D or E?

[Praetor]

To be fair, the D was developed during the time of increased animosity with the Cardassians leading to the Cardassian Wars, implied hostility with the Tholians and Talarians, a war with the Tzenkethi, and a period of Romulan isolation not unlike the era in which the Constitution class was developed.

Ship of peace or not, I think she can hold her own just fine.

 

[CaptainStoner]

To be fair, the D was developed during the time of increased animosity with the Cardassians leading to the Cardassian Wars, implied hostility with the Tholians and Talarians, a war with the Tzenkethi, and a period of Romulan isolation not unlike the era in which the Constitution class was developed.

Ship of peace or not, I think she can hold her own just fine.

True. Bursts of 4-5 torps from each of the front launchers? Youch. She could probably do the same from the rear launcher.
It would have been nice to see a Galaxy in a good, protracted battle, taking out a couple of Warbirds. Or coming to the rescue and slagging 3 or 4 BOP's at once, like gnats. Just once, to see that ship totally own the battlefield.

 

[swaaye]

Didn't the Sov lack phaser coverage initially? They tweaked things for Nemesis partly due to that I believe.

The only time I remember seeing a Galaxy truly unloading is during the season 3 TNG episode, The Survivors.

 

[Red Ranger]

Have we ever seen a time when they joined an old saucer section to a new engineering hull? It might have been interesting to just establish the new hull is a Galaxy-class hull, Mark II or Mark III.

Ranger, the process you're describing is called "kitbashing," something they did (quite unashamedly I might add) for The Best of Both Worlds' infamous "starship graveyard" scene. In the extras for Season 4, they focus on that scene and go into detail about how the New Orleans-class is in fact a Galaxy class saucer with a smaller hull and different warp nacelles. I actually really like the look of that design, but I wish they'd have made it a lot bigger (on the scale of the Nebula class at least).

Actually, I do know about kitbashing. What I meant was it might have been interesting if in GEN, only the saucer section survived while the stardrive section was destroyed, and they'd then join the D saucer to a new stardrive, a larger, updated version of that section, in the next movie, FC. -- RR

 

[Praetor]

To be fair, the D was developed during the time of increased animosity with the Cardassians leading to the Cardassian Wars, implied hostility with the Tholians and Talarians, a war with the Tzenkethi, and a period of Romulan isolation not unlike the era in which the Constitution class was developed.

Ship of peace or not, I think she can hold her own just fine.

True. Bursts of 4-5 torps from each of the front launchers? Youch. She could probably do the same from the rear launcher.
It would have been nice to see a Galaxy in a good, protracted battle, taking out a couple of Warbirds. Or coming to the rescue and slagging 3 or 4 BOP's at once, like gnats. Just once, to see that ship totally own the battlefield.

That would have rocked. I'm not sure about a couple of warbirds, though. Maybe one.

Didn't the Sov lack phaser coverage initially? They tweaked things for Nemesis partly due to that I believe.

The only time I remember seeing a Galaxy truly unloading is during the season 3 TNG episode, The Survivors.

The Sovereign lacked strips on the nacelle pylons, but it's conceivable that others could have covered those arcs. I've always liked 'The Survivors.'

Have we ever seen a time when they joined an old saucer section to a new engineering hull? It might have been interesting to just establish the new hull is a Galaxy-class hull, Mark II or Mark III.

Ranger, the process you're describing is called "kitbashing," something they did (quite unashamedly I might add) for The Best of Both Worlds' infamous "starship graveyard" scene. In the extras for Season 4, they focus on that scene and go into detail about how the New Orleans-class is in fact a Galaxy class saucer with a smaller hull and different warp nacelles. I actually really like the look of that design, but I wish they'd have made it a lot bigger (on the scale of the Nebula class at least).

Actually, I do know about kitbashing. What I meant was it might have been interesting if in GEN, only the saucer section survived while the stardrive section was destroyed, and they'd then join the D saucer to a new stardrive, a larger, updated version of that section, in the next movie, FC. -- RR

I could have lived with that. Good excuse for new sets, anyway.

 

[Rii]

I echo Trekker4747's sentiments that the -D had more character than the -E, although I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to the ships themselves and how much is simply a function of the time and experiences the audience and characters had invested in them.

One of the aformentioned horrible angles from which the -D simply doesn't work for me.

 

[RAMA]

I echo Trekker4747's sentiments that the -D had more character than the -E, although I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to the ships themselves and how much is simply a function of the time and experiences the audience and characters had invested in them.

