Eugenics war (world war 3)

[hux]

I was under the impression that they used to be regarded as the same thing but then were later adapted into separate events. Have the dates for the Eugenics wars been revised or are they still considered to have occurred in the 1990's. If so, then the Trek time line exists parallel to ours (slightly depressing)

So to recap. The Eugenics wars happen (1990's) then world war three happens in the 2020's to the 2050's before first contact in 2063

Are these dates all still accepted or have they been changed (can they be changed)

 

[Greg Cox]

As far as the original timeline goes, the Eugenics Wars still took place in the 1990s. I rationalize that none of us noticed them because we were all watching the O.J. Simpson trial at the time.

But, seriously,Bill Clinton really doesn't get enough credit for the way he handled the Eugenics Wars.

And don't forget, we're less than ten years away from the Bell Riots in San Francisco!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Eugenics Wars were not changed - they were and still are 1992-96.

World War III was retconned as happening in 2053. Not the same war.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As of Star Trek Into Darkness, McCoy says that the Botany Bay cryotube is "300 years old" in 2259. So it's fair to say they've embraced Trek's world as an AU to ours.

 

[The Wormhole]

Enterprise and STID both stuck to the Eugenics Wars as being in the 20th century despite being 21st century productions themselves. So I'd say there's no intent to change that date at all. Likewise, Enterprise parroted the end of WWIII being in the 2050s that was established in FC, that ain't changing either.

Could these dates be changed in a future production? The possibility is there, I suppose, but it is increasingly slim. Especially since the alternate timeline is sticking to the EW date established in the 1960s, despite the fact they could very well have gotten away with changing it.

 

[Greg Cox]

Star Trek history, as laid down in the sixties, is inevitably going to run afoul of real history, but that's not going to hurt the show any.

I mean, people are still reading "1984" and "2001," right?

 

[Hatshepsut]

...[T]he Eugenics Wars still took place in the 1990s. I rationalize that none of us noticed them because we were all watching the O.J. Simpson trial at the time. But, seriously, Bill Clinton really doesn't get enough credit for the way he handled the Eugenics Wars...

...because he "did not have sexual relations with that woman"?

 

[Albertese]

There was one reference to the Eugenic Wars in Deep Space Nine which told us it was "200 years ago" from that late date, which would put it in the 21st Century. But as has been mentioned above, this is the outlyer. They are mostly pretty consistent about keeping it in the 90s.

The book Federation: The First 150 Years has an interesting aside about this.

Federation: The first 150 Years Page 10.

Indeed the legacy of the Eugenics Wars is so severe and horrific, shortly after it became public knowledge that time travel was possible, many people thought it would be worth gong back in time and changing this chapter in Human history. In 2293, one terrorist group of Humans took action: calling itself "1992," they stole the U.S.S. Yorktown from the Starfleet museum and attempted to return to the past and erase these events from Earth's history. They disappeared without a trace along with their ship. Because we believe we are living in an unchanged history, if they were successful it was only in creating an alternate timeline.

I thought that was kind of fun, telling us that the divergence from our own timeline and Star Trek's is due to a group of people who changed history in the early 90s.

YMMV, of course.

--Alex

 

[hux]

Star Trek history, as laid down in the sixties, is inevitably going to run afoul of real history, but that's not going to hurt the show any.

I mean, people are still reading "1984" and "2001," right?

Yeah but if other Trekkers are as nerdy as me, there's probably a part of them that kinda likes the idea that it could still be our future. Once you accept that real history has contradicted the one predicted in Trek, there is a definite sense of.....aww

There was one reference to the Eugenic Wars in Deep Space Nine which told us it was "200 years ago" from that late date, which would put it in the 21st Century. But as has been mentioned above, this is the outlyer. They are mostly pretty consistent about keeping it in the 90s.

The book Federation: The First 150 Years has an interesting aside about this.

Federation: The first 150 Years Page 10.

Indeed the legacy of the Eugenics Wars is so severe and horrific, shortly after it became public knowledge that time travel was possible, many people thought it would be worth gong back in time and changing this chapter in Human history. In 2293, one terrorist group of Humans took action: calling itself "1992," they stole the U.S.S. Yorktown from the Starfleet museum and attempted to return to the past and erase these events from Earth's history. They disappeared without a trace along with their ship. Because we believe we are living in an unchanged history, if they were successful it was only in creating an alternate timeline.

I thought that was kind of fun, telling us that the divergence from our own timeline and Star Trek's is due to a group of people who changed history in the early 90s.

YMMV, of course.

--Alex

I love that idea

 

[Iamnotspock]

There was one reference to the Eugenic Wars in Deep Space Nine which told us it was "200 years ago" from that late date, which would put it in the 21st Century.

