Do you support Arizona?

[doubleohfive]

^
Precisely my issue with this law. One wonders if illegal immigrants from places like England, France, Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Russia, or any other predominantly white country will be subject to the same "reasonable suspicion" in Arizona.

This law is just another free-for-all for the government to target anyone who's not white. Fuck that noise.

Which is entirely separate to the issue that there is already a system in place to monitor the illegals in Arizona through the companies and corporations' hiring offices and human resources. Background checks and verification of citizenry are supposed to be required at most of these jobs yet there has been little to no follow-through by said companies, and the Arizona government has done nothing --absolute DICK-- to enforce these protocols or hold the companies responsible and accountable for their own lack of follow-up on this issue. Instead, the Arizona law is a blanket solution, wiping away any responsibility from the companies and again, giving law enforcement the free pass to go after anyone who isn't white.

It bears repeating. What constitutes 'reasonable suspicion' ? How do you measure it? By whose judgment is it determined in a universally agreed upon and equitable way?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

And for all the complaints about the Federal Government not acting...yet, Arizona has asked the Feds for help in coming up with the information and standards for the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board.

And just because something is "most likely" to occur during a certain situation doesn't mean that's the only time it'll ever occur. This law opens things up for massive misuse and abuse.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Based on the summary, I don't see any problems with the law. If the law-enforcement agencies in Arizona are profiling, that's not an issue with any particular legislation.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

what a person "looks like" does not factor into the equation.

Bullpucky. If I, a very obvious white person, gets pulled over by a law-enforcement officer in Arizona because of erratic driving or whatnot, I can almost guarantee I'm not going to be asked to "show my papers"

What about a group of people standing in front of, say, a Home Depot?

 

[Cornholio]

I somehow doubt a bunch of white college kids crammed into a mini van are going to be asked to provide proof of their immigration station.

no one, white, hispanic, or any other ethnicity, would be asked to provide proof of their immigration status, unless they could not provide one of the following documents:

Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.

you really should read the farkin' bill.

link & pdf

 

[pookha]

it may not be in the bill but anyone with any sense knows that a white person isnt going to have someone asking for "papers" just for walking down the street and someone thinking hey they must have done something \

look when i was a kid that the soviets did this to their people was yes held up as one reason they were an evil empire/

times change dont they..

and yet another poster suffering from selective illiteracy.

from my previous post (the one just above yours):

"...the Arizona law is most likely to come into play after a traffic stop."

read the full article

However, if the CBP agent sees a guy standing on the street corner, he has no reasonable suspicion – and cannot perform a legal stop. If the CBP agent sees a car make an illegal left turn, he has no reasonable suspicion and cannot perform a legal stop. Can’t ask them for the papers, no questioning, no search, nothing.

read the full article

no it is based on being born and raised in a part of the country were for a long time men of certain color were stopped for really suspect reasons if they were driving a certain type of car in a certain type of neighborhood.

all the authority has to say well he looked like a certain suspect to justify a stop.

the law can say what is says but some will find a way to justify their actions.

I somehow doubt a bunch of white college kids crammed into a mini van are going to be asked to provide proof of their immigration station.

no one, white, hispanic, or any other ethnicity, would be asked to provide proof of their immigration status, unless they could not provide one of the following documents:

Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.

you really should read the farkin' bill.

link & pdf

so really you take your driver license when you go out for a walk or a run???

 

[Roger Wilco]

it may not be in the bill but anyone with any sense knows that a white person isnt going to have someone asking for "papers" just for walking down the street and someone thinking hey they must have done something \ "reasonable suspicion’ " can be credited in the mind pretty fast.



look when i was a kid that the soviets did this to their people was yes held up as one reason they were an evil empire/

heck the thing isnt even in effect yet but we know how hispanic looking people are treated differently in arizona due to what happened to shameless.



times change dont they..

Freedom! Liberty!

 

[Cornholio]

^
Precisely my issue with this law. One wonders if illegal immigrants from places like England, France, Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Russia, or any other predominantly white country will be subject to the same "reasonable suspicion" in Arizona.

asked and answered already.

read the farkin' bill.

link & pdf

This law is just another free-for-all for the government to target anyone who's not white. Fuck that noise.

non-sequitor

Which is entirely separate to the issue that there is already a system in place to monitor the illegals in Arizona through the companies and corporations' hiring offices and human resources. Background checks and verification of citizenry are supposed to be required at most of these jobs yet there has been little to no follow-through by said companies, and the Arizona government has done nothing --absolute DICK-- to enforce these protocols or hold the companies responsible and accountable for their own lack of follow-up on this issue.

I agree with you here, except that it's the responsibility of the Federal Government to enforce immigration policies. they are the ones who haven't done anything.

