impulse drive could yield up a speed somewhere in the range of Warp 2 or so for a time, that gives them a velocity of 8c (on the old TOS scale) to work with, making the nearest stars and planets reachable.

By the same token, there is no realistic way an interstellar war was fought between Earth and the Romulans if the latter didn't possess some sort of warp capability. No way at all. The remark in Balance of Terror was that Romulan ships of that era were limited by 'power generation that was simple impulse.' Not that they didn't have FTL capability.

I know this isn't the first time the idea has come up. Discuss, debate, and argue the merits of the case for and against.

 

[TIN_MAN]

I too have often wondered about the distinction between impulse power and impulse engines/drive.

Here's a brief list of impulse power being used in TOS from my raw notes on the subject:

"Tomorrow is Yesterday"

SPOCK: We are too low in the atmosphere to retain this orbit, Captain. Engineering reports we have sufficient impulse power to achieve escape velocity.


(Here, impulse power is used in the sense of propulsion)

"WNMHGB"

Captain's log, Star date 1312.9. Ship's condition, heading back on impulse power only.

"Corbomite Maneuver"

KIRK: Now, Mister Sulu. Impulse power too. (combining with warp power)


(Here, impulse power is used in the sense of propulsion)


"The Squire of Gothos"

Captain's Log: ...However, by diverting impulse power to our sensors, we have made them operable, and we have detected one small area on the surface which seems relatively stable.


(Here, impulse power is used in the sense of energy to run other systems)


"The Doomsday Machine"

SPOCK: At our present rate of consumption, we'll exhaust our impulse power long before then.


(both impulse (engine?) fuel and low power/energy (packs/banks) is a problem!)


"The Immunity Syndrome"

SCOTT: Captain, we've only twenty six percent power reserves after entry.
KIRK: Do we have impulse power, Scotty?
SCOTT: I saved all I could, sir, but I don't know whether we have enough to get back out again.


(this suggests “reserve” power is stored in power banks/packs)


"Elaan of Troyius"

KIRK: They're trying to force a fight. Scotty, what's our energy status?
SCOTT: Ninety three percent of impulse power, sir.
...
SULU: Captain, number four shield just collapsed. Impulse power down to thirty one percent.


(this suggests power is stored in power banks/packs, and is used in the sense of energy to run other systems, shields in this case, specifically)


Here's an even briefer list of impulse engines being used in TOS:


"Arena"

SPOCK: How about bypassing the transformer banks? Feed the impulse engines directly.


(begs thequestion “feed the impulse engines with what? Electricity?” –suggesting some kind of “ion” impulse engine is being used here [which would not need fuel –at least not directly])


"The Apple"

KIRK: Then use your imagination. Tie every ounce of power the ship has into the impulse engines.


(indicates [electrical?] power from other systems can be used for impulse power)


The following uses both “power” and “engines” interchangebly
...
"The Apple"

SCOTT: Sir, I'm going to switch over everything but the life-support systems and boost the impulse power, but that's just about as dangerous.
...
SCOTT: We're ready here, sir. All available power has been channeled into the impulse engines.


“Mudd’s Women”

Auxiliary impulse engines (impulse engines are auxiliary to the main warp engines? Low fuel -as opposed to “power”- is a problem!)

The following uses “impulse drive” (and suggests sub-light velocity)

“KIRK: Mister Chekov, lay in a course for Troyius. Mister Sulu, impulse drive, speed factor point zero three seven.

SULU: Impulse drive, Captain?

KIRK: Yes, that's correct, Mister Sulu. Sublight factor point zero three seven.”

(note; this could indicate that “drive” signifies impulse engines without warp field augmentation, and/or that impulse power is different from impulse drive?)


It seems whenever percentages are used they are invariably used in reference to impulse power –not warp drive, so in “The Tholian Web” the buildup of power given in percentages is likely also a reference to impulse power (or rather warp power is “almost unlimited” but when it is not available power/energy must come from either the main power banks and/or the impulse engine [power] packs)

I think (emergency) impulse engine/power refers to some sort of electromagnetically powered accelerating mechanism –like a rail gun- which accelerates the impulse (rocket) exhaust (plasma) for more thrust and efficiency (hence why both low power and low fuel was a problem in TDM)? But this can also be used in reverse, that is, power/energy can be extracted from the plasma exaust system when the impulse engines are operating normally (when functioning warp field reduces ship’s mass), and thus exhaust plasma is generating an electric field which can energize coils and then diverted and/or stored? Thus, adding or subtracting “power” to/from the “impulse power” storage system (impulse packs?) refers to the amount of electrical power available either to the impulse engine system (The Apple), or from same (TSOG), at any given time or in any given situation.

Power to the system can therefore come from any of the following sources;

A) The main M/A-M reactor/power plant system. (with “amplified” dilithium crystals)

B) The Main power bank system (via “energized” dilithium crystals?)