It would actually put it in the 22nd Century. Ronald D. Moore has admitted that he was thinking of Khan's "On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince..." when he wrote the line, which was inconsistent to begin with (it was closer to 300 years earlier), and then forgot to factor in the extra century between TWOK and DS9.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There was one reference to the Eugenic Wars in Deep Space Nine which told us it was "200 years ago" from that late date, which would put it in the 21st Century.

It would actually put it in the 22nd Century. Ronald D. Moore has admitted that he was thinking of Khan's "On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince..." when he wrote the line, which was inconsistent to begin with (it was closer to 300 years earlier), and then forgot to factor in the extra century between TWOK and DS9.

But it is consistent with Kirk telling Khan two centuries had passed while he was in suspended animation in "Space Seed". TOS was inconsistent about when it took place.

KHAN: How long?
KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate.

 

[T'Girl]

then world war three happens in the 2020's to the 2050's before first contact in 2063

First Contact put forward that the war ended approximately ten years prior to April of 2063, there's no canon indication as to when the war started or how long it lasted.

 

[Mytran]

The "two centuries" ref in SS is easy enough to rationalise, since it was the answer to Khan's question of how long he had been sleeping. If the Botany Bay had been travelling a decent percentage of light speed then (relatively speaking) only 200 could have passed on board ship.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The "two centuries" ref in SS is easy enough to rationalise, since it was the answer to Khan's question of how long he had been sleeping. If the Botany Bay had been travelling a decent percentage of light speed then (relatively speaking) only 200 could have passed on board ship.

Why would Kirk use that?

 

[Shawnster]

2 centuries is easy to rationalize because Kirk even said it was an "estimate."

Estimates get adjusted as more data becomes available.

 

[Nerys Myk]

2 centuries is easy to rationalize because Kirk even said it was an "estimate."

Estimates get adjusted as more data becomes available.

Khan and the ship are established as from the 20th Century. What would need adjusting?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This is a minority opinion, but I still choose to believe that WW3 and the Eugenics Wars were the same thing. I prefer to think that "Space Seed" and Spock got it right the first time.

 

[Ithekro]

2 centuries is easy to rationalize because Kirk even said it was an "estimate."

Estimates get adjusted as more data becomes available.

Khan and the ship are established as from the 20th Century. What would need adjusting?

Didn't they establish that after Khan woke up? Spock did note the Eugenics Wars as being 1990s after they identifed Khan.

Couldn't the later war of around 2250 have been the Fourth World War? But that the general naming practise calls it the Third because the Eugenics War became the popular term and they started to forget it was the Third War.

 

[Shawnster]

2 centuries is easy to rationalize because Kirk even said it was an "estimate."

Estimates get adjusted as more data becomes available.

Khan and the ship are established as from the 20th Century. What would need adjusting?

Khan left in 1996. According to the chronology book, and Memory Alpha, the Enterprise rescued him in 2267. That's 271 years. Khan was exiled on Ceti Alpha V for 18 years. That brings us to Khan being a "prince" 288 years prior to Star Trek II.

If I was going to estimate, I'd estimate Khan was from 300 years ago, instead of 200.

 

[Nerys Myk]

2 centuries is easy to rationalize because Kirk even said it was an "estimate."

Estimates get adjusted as more data becomes available.

Khan and the ship are established as from the 20th Century. What would need adjusting?

Didn't they establish that after Khan woke up? Spock did note the Eugenics Wars as being 1990s after they identifed Khan.
.

It's the first thing Kirk says to Khan,when he revives on the Botany Bay in response Khan asking "How long?".

Prior to that the ship is identified as a DY-100.

KIRK: An old Earth vessel, similar to the DY=500 class.
SPOCK: Much older. DY-100 class, to be exact. Captain, the last such vessel was built centuries ago, back in the 1990s.
KIRK: Then it's a derelict, its signal left on automatic.

Next we have this

KIRK: I'm not. Oh, I'll need somebody familiar with the late 20th-Century Earth. Here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change. What's her name? McIvers?
SPOCK: Lieutenant McGivers.

And then this

SCOTT: Definitely Earth-type mechanism, sir. Twentieth century vessel. Old type atomic power. Bulky, solid. I think they used to call them transistor units. I'd love to tear this baby apart.
MARLA: Captain, it's a sleeper ship.
KIRK: Suspended animation.
MARLA: I've seen old photographs of this. Necessary because of the time involved in space travel until about the year 2018. It took years just to travel from one planet to another.

And the conversation mentioned above

KHAN: How long?
KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate.