DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Mr Light]

The "Death of the Family" tie-ins were a lot more important to the characters, whereas "Night of the Owls" tie-ins were just 'random assassin attacks random target' stories.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

You can easily skip the crossover issues for Teen Titans, Red Hood and the Outlaws, and Catwoman on account of them all being freaking terrible, though. Also, Nightwing's might confuse you if you haven't been reading the book, since it relies heavily on stuff that had been happening in that book before the crossover.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I've been just reading "Batman" and yeah as the others have said you don't need to get any of the other tie-in titles. Most...if not at all the main stuff happens in Bruce's book anyway.

So it's that time again. With Batman Incorporated officially ending this past week...I thought I'd update my pulls for the 52'Verse. Currently they're the following:

-Action Comics
-Aquaman
-Batman
-He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
-Smallville Season 11 (digital)
-Superman/Batman
-Superman
-Superman Unchained
-Wonder Woman

My DC Pull list is actually increasing.

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah I don't read the Bat supporting titles, so I was a little confused about what was going on in Batgirl and Nightwing but they were clearly important to those titles. The Batman & Robin was superfluous but good with amazing Patrick Gleason art.

 

[Hound of UIster]

My list:
Superman/Batman (probably one if not the best book and blows SU out of the water)
Superman Unchained
Green Arrow
Swamp Thing
Animal Man (both AM and ST are back to their old stride pre-RW since Snyder's departure)
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
New Guardians
Red Lanterns (the Green Lantern titles even Red Lanterns have all gotten better since the creative reboot )
Justice League
Justice League of America
Wonder Woman
Aquaman

I just read Grant Morrison's Grand Finale for Batman Incorporated and absolutely love it. I know there are those on the board who aren't a fan of some of the things that he did with the character and the mythos...but this has become my all time favourite runs. Chris Burnham too...what a find as well. This was one of his best issues on art as well. The mysterious figure we talked about last month was indeed a Kane...and House of UIster was correct in identifying which one. The ending was simply marvelous.

Morrison mentioned that he thought "fans would hate it". I'm not particularly sure what he was meaning when he said that. He even included a mention of Zero Year...so now we pretty much can confirm this takes place in the New 52. That actually surprised me when I read that line.

I thought it was a better ending honestly than the one in the movies.

 

[TheSeeker]

Currently I'm reading:

Action Comics
Aquaman
Batman
Batman/Superman
Flash
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern: New Guardians
Justice League
Justice League of America
Superboy
Supergirl
Superman
Superman Unchained
Wonder Woman

I am seriously considering dropping all the Green Lantern titles but I want to see where the current story line is going first.

 

[kirk55555]

For DC, I just started reading Flash again (I stopped after issue 2, but just started again from issue 18). Its actually decent. I mean, the love interest is beyond boring and useless, but the actual story is entertaining. Its nice to see that Hal and aquaman aren't the only JL members who have a decent ongoing. It makes me wish some good writers could get their hands on Wonder Woman, Superman and batman (and the main JL book too, but I think Johns would probably make another writer fight him in a kirk/spock style fight to the death to get the right to work on the book away from him)

 

[Hound of UIster]

The reason Johns has these books is that he sells. No one at DC and Marvel can match what he does.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, since according to comicbookresources Marvel outsoild DC in june (the latest avaliable sales numbers are from June) apparently people can outdo Johns. Also, sales do not mean quality. Rob Liefeld sold a lot of comics in the 90's, until people started to realise he was an idiot. Although, to be honest, I can't find many people singing Johns praises at this point anyway (especially about JL). I don't hate the guy, his JSA, Justice Society and Green Lantern runs were awesome, he just sucks with the stuff he's writing now.

 

[TheSeeker]

It makes me wish some good writers could get their hands on Wonder Woman, Superman and batman (and the main JL book too, but I think Johns would probably make another writer fight him in a kirk/spock style fight to the death to get the right to work on the book away from him)

I think Wonder Woman is one of the best titles in the New 52 right now.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Wonder Woman is my favourite title from the 52'Verse. Essentially from when the first arc ended onward. Just brilliant work.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Only the diehard purists hate the current WW book. Azzarello is doing amazing stuff with both WW and the New Gods and there is the Earth One WW to look forward.

Honestly most of the top DC books have a good selection of writers:

Batman: Snyder, Tomasi, Morrison (though Inc just ended)
Superman: Snyder, Pak (when he come on Action)
WW: Azzarello
Green Arrow: Lemire
Aquaman: Johns

Well, since according to comicbookresources Marvel outsoild DC in june (the latest avaliable sales numbers are from June) apparently people can outdo Johns.

Surely you know that those are the aggregate sales and not just Johns alone or do you really believe he writes all the DC books? And if you look closer, Marvel double ships and has better medium selling titles while DC has a load of badly selling titles dragging them down.

If you look at the June sales, Johns has one book in the top 10, one in the top 20 and an Aquaman book that isn't cancelled. It's not something any writer can emulate. Look at Bendis, his Moon Knight and Spider-Woman were both cancelled and were doing terribly even though he was the Avengers writer and Marvel's top writer at that time.

 

[kirk55555]

I read the first two issues of wonder Woman. I saw a Hermes who looked like he was born when a smurf had a child with a generic grey alien (the stereotype alien with grey skin and black eyes)/an asgard from Stargate. I also saw wonder woman being an ass, no amazons (becuause they're dead, and were rapists/murders when they were alive anyway) and a stupid story about WW protecting a pregnant woman and being the daughter of zeus (who, knowing this comic, is probably drawn like Papa Smurf). That combined with unimpressive art just made it another mediocre New 52 comic to me. That still makes it a better book than batman or any of the superman stuff, but thats not an accomplishment, and it doesn't make the book worth reading.

