Harsh realities of rewatching Star Trek Voyager

[urrutiap]

Here is the link to the article at screenrant. its written by Dana Hanson. and Im typing down the whole list here in case and I know some of you people are too lazy to even go to the website to read the article

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-voyager-rewatch-harsh-realities/

10. Chakotay's Native American depiction being problematic
-i disagree about that. i think the show dwelled on some stuff about his heritage just fine

9. Kes and Neelix relationship doesnt work.
-actually yes it did work even though at the start, Neelix was a bit overprotective and jealous

8. the show not knowing what to do with Kes

7. Tom Paris not being likable
-says who? Just Dana. Tom Paris was fun to see on screen especially his holodeck adventures that spoofed Flash Gordon

6. Threshold is Hilariously terrible

5. Tuvix and Janeway's decision

4. the sexualization of Seven of Nine
-no duh, Dana. everyone's known about it for a long long time before you had to bring it up recently. I cant wait til she rags on T Pol for the next Harsh Realities of watching Enterprise.

matter of fact, any and every show whether sci fi, comedies or dramas there will always be that one "hottie" female cast member for any show wearing tight clothes or whatever. Deal with it, Dana and any other idiot screenrant writer

3. Seven and Chakotay's relationship being a bad idea
-would Dana rather Chakotay go after Janeway or still think about whatsherface that was a Kazon spy?

2. Harry Kim's "eternal" Ensign status

1. Voyager's series finale left too many unanswered questions

 

[herofhyrule]

Chakotay's Native American background was literally entirely made up by a fraud who pretended to be Native American yet actually wasn't. What's worse is that he had already been exposed as a fraud years before Voyager began, and yet was hired anyway.
Also, fans widely agree that the sexualisation of Deanna, Seven, and T'Pol was unacceptable. Believe it or nor, objectification is not a prerequisite to making a successful TV series.

 

[Praetorian]

"Beltran himself has no Native ancestry, which is problematic by itself"

Considering Beltran's mexican origins, this is most certanly not true. The average mexican is around half native american, genetically speaking.

And, honestly, Beltran looks like someone who has such ancestry.

Although, I do agree that the portrayal was problematic, due to its stereotypical and nondescript nature.

As Beltran said, the character should have been an Mayan.

 

[somebuddyX]

Again, people here have made the same comments over the years. The only one I think most everyone would disagree with is that Tom was initially unlikable, or even that Tom initially being unlikable was a bad thing. He had some rough edges and they sanded them down after a while. I just can't see him being polarising when he's in the same show as Chakotay and Neelix.

 

[Dee1891]

Here is the link to the article at screenrant. its written by Dana Hanson. and Im typing down the whole list here in case and I know some of you people are too lazy to even go to the website to read the article

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-voyager-rewatch-harsh-realities/

10. Chakotay's Native American depiction being problematic
-i disagree about that. i think the show dwelled on some stuff about his heritage just fine

9. Kes and Neelix relationship doesnt work.
-actually yes it did work even though at the start, Neelix was a bit overprotective and jealous

8. the show not knowing what to do with Kes

7. Tom Paris not being likable
-says who? Just Dana. Tom Paris was fun to see on screen especially his holodeck adventures that spoofed Flash Gordon

6. Threshold is Hilariously terrible

5. Tuvix and Janeway's decision

4. the sexualization of Seven of Nine
-no duh, Dana. everyone's known about it for a long long time before you had to bring it up recently. I cant wait til she rags on T Pol for the next Harsh Realities of watching Enterprise.

matter of fact, any and every show whether sci fi, comedies or dramas there will always be that one "hottie" female cast member for any show wearing tight clothes or whatever. Deal with it, Dana and any other idiot screenrant writer

3. Seven and Chakotay's relationship being a bad idea
-would Dana rather Chakotay go after Janeway or still think about whatsherface that was a Kazon spy?

2. Harry Kim's "eternal" Ensign status

1. Voyager's series finale left too many unanswered questions

As much as I love "Voyager", I have my own issues with the show. Aside from the portrayal of Chakotay's Native American ancestry during the first two seasons, these are not my issues. Actually, I believe my main issues for "Voyager" are the same as my main issues for "Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine".

 

[suarezguy]

Don't see how Chakotay and his practices, though inaccurate (though being 300+ years into the future), are offensive stereotypes.

I liked Paris watching as a kid (until even then I got a bit tired of him by season 6 or 7), don't find him particularly likeable now but also not unlikeable, though he was a bit brash I don't think he was portrayed as real self-absorbed or a relentless womanizer after season 1.

Kim not getting promoted was pretty unfair but not a huge aspect or flaw.

The finale has been getting criticized so much for so long, I really don't see why it's bad to give some hints and suggestions but leave much of what happened to the crew after to the imagination and to previous implications.

 

[Dee1891]

Kim not getting promoted was pretty unfair but not a huge aspect or flaw.

I do get tired of this complaint, considering Tuvok was the only character who had received a genuine promotion. No one else did and I regard Paris' "promotion" in late Season Six as nothing more than regaining his old rank.