C) The secondary impulse [power] pack system

D) The reserve/emergency power system (power cells/batteries)

Here’s a thought, perhaps dilithium crystals only need to be charged to power impulse and other high energy systems, but does not need to be charged to provide power for the warp drive itself, as in TNG? This would explain why in EOT” new raw crystals were immediately able to give warp power (and use of photon torpedoes); but in “TAF” they had to be “amplified” or “energized” –to keep their orbit from deteriorating (a function of Impulse power?).

 

[BK613]

Way back on 2011, I threw this together for a similar discussion, based on the way we use diesel as an adjective (as in diesel generator, diesel engine):

 

[oberth]

We may have a solution to a couple of sticky issues in Trek, the largest being the idea that during the Earth-Romulan war, their ships were limited to impulse.

So, what exactly is impulse? Is it a form of power generation, or a form of propulsion, or both?

I contend that it's both. Further, I contend that limited warp speeds are attainable using impulse power generation. What we hear characters say on screen is merely a form of semantic usage, or even slang.

It makes sense from a story viewpoint. For example, if the Enterprise's main engines were burned out when she escaped from the energy barrier at the edge of the galaxy, she would still have been too far from Delta Vega to get there in any reasonable timeframe (much less a few days) at sublight speed. But if impulse drive could yield up a speed somewhere in the range of Warp 2 or so for a time, that gives them a velocity of 8c (on the old TOS scale) to work with, making the nearest stars and planets reachable.

By the same token, there is no realistic way an interstellar war was fought between Earth and the Romulans if the latter didn't possess some sort of warp capability. No way at all. The remark in Balance of Terror was that Romulan ships of that era were limited by 'power generation that was simple impulse.' Not that they didn't have FTL capability.

I know this isn't the first time the idea has come up. Discuss, debate, and argue the merits of the case for and against.

never thought about that, but it makes sense - i can't fathom the romulans showing up from uranus (only -us planet we have) and bomb pearl harbor

... but then, a lot of trek stuff (especially tos) doesn't make any fucking sense

 

[oberth]

Way back on 2011, I threw this together for a similar discussion, based on the way we use diesel as an adjective (as in diesel generator, diesel engine):

got as link?

 

[BK613]

got as link?

??????

 

[oberth]

??????

i read 'for a similar discussion' as you posted it somewhere

 

[BK613]

i read 'for a similar discussion' as you posted it somewhere

I did but I'm not sure where. I just remembered I had the image in my Trek folder on my PC. My archived copy has a 2011 date on it. It's a good bet that the link to the image is dead though because in 2011 I was using Google's Picasa as my photo host (and that service is long gone).
The discussion itself most likely arose in one of the Fan Art threads by @Shaw or @blssdwlf because we seemed to discuss everything as we awaited new image content.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Way back on 2011, I threw this together for a similar discussion, based on the way we use diesel as an adjective (as in diesel generator, diesel engine):

Shit, I just spent half an hour making a block diagram that looks like kindergarten scratch next to this one. The only thing I'd add to yours is emergency power (batteries), which can power the impulse engine in an emergency, and is recharged by either M/AM or impulse power. I also note that the impulse engines are capable of attaining low warp speed when using impulse power, but not emergency power.

EDIT: On closer read, this one does account for slow FTL using Impulse power. I'd term 'auxiliary power' as reserve energy from either the M/AM power or impulse power stored in capacitors for unexpected or sudden augmented power needs. Emergency power is the 'last gasp' power, either batteries or some sort of shipstone or powercell equivalent. Emergency power would be allocated primarily to life support, because when it's gone, you have a dark, derelict ship.

 

[valkyrie013]

I've always thought that you have 2 power generation systems and a battery backup.
M/AM reactor, and the Fusion reactors.
the M/AM reactor can feed energy to the Impulse Drive/Engines, and Warp engines.
the Fusion reactors are a back up power generation system that "May" be called Impulse Power
The Fusion reactors can power the ship, impulse drive, and maybe the Warp drive in a very slow FTL
Battery, power the ship, maybe impulse drive for a short time.

I would think that the Fusion reactor would burn though deutierium like a fiend, and thats why Scotty would say they would burn though there reserves in a day.
For the M/AM reactor your combinings Atoms of AM and Matter, so you would have semi equal tanks of each so, not much Deuterium.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I've always thought that you have 2 power generation systems and a battery backup.
M/AM reactor, and the Fusion reactors.
the M/AM reactor can feed energy to the Impulse Drive/Engines, and Warp engines.
the Fusion reactors are a back up power generation system that "May" be called Impulse Power
The Fusion reactors can power the ship, impulse drive, and maybe the Warp drive in a very slow FTL
Battery, power the ship, maybe impulse drive for a short time.

I would think that the Fusion reactor would burn though deutierium like a fiend, and thats why Scotty would say they would burn though there reserves in a day.
For the M/AM reactor your combinings Atoms of AM and Matter, so you would have semi equal tanks of each so, not much Deuterium.

This jibes perfectly with the posts right above it.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Ever since TOS' "Balance of Terror," I just chalked it up that impulse power could indeed be used for FTL flight, but that warp drive gave more bang for the bucks. As a result, impulse was reserved mainly for sublight travel by the Federation and others, while some continued to rely on impulse for FTL for various reasons.