The only somewhat interesting appearance of wW in the new 52 was when she showed up in batwoman, but even there she was weird and bloodthirsty (although not as much as in Justice League).

Only the diehard purists hate the current WW book. Azzarello is doing amazing stuff with both WW and the New Gods and there is the Earth One WW to look forward.

Honestly most of the top DC books have a decent selection of writers:

Batman: Snyder, Tomasi, Morrison (though Inc just ended)
Superman: Snyder, Pak (when he comics on Action)
WW: Azzarello
Green Arrow: Lemire
Aquaman: JOhns

Well, since according to comicbookresources Marvel outsoild DC in june (the latest avaliable sales numbers are from June) apparently people can outdo Johns.

Surely you know that those are the aggregate sales and not just Johns alone or do you really believe he writes all the DC books? And if you look closer, Marvel double ships and has better medium selling titles while DC has a load of badly selling titles dragging them down.

If you look at the June sales, Johns has one book in the top 10, one in the top 20 and an Aquaman book that isn't cancelled. It's not something any writer can emulate. Look at Bendis, his Moon Knight and Spider-Woman were both cancelled and were doing terribly even though he was the Avengers writer and Marvel's top writer at that time.

Johns sucks in the new 52 no matter how much he sells. Again, I bring up Rob Liefeld. He made a lot of money and sold a lot of books in the 90s, but he still sucked. Justice League sells, but I don't see many people saying its really any good (and I know it isn't since I've been reading it).


Also, compared to Peter david's aquaman, Johns Aquaman is a joke. Its not actually a bad book, its pretty good when its not focusing on the most boring superhero team ever, but its far from the best Aquaman book.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Johns Aquaman is the best the character and title have been SINCE Peter David's solo run and Morrison in JLA. Johns has been terrific on Justice League since Jim Lee left as well.

I also agree with House of UIster regarding Superman/Batman. The first issue was a little off, but the second issue Pak nailed it out of the ball park. I am also liking it over Superman Unchained.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Johns run of Aquaman is better in that he doesn't try and turn Aquaman into a second rate Namor. He acknowledges Arthur's dual existence as both a prince of Atlantis, the son of a lighthouse keeper and a protector of both sea and land. And Johns certainly doesn't try and write off Mera. I think those were all mistakes on PAD's part.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Given the fact that Johns adores Mera that doesn't surprise me at all. If Johns wrote a Mera ongoing or mini-series I would read it. Half the book is about her just as much as it is about Arthur and that is one of the things I love most about it.

 

[kirk55555]

Johns Aquaman is the best the character and title have been SINCE Peter David's solo run and Morrison in JLA. Johns has been terrific on Justice League since Jim Lee left as well.

Is there another Justice League that I'm not reading (and I'm not talking about JLA, I am reading that, although not for much longer if it doesn't improve)? One where they aren't constantly a-holes to each other? If so, I'd love to read it. I will give Johns and whoever the artist/designer on JL is one compliment. They got rid of the idiotic JL Dark Zatanna Chriss Angel attire. Plus, Johns apparently forgot that New 52 Zatanna isn't, and has never been, a stage magician (she was shown to literally be a magical exotic dancer, something that immediately made me hate the JL Dark writer), yet he drew her as one in the first issue of JL she was in. That is literally the only good thing thats happened in Johns run so far. Besides that, its just a group of narrcisists taking shots at each other, with a little bit of actually doing something every issue (although the doing something is optional in Johns book). Heck, Johns even managed to bungle Hal Jordan in JL, but still write him normally in green Lantern. Thats an accomplishment in bad writing. Cyborg is hilarious because he's had no character development or moments since the first arc and is basically a walking, talking spare utility belt for batman. JL has been bad, but the last issue was just ridiculous. In the last issue, they

Spoiler: Justice League

Turned Superman into a killer for absolutely no reason (I don't count the stupid Pandora's box as a legitimate reason to make superman kill) and had the JLA actually fight the JL successfully, which would never happen. The only jLA member that could match any JL member is Martian manhunter. besides that, Vibe is no match for Flash (try "disrupting" his speed force when he knocks you out faster than you can think), and catwoman couldn't beat batman if he was bleeding to death after bane ripped off both his arms. I don't even want to get started on Diva Girl (Johns even destroys characters he created) or the fact that they think The atom can defeat a woman who can turn intangible.

I will admit that some New 52 titles aren't for me (like all Star Western), and I can almost understand how people might find enjoyment in Wonder Woman (I think its mediocre, but compared to other new 52 stuff its fairly inoffensive, besides the stuff about the Amazons and Diana's dad being zeus), but this Justice League is just horrible. Its worse than Robinson's pre-reboot League, which was easily the worst JL ever pre New 52 (and I'm including JL Detroit in that statement). Even the worst League's usually don't have all the members hate each other and act like a-holes constantly.

As for Aquaman, I like Mera, but nobody can beat PAD's run. Johns isn't even in the running. I mean, all the issues with the worst super team ever are almost unreadable they're so boring. Besides that its been decent (although police "arresting" Mera still makes no sense to me) but nothing that exciting. Its a solid, decently entertaining book. Not super impressive, but usually a good read.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Johns post Jim Lee departure on Justice League has been terrific. Around issue 11 or 12 I think.

 

[kirk55555]

Why would it matter if Lee left? He was an ok artist, but Johns is the writer, Lee leaving didn't change anything (except maybe WW stopped posing so much for no reason).

 

[Admiral_Young]

Jim Lee was co-plotting with Johns.