In terms of in-universe narrative, yes that is the case.
In terms of what the episode as a construction of 90's society is presenting, it was just another case of representing anything other than heterosexuality as alien, and wrong.
Earth as Naked Paradise
- Thread starter PicardSpeedo
- Start date
In terms of what the episode as a construction of 90's society is presenting, it was just another case of representing anything other than heterosexuality as alien, and wrong.
YesAgreed, but I think RAMA meant they were acceptable by the standards of social mores - not the standards of FASHION.
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!!!!!
Actually, Jadzia and Lenara kissing still caused an uproar and ended up being edited out of the episode in a few states. Intendant Kira and Ezri kissing was kept in, because that's the evil and wrong Mirror Universe.
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me...
Heh, I'm surprised to click over here and find it's a "Rejoined" discussion, I was just over in the "Diversity is key" thread talking about how I think that episode is remarkable for how perfectly it threads the needle -- for me, it unfolds it's pro-gay message wonderfully, with such a powerful and moving story, while remaining itself completely uninfected by accidental homophobia (as "The Outcast" was -- as so many 90's gay episodes were). I don't read Lenara's reaction to the kiss as shame at all. It's torment -- she can't square who she loves with who her society tells her she's allowed to love. I might actually think it's Trek's most well-tuned alien allegory, I'm trying to think of one I like more than this...
But anyway, the reason I popped over here was to say, I feel like Seven was the realization of the weird naked paradise idea -- here we have a woman who has evolved beyond any awareness or concern about the fact that she's essentially naked at all times (as always with Seven, I think to myself: thank God they found Jeri Ryan for that part, a lesser actress in that getup would have been such a disaster)
But anyway, the reason I popped over here was to say, I feel like Seven was the realization of the weird naked paradise idea -- here we have a woman who has evolved beyond any awareness or concern about the fact that she's essentially naked at all times (as always with Seven, I think to myself: thank God they found Jeri Ryan for that part, a lesser actress in that getup would have been such a disaster)
It's just a shame they couldn't recycle the Kirk-in-metal thong idea from The God Thing screenplay. Following the struggles of a recurring character as he attempts to carry out his duties clad only in a metal thong that causes him uncomfortable erections would be a deep exploration of this character angle that would resonate with male viewers.
It was also made high clear that the two Trill were married at one time and that at that time one of them was male.
It would have been a more powerful statement (more powerful than the girl-on-girl kiss) if the two former married hosts were said to have been the same gender, even more so if both had been male at that time.
It would have been a more powerful statement (more powerful than the girl-on-girl kiss) if the two former married hosts were said to have been the same gender, even more so if both had been male at that time.
Last edited:
There is lots and lots of television out there that contains absolutely no Star Trekieness.
I's a great idea to have at least one show that is just chock full (too over flowing) with Star Trekieness. If you want no Trekieness, just don't watch any Star Trek.
Simply.
I's a great idea to have at least one show that is just chock full (too over flowing) with Star Trekieness. If you want no Trekieness, just don't watch any Star Trek.
Simply.
Simply? LOL. I like my Star Trek, been a fan since the late 60s when I watched it on my parents black and white TV. The only way I could see it in color was at a neighbors house. Like most all Trek fans, I've seen all the series and all the movies, and also like most Trek fans, I have my own version of what good Star Trek is. And it doesn't include infinite discussions of morality or the forehead-of-the-week alien.
It doesn't matter what the new show is about, who's in it, the writers, or anything else. This show will be exactly like the rest of the Trek spin offs, in that various Trek fans will think it's the greatest thing ever and others will grieve over what they think is the end of all Star Trek because of the new show. I think most of us realize it'll be somewhere in-between those two extremes. If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I'd take the odds on this show being tons much better than the other spin offs.
The premier night and the explosion in this forum on that night is, for me, reminiscent of NFL draft nights on my Houston Texans BBS. It'll be almost as good in the forums as it is watching the game (show) itself.
If you're curious, and you're probably not, my idea of a perfect Star Trek show would simply be another Constitution class starship, with an all human crew, doing episodic television with a few arcs thrown in for flavoring, just telling us different stories every week. Obviously I'm not getting my wish.
I can live without nudist Earth.