Instead, the Arizona law is a blanket solution, wiping away any responsibility from the companies and again, giving law enforcement the free pass to go after anyone who isn't white.

actually, the Arizona law gives their local law enforcement agencies the power to enforce the Federal law. this is known as reciprocity. and if you'd bothered to read the farking bill you'd know that race cannot be the sole factor in determining reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

It bears repeating. What constitutes 'reasonable suspicion' ? How do you measure it? By whose judgment is it determined in a universally agreed upon and equitable way?

I've already posted a couple of examples. do your own fucking research if you're not satisfied with those. call your local law enforcement agency and ask them.

 

[Roger Wilco]

There is one reason, and one reason only for this law: to increase harassment of brown people to such a degree that they go someplace else. Everyone who makes up some other bullshit explanation is a liar.

 

[Cornholio]

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

what a person "looks like" does not factor into the equation.

Bullpucky. If I, a very obvious white person, gets pulled over by a law-enforcement officer in Arizona because of erratic driving or whatnot, I can almost guarantee I'm not going to be asked to "show my papers"

but you would be asked for your drivers license.

What about a group of people standing in front of, say, a Home Depot?

read the farking bill

 

[Roger Wilco]

A policeman can always find something you're doing wrong if he wants to, some law, statute or administrative offence or whatever.

 

[Cornholio]

all the authority has to say well he looked like a certain suspect to justify a stop.

the law can say what is says but some will find a way to justify their actions.

should we not have any laws because there are a few bad cops out there? I don't think so.

so really you take your driver license when you go out for a walk or a run???

actually, yes. I never leave the house without my wallet.

you make it sound like it's a major inconvenience to carry identification. mine fits easily in my pocket.

 

[SPOCKED]

People who support the new law in Arizona are racists.

Simple as that.

I support the Arizona bill.

Suddenly I'm a racist?

There is one reason, and one reason only for this law: to increase harassment of brown people to such a degree that they go someplace else.

The reason for the law is to help protect Arizona citizens and to mitigate the illegal immigration problem.

Everyone who makes up some other bullshit explanation is a liar.

I guess now I'm a lying racist...

 

[Professor Zoom]

As far as a Drivers License go...My wife, a legal immigrant, applied for a TX Drivers License when she was on a student visa. The State of Texas gave her a license for 8 years... 6 years LONGER than her visa.

So, it would be ENTIRELY possible for her to be an illegal immigrant with what a APPEARS to be a VALID drivers license.

I was born here and without my passport or birth certificate how would I prove that I'm a US citizen? As it is POSSIBLE to get a license without citizenship or hold onto one after your visa has expired.

Not that I would be asked for my papers--which, in theory I SHOULD be--I'm white and I don't speak with an accent. But, hell, I could be an illegal from Canada.

Anyway, because of this, my wife and I, will be boycotting Arizona. We're moving out west and we were going to stop at the Grand Canyon, probably spend two nights at hotels in Arizona, eat, buy gas, etc. But, not now. Fuck 'em. (Fark'em?) We'll spend our money in Utah and Nevada...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

so really you take your driver license when you go out for a walk or a run???

Actually, yeah, I do. Mostly out of habit. I always have my wallet with me.

As far as I'm concerned, Arizona is only doing what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.

That is a contradiction.

It is not the place of a STATE government to enforce FEDERAL immigration laws.

 

[drychlick]

yes i love the new LAW ! 59 % of people like the LAW! This comeing form a new fox poll! 99 of people come in the USA for mexico is going to be mexican! that just the way it is! The law is not racist! When i go out for a walk or anything i take my id with me! The fed. government is not doing it job so we doing it for them! love dr

 

[farmkid]

As far as I'm concerned, Arizona is only doing what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.

That is a contradiction.

It is not the place of a STATE government to enforce FEDERAL immigration laws.

Arizona has been begging the federal government for years to enforce immigration laws. The federal government has repeatedly said "don't you do anything; we'll take care of it" and then done nothing. This law is almost word for word the same as the federal law, it simply gives local and state law enforcement officers the ability to enforce federal law (because, to reiterate, the federal government has done nothing).

You're right, it's not the place of the state government to enforce federal law. However, when the state suffers because the feds won't enforce the law, the state is forced to do it themselves.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Arizona has been begging the federal government for years to enforce immigration laws. The federal government has repeatedly said "don't you do anything; we'll take care of it" and then done nothing.

That doesn't make it right, what AZ is doing now. It doesn't give them the right to violate basic civil rights.

 

[Chaos Descending]

People who support the new law in Arizona are racists.

Simple as that.

Really? Even the ones that are Hispanic themselves?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Why would anyone of Hispanic descent support a law that discriminates against their own people?