When did it become popular to bash Tom Paris? Was he supposed to be some near ideal Starfleet officer or something?

 

[The Wormhole]

fans widely agree that the sexualisation of Deanna, Seven, and T'Pol was unacceptable.

And it should be noted that all three of them looked much better wearing a Starfleet uniform than they ever did wearing those silly catsuits that were their normal wardrobe. And in Seven's case, she also looked a lot better wearing actual clothes throughout Picard.

 

[Dee1891]

And it should be noted that all three of them looked much better wearing a Starfleet uniform than they ever did wearing those silly catsuits that were their normal wardrobe. And in Seven's case, she also looked a lot better wearing actual clothes throughout Picard.

You forgot Kira Nerys, who had went from wearing a Bajoran uniform to a . . . say it with me people . . . "a catsuit". Also, there was Leeta, a recurring character from "Deep Space Nine", whose cleavage was on display a lot. And no one has ever been able to explain away the miniskirts from the TOS era.

 

[fireproof78]

Don't see how Chakotay and his practices, though inaccurate (though being 300+ years into the future), are offensive stereotypes.

See "wise Native American" trope for why it is offensive, as well as the fact that the information used to create his character was the product of a conman.

I really don't see why it's bad to give some hints and suggestions but leave much of what happened to the crew after to the imagination and to previous implications.

It's unsatisfying. That's not an ending; that's just a stopping of the story. The only perceived sense of ending we have is from Admiral Janeway's future which seemed like a lot of people were happy, save for Janeway herself with Chakotay's death and Tuvok's madness.

"Beltran himself has no Native ancestry, which is problematic by itself"

Considering Beltran's mexican origins, this is most certanly not true. The average mexican is around half native american, genetically speaking.

And, honestly, Beltran looks like someone who has such ancestry.

Although, I do agree that the portrayal was problematic, due to its stereotypical and nondescript nature.

As Beltran said, the character should have been an Mayan.

Agreed and recent genetic studies are showing that there is more and more to Native connections than originally thought, as well as some ideas around Asiatic migration that impacted Native population growth.

 

[Oddish]

10. I think the chief problem was that there is a lot of mysticism and and supernatural in Chakotay's belief system, concepts that Trek has generally shied away from. For instance, TNG reveals that a ghost is really just an anaphasic lifeform that wants to get in your pants.
9. No romance involving Kes would have really worked. For us, nine years old is still in elementary school. For the Ocampa, it's out the "out" door for good.
8. Kind of goes from "9". In "Before and After", they took us through what could have been... but going there at normal speed would have been awkward.
7. I didn't mind Tom. His pilot's brashness was tempered by his sensitivity and willingness to share his feelings.
6. My preferred method of addressing "Threshold" was to say it was all a dream, brought on when Tom made the ill-advised decision to eat a second helping of Neelix's leola root enchiladas. Alas, "Prodigy" declared that yes, it actually happened.
5. One of my long-buried stories features my attempt to see how things might have different if Janeway had chosen differently... would she regret her choice? Would Tuvix feel guilty at being allowed to live at the expense of two others? It wasn't my best work, but it helped me appreciate that it really was a thorny issue with no good solution.
4. It's a testament to Jeri Ryan that Seven was the character she was, despite those outfits. As I've often said, the decision to dress her thus was one giant step backward, both for women and for Trek.
3. No ship that was sprung on us unexpectedly and at the end would have prospered. C/7 had the added disadvantage of there being more suitable choices for both characters.
2. Sorry @Dee1891 ... can't agree. Every single ensign in every previous Trek went on to better things: Chekov, Ogawa, Ro Laren, Ezri Dax, Nog, and YES, Paris walked onto the bridge as an ensign and left it at shift's end a lieutenant; that's a promotion. Even Wesley got bumped from acting ensign to full ensign, complete with snazzy red uniform. There is absolutely no rationale for Harry's 7-year ensignhood that can't be ripped to shreds in seconds*. And given the malevolent intent behind the decision to keep Harry at ensign, I consider it the worst thing about the show. Yes, worse than the salamanders.
1. Voyager's series finale told us what didn't happen to the crew. Except for Janeway, we never found out what did happen until many years later. For some, we still haven't.

11. EDIT. The Big Red Reset Button.**
Most Trek of the time was episodic, but this particular show doubled down on it. So many characters had momentous things happen, or the ship would get the crap kicked out of it, but the life-altering event would be forgotten and the ship would be pristine a week later.

*And if you want to try presenting one, there are active topics on the subject. I'll be waiting.

**No, it's not in that article. But given that that was one of VOY's most pervasive and harmful flaws, it should've been!

 

[The Wormhole]

You forgot Kira Nerys, who had went from wearing a Bajoran uniform to a . . . say it with me people . . . "a catsuit".

Fun fact: Nana Visitor actually found the form-fitting uniform she began wearing in the fourth season to be a lot more comfortable than the uniform she wore during the first three seasons.

Also, there was Leeta, a recurring character from "Deep Space Nine", whose cleavage was on display a lot.