 

[Ithekro]

By the 24th century, one can assume that impulse engines can sustain a warp field to some degree for the likes of saucer separation at warp to all the likes of a Galaxy-class saucer section to escape an area.

Impulse power (or fusion reactors) should be able to power a warp drive, though not for as long nor as powerful as a matter-antimatter reactor.

Though for the Romulans, this may also tie into their use of quantum singularities as a power source. If 22nd and 23rd century Starfleet did not recognize that source of power on their sensors, then a Romulan warship would seem to only have "impulse power". If Romulan ships never seemed to warp faster than what Starfleet considered to be top end fusion powered warp travel, they wouldn't really have a need to question the idea of the Romulans using another source of power for their warships.

 

[Jedi Marso]

By the 24th century, one can assume that impulse engines can sustain a warp field to some degree for the likes of saucer separation at warp to all the likes of a Galaxy-class saucer section to escape an area.

Impulse power (or fusion reactors) should be able to power a warp drive, though not for as long nor as powerful as a matter-antimatter reactor.

Though for the Romulans, this may also tie into their use of quantum singularities as a power source. If 22nd and 23rd century Starfleet did not recognize that source of power on their sensors, then a Romulan warship would seem to only have "impulse power". If Romulan ships never seemed to warp faster than what Starfleet considered to be top end fusion powered warp travel, they wouldn't really have a need to question the idea of the Romulans using another source of power for their warships.

I always figured the quantum singularity power was in use by the time of Balance of Terror, helping Romulan ships achieve comparable warp speeds to Federation and Klingon vessels, and powering stuff like their plasma weapon.

 

[BK613]

Shit, I just spent half an hour making a block diagram that looks like kindergarten scratch next to this one.

Thanks for the compliment. I don't recall exactly for this image but I probably created the rounded rectangles in MS Paint before finishing up in Photoshop. Because, you know, doing shapes in Photoshop or The Gimp requires a post-doctorate degree to figure out.

The only thing I'd add to yours is emergency power (batteries), which can power the impulse engine in an emergency, and is recharged by either M/AM or impulse power. I also note that the impulse engines are capable of attaining low warp speed when using impulse power, but not emergency power.

EDIT: On closer read, this one does account for slow FTL using Impulse power. I'd term 'auxiliary power' as reserve energy from either the M/AM power or impulse power stored in capacitors for unexpected or sudden augmented power needs. Emergency power is the 'last gasp' power, either batteries or some sort of shipstone or powercell equivalent. Emergency power would be allocated primarily to life support, because when it's gone, you have a dark, derelict ship.

Yeah, at the time, I think I was just trying to show the parallel with the two words without creating confusion by covering unrelated cases. A detailed diagram would include great many other systems and subsystems that would be necessary for a ship to move.
----------
I do have in my head the notion that impulse means a certain type of fusion and that it didn't scale very well as ships got bigger.

 

[valkyrie013]

How fast at warp is a matter of how much power your producing
Starfleet Musium has a timeline, where both the Earth Fleet and Romulans used Fusion based power for Warp, Earth went to M/Am and had a huge boost in speed.
So if you need say 6 Jigawatts to cruise at warp 6, but the Fusion drive only makes 2 Jigawatts, then your topped out at warp 2.

 

[BK613]

^^And for impulse, you might need to continue to add reactors for higher power output which means the limiting factor might also be required fuel for those multiple reactors.

 

[BK613]

@oberth It turns out that I had that previous thread bookmarked:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/impulse-drive-what-do-we-know-non-canon-speculation.137203/
I was post 130 of that thread

 

[caveat_imperator]

How fast at warp is a matter of how much power your producing
Starfleet Musium has a timeline, where both the Earth Fleet and Romulans used Fusion based power for Warp, Earth went to M/Am and had a huge boost in speed.
So if you need say 6 Jigawatts to cruise at warp 6, but the Fusion drive only makes 2 Jigawatts, then your topped out at warp 2.

Don't forget that "time barrier" mentioned in the pilot. Maybe whatever that was couldn't be overcome until warp powered with M/AM was developed.

 

[mithril]

Don't forget that "time barrier" mentioned in the pilot. Maybe whatever that was couldn't be overcome until warp powered with M/AM was developed.

i've generally figured that the "time barrier" was a shorthand for "travel time limits". that the new ships like the Enterprise had warp drives able to hit such high warp numbers for long enough that they could cross in weeks what previous ships took months or years to cross.
sort of like how in ENT the warp 5 NX class could quickly reach places that the warp 1 and warp 2 'boomers' took years to visit, allowing the NX's to explore stuff well beyond the area known to earth at the time.

the ship that crashed on Talos IV was probably one of those boomer cargo ships, refit like the crew of the ECS fortunate talked about in ENT "fortunate son" (which would take them from warp 1.8 to warp 3. going by the TOS formula, which ENT followed most of the time, that would be an increase from 5.82c to 27c.).

but warp 3 would pale in comparison to the Enterprise, able to do warp 8 for long periods of time (512 c.) a trip that took a warp 3 ship months could be done in by the enterprise in mere days.