Did Scotty change the future at all?

[Gingerbread Demon]

I know this has probably been discussed to death on here but recently watched The Voyage Home again and every time I am left wondering if Scotty changed the future in some way when he gives that guy the formula for transparent aluminium?

I know it was in payment for the plexiglass but I do wonder.

 

[Nyotarules]

Like Scotty stated 'how do we know, he did not invent it?'

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Like Scotty stated 'how do we know, he did not invent it?'

That's a valid point, but does that mean he had to look him up beforehand?

If he did that he creates a loop doesn't he?

He has to go back to give the guy the formula so he invents the material, and in the future we know he's the inventor so Scotty had to find him and ooh my head now hurts. lol

 

[Nyotarules]

Going back in time the Enterprise created a new timeline where Scotty helps the man to invent the product. In the previous timeline the man invented it all by himself.

 

[Tenacity]

Just because Scotty gave the man a advanced chemical formula, doesn't mean the man would have been able to create transparent aluminum using mid-eighties technology.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We have absolutely no idea whether or not Dr. Nichols would have invented transparent aluminum if not for Scotty.

What I think, however, is that the time travel as depicted in ST IV always occurred. There was never a timeline where it did not. So it really doesn't matter whether Nichols would have made this invention on his own, because he always had Scotty's help.

Besides, the crew returned to the same future they left, so this lends credence to the theory that ST IV always happened. (Same goes for ST:FC)

 

[Ronald Held]

Closed time loop would be my explanation.

 

[FormerLurker]

Like Scotty stated 'how do we know, he did not invent it?'

That's a valid point, but does that mean he had to look him up beforehand?

Indeed, the novelization still has the part where Scotty recognized Dr. Nichols' name, and realized that he'd invented it in the first place. Not canon, but there you go.

If he did that he creates a loop doesn't he?

He has to go back to give the guy the formula so he invents the material, and in the future we know he's the inventor so Scotty had to find him and ooh my head now hurts. lol

Welcome to Time Travel 101, class.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

#NotNowMadeline

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

#NotNowMadeline

I don't get that reference

 

[Green Shirt]

#NotNowMadeline

Her life probably changed for the better, thanks to Scotty.

 

[urbandefault]

I don't get that reference

4:03

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[Gingerbread Demon]

4:03

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And now I remember that......... Thanks

To this day we'll never know what Madeline wanted

 

[stardream]

I always thought "Madeline' was a contest winner. I don't know where I got that idea.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I know it was in payment for the plexiglass but I do wonder.

Plexiglass? He needed him to make transparent aluminum for them and he couldn't without the formula, which Scotty let him keep after that. Was "plexiglass" just your shorthand for the same material?

 

[cardinal biggles]

No, Scotty traded the formula for transparent aluminum for actual sheets of plexiglass that Plexicorp had on hand so he could build the whale tank.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I just assumed that they would want to use to use the new material.

 

[cardinal biggles]

They were on a time crunch. It's doubtful they could have manufactured enough with 1980s technology.

 

[Spot261]

I suppose it depends to a great extent just which version of the time travel rules were in play. Trek has been inconsistent on this throughout, causality loops for instance being occasionally part of the system, whilst the sensitivity of causality veers from virtual determinism to full butterfly effect.

The key here would be the first methinks. It matters not if Plexicorp could manufacture much, they would doubtless trademark the formula and sell the rights anyway, meaning the market would be flooded regardless. Whether we have the inevitable flow of history or a butterfly causing hurricanes is irrelevent, the consequences would be massive enough to be a major part of even the most robust flow.

What would matter is whether the invention of "transparent aluminiun" was part of a causailty loop. As Scotty says "How do we know he didn't invent the stuff" - in which case his actions may have been part of the overall "plan" all along. For all we know he might have changed the name and put it into day to day life with it picking the name "trasnparent aluminium" up later on, or even kept the name if we assume the trek continuity veers significantly from our own at such an early stage. For all we know 1990s engineering is, and always was, entirely reliant on the stuff in universe.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Just because Scotty gave the man a advanced chemical formula, doesn't mean the man would have been able to create transparent aluminum using mid-eighties technology.

Maybe not, but the simple action causes hell with the timeline. It branches off from one brach to thousands in the consequences. Off the top of my head (but it's way too complex and deep to address):

-- Even if his company couldn't make it, he filed patents.

-- New programs and machinery are made to handle trying to make it.

-- The very act of trying to get it done may require hiring additional personnel, temporary personnel, or just give existing employees more hours, which takes time away from their lives they spent doing something else and more money in their pockets which will be spent in ways that branch out again.

-- Scotty spoke to the mouse. That meant nothing then, but when technology starts changing and you can speak to computers, the boss might remember that and have new ideas and new patents and invent something he wouldn't have before.

-- Even failure produces results. Science is full of failures that lead to something else, so who knows what will happen even if he fails making transparent alluminum.


There's just so, so, so, so, so many braches. Scotty didn't just cause a butterfly to flap its wings, he blew it up. And not to forget: Chekov threw his hand phaser away! Idiot. So what if it doesn't work? Taht doesn't mean you leave it in the past!