Leeta's a civilian. Having her wear revealing clothes makes more sense than starship officers.

And no one has ever been able to explain away the miniskirts from the TOS era.

It was the 1960s.

 

[Farscape One]

You forgot Kira Nerys, who had went from wearing a Bajoran uniform to a . . . say it with me people . . . "a catsuit". Also, there was Leeta, a recurring character from "Deep Space Nine", whose cleavage was on display a lot. And no one has ever been able to explain away the miniskirts from the TOS era.

According Nana Visitor herself, the season 4 onward uniform she wore was actually more comfortable.

Regarding Leeta, she was a Dabo girl. The outfit actually made sense for her vocation, particularly in a bar run by a Ferengi.

Regarding the TOS miniskirts, it was a product of its time.

 

[Oddish]

Regarding Leeta, she was a Dabo girl. The outfit actually made sense for her vocation, particularly in in a bar run by a Ferengi.

Right. In the right context, it's fine for a character to wear a sexy outfit. Dax's swimsuit, for instance.

 

[Phaser Two]

Given that Screenrant seems to be running a series on these for the franchise right now - the one for TOS was terrible - I'm not surprised by these cold-as-ice takes. None of them resonate with me much except the misuse of Kes and the lack of wrapup in "Endgame" - but the writers felt they were getting a silver screen movie or at least a TV movie in a couple of years to take care of that; they didn't anticipate the franchise contracting and heading largely into the freezer for ten years. The Chakotay stuff doesn't really scan as particularly bad, and I know a couple of Native American Voyager fans whom it doesn't bother at all, although they might of course be the exception and I mean no disrespect to anyone genuinely offended.

Tom Paris was unlikable? Okay. Have to do a hard disagree there. He came off as the dude you really want to hang out with to me and had a terrific seven-year character arc, from cad to dad. So did Harry, just in a slightly different way.

They're right about the sexualization of Seven but they get no real points from me for mentioning it because Jeri Ryan utterly surmounted it. And she did look fantastic in the sciences uniform in "Relativity" and "Human Error."

"Tuvix" is an outstanding episode. "Threshold" isn't even bad, let alone horrible, until the last five minutes. Chakotay had chemistry with everybody and it was an interesting twist at the end of the series. And Harry's lack of a promotion was the wrong decision by Janeway but she did give him more to do, he did possibly set himself back in "The Disease" among other eps, and his situation was quite obviously due to the unique circumstances of the ship being lost in the DQ. I am glad they mentioned it, though, because Harry - and Garrett, even more so now that he openly recognizes a few of the self-styled mistakes he made when he was younger - are really, really nice guys.

 

[Dee1891]

I enjoyed "Endgame" very much and was glad that it spared me the excruciating style of DS9's very last episode ("Babylon 5" was guilty of this as well in its penultimate episode). I didn't need to see what happened to them after they had reached the Alpha Quadrant and Earth. I just wanted to see them reach their final destination.

 

[Oddish]

Harry's lack of a promotion was the wrong decision by Janeway but she did give him more to do, he did possibly set himself back in "The Disease" among other eps, and his situation was quite obviously due to the unique circumstances of the ship being lost in the DQ.

I could accept either of those points had Janeway's own actions not refuted them. Because she promoted Tuvok, there was obviously no moratorium on field promotions. And, consider that she dropped Tom to ensign and threw him in the brig, but restored his prior rank due to his year and a half of exemplary service. Harry's offense was less serious, hecwas under alien influence, and he had given six years of exemplary service. If Tom rated a promotion to lieutenant, so did he.

 

[at Quark's]

Tom Paris was unlikable? Okay. Have to do a hard disagree there. He came off as the dude you really want to hang out with to me and had a terrific seven-year character arc, from cad to dad. So did Harry, just in a slightly different way.

To be fair, they say he's initially unlikable. And to be fair, I wouldn't trust Caretaker Tom too much myself. While he may have been fun to hang out from the start, his better qualities (dependable crew member, etc) took some time to show up. I would disagree with them, to the extent that they say it took several years - I think it took less time than that.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding Tom...

I think it was a good idea to make him initially not fully likeable. This gave the writers and the audience the chance to see the redemption arc of his character... as someone else succinctly put it, 'from cad to dad'. Redemption arcs are good, but you also need a starting point for a redemption arc to even occur. If someone is already mostly there, it's not much of a journey. But if you have the pieces there but still many steps to go before they really are redeemed, the journey and redemption is more satisfying... and convincing.

 

[Oddish]

VOY needed more character arcs like Tom's.
Admittedly, the EMH and Seven had decent ones.
Janeway's growth, what there was of it, pales in comparison to Sisko's.
B'Elanna's potential growth was huge... but was halfway completed in one episode ("Parallax").
Tuvok had less potential for growth, but would have been a great "static" character, a measuring stick for the others.
Neelix just had a major aspect of his character largely discarded.
And Harry and Kes, the two characters with the most potential for growth because they were so early in their life/career journey, showed arguably the least.