Or like how Hoshi was recruited onto Enterprise while teaching a language class in Brazil, maybe the love instructor can be recruited to Discovery in the middle of his outdoor class in the park.
Then every week, James the Love Instructor can offer lovemaking alternatives to the current dilemma in the briefing room.
The love instructor should be female, of course.
But James the Love Instructor fits in with Discovery's prequel status, as that's who James Kirk was named after (per Roddenberry's TMP novelization).
GR was tripping...literally, right?
I realize this is a seriously old reply to this thread, but somehow, I missed it. While he was very likely tripping, he did actually pitch this to the network in his original treatment of Star Trek. Gene had some really weird ideas about what the future would be like. Fortunately, the studio filtered a lot of the more...exotic...ideas out.
I don't know, but I think humans in Star Trek is too homogeneous. When we see plurality, it's only about skin color and LGBT matters. But we forget that human's thought is so diverse. More diverse than skin colors and about LGBT is right or wrong. There are a lot of things about humans. Like Political Ideology Belief, Greed of Wealth and Power, Religion, tradition, etc. That make Races ( or maybe Countries ) to be unique. That's why the Earth where we live is actually more complex than the whole Alpha Quadrant in Star Trek Universe.
So how can you make the whole planet to become nudist and call it Paradise? It's not a Paradise! Not everyone want to be naked in front of other people. Everyone have their own value in manner and tradition. You can't see Chinese, Japanese, and Korean to be their own races just because of their yellow skin color. But because of their own value, belief system, and tradition. It's also true to African, Arab, and others. It's not about their skin color or accent. But also their tradition, value, and belief system.
To make human so homogeneous to an extend that the Earth become a Nudist Paradise is the same as you are not respecting diversity / plurality; which is the core of Star Trek premise. It just the same that you make Earth as the home of brainwashed people. Not as a better future that I expected.
So how can you make the whole planet to become nudist and call it Paradise? It's not a Paradise! Not everyone want to be naked in front of other people. Everyone have their own value in manner and tradition. You can't see Chinese, Japanese, and Korean to be their own races just because of their yellow skin color. But because of their own value, belief system, and tradition. It's also true to African, Arab, and others. It's not about their skin color or accent. But also their tradition, value, and belief system.
To make human so homogeneous to an extend that the Earth become a Nudist Paradise is the same as you are not respecting diversity / plurality; which is the core of Star Trek premise. It just the same that you make Earth as the home of brainwashed people. Not as a better future that I expected.
Then again, if nudism were to become a thing in the brave new world of Trek, it would be easy to see how it would subsequently become a global norm, with clothed people being shunned to submission. That's just how humans behave, in order to maintain that survival feature called social coherence.
My angle on this is purely in-universe and continuity-minded. Our human and Klingon TNG heroes have a very strong nudity taboo, explicated whenever Betazoid weddings get a mention. They are also very open about their taboo, discussing it as if it were the social norm and the Betazoid way the aberration. ENT in turn isn't distanced from 20th century thinking in basically anything yet. So the time for the Naked Paradise would have to be in the TOS century if ever.
Unlike the spinoffs, TOS gives us no scenes on contemporary Earth. TOS movies and DSC do, though, banishing Naked Paradise to the first half of the century. Which is where it can safely reside until otherwise proven - nudity taboos aren't so pronounced in the TOS/DSC context, and OTOH Earth has gone through a major cultural upheaval when joining the Federation...
Timo Saloniemi
My angle on this is purely in-universe and continuity-minded. Our human and Klingon TNG heroes have a very strong nudity taboo, explicated whenever Betazoid weddings get a mention. They are also very open about their taboo, discussing it as if it were the social norm and the Betazoid way the aberration. ENT in turn isn't distanced from 20th century thinking in basically anything yet. So the time for the Naked Paradise would have to be in the TOS century if ever.
Unlike the spinoffs, TOS gives us no scenes on contemporary Earth. TOS movies and DSC do, though, banishing Naked Paradise to the first half of the century. Which is where it can safely reside until otherwise proven - nudity taboos aren't so pronounced in the TOS/DSC context, and OTOH Earth has gone through a major cultural upheaval when joining the Federation...
Timo Saloniemi