One of the aformentioned horrible angles from which the -D simply doesn't work for me.

Wow opinions differ greatly eh? I love that angle, it looks dolphin-like..beautiful, graceful!

RAMA

 

[Trekker4747]

It would have been nice to see a Galaxy in a good, protracted battle, taking out a couple of Warbirds. Or coming to the rescue and slagging 3 or 4 BOP's at once, like gnats. Just once, to see that ship totally own the battlefield.

The Romulan Warbird and the Galaxy-class were supposed to be pretty evenly matched if the not the edge going to the Warbird.

That was nice about TNG they kind of kept the technological and capabilites elements "in check."

Unlike some other series that *cough*Voyager*cough* seemed to give the Federation/technology as a whole great unlimited power well beyond over the top even for a franchise where people are digitzed and transmited across space.

 

[Lateralus]

Unlike some other series that *cough*Voyager*cough* seemed to give the Federation/technology as a whole great unlimited power well beyond over the top even for a franchise where people are digitzed and transmited across space.

The Borg had at one point been one of the most well conceived villains in television history. Then Voyager came along.

Everything that had been so well conceived and carried through about the Borg got flushed down the toilet when somebody decided it was a good idea to have Voyager morph into Viper mode and chew up Cubes.

I sincerely hate Voyager. I really do. And that says a lot since it was Voyager that made me a Trek fan in the first place.

 

[swaaye]

Yeah it really is amazing how different Voyager and TNG are. I don't hate Voyager, but I definitely think that the way the Trek universe works on TNG is much more interesting.

I enjoy Voyager's first two seasons the most. Before they ruined the Borg. Although I have to say that the show relies way too much on deus ex machina plots. It is especially ridiculous to see new technologies save the day on every other episode when all the crew really has available for R&D resources is all 150 of themselves..... They blew up like 30 shuttles. They magically gained new shuttle classes as time went on. And then they scratch-built their own craft in a week (gimme a break!!!) Why not just throw together a few runabouts while they're at it.

 

[Praetor]

I echo Trekker4747's sentiments that the -D had more character than the -E, although I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to the ships themselves and how much is simply a function of the time and experiences the audience and characters had invested in them.

One of the aformentioned horrible angles from which the -D simply doesn't work for me.

Wow opinions differ greatly eh? I love that angle, it looks dolphin-like..beautiful, graceful!

RAMA

I agree, that's one of my favorites. I was actually trying to think of an angle I dislike, and couldn't come up with one off the top of my head.

It would have been nice to see a Galaxy in a good, protracted battle, taking out a couple of Warbirds. Or coming to the rescue and slagging 3 or 4 BOP's at once, like gnats. Just once, to see that ship totally own the battlefield.

The Romulan Warbird and the Galaxy-class were supposed to be pretty evenly matched if the not the edge going to the Warbird.

That was nice about TNG they kind of kept the technological and capabilites elements "in check."

Yeah, that was definitely a good dramatic decision.

Have a look here at John Eaves' blog for a couple of photos of the Enterprise-D (relabelled E) in the crate, post-'Generations.'

 

[Myasishchev]

The -D was a far superior ship in almost every concievable way.

But more than that it was their ship it was another character of a show, it was the ship the fans had watched for seven year. It was the Enterprise!

Then they destroyed it in a blaze of suck where everyone on the ship's compentence and IQ levels dropped 100 points. (10,000 for Data) Worf gets a chair (Apparently his reaction times in bridge-boardings weren't slow enough?) and thus it never occurs to him to unload all of the Enterprise's 5 or 6 phaser banks with a forward firing arc and a slavo of 10 torpedoes at that BoP. I mean, seriously, to quote both Be'tor and Picard himself the Enterprise was a Galaxy-class Federation flagship up against a 20 year old Bird of Prey. Shields or no shields it shouldn't have even been a match. The Enterprise could've made short, short, work of that BoP but instead it fires a couple phasers and one piddly torpedo.

Funny, that scene rankles me in the opposite direction. That photon torpedo the BoP got off should've turned the whole ship into part molten slag, part vapor.

 

[Rii]

One of the aformentioned horrible angles from which the -D simply doesn't work for me.

Wow opinions differ greatly eh? I love that angle, it looks dolphin-like..beautiful, graceful!

RAMA

I agree, that's one of my favorites. I was actually trying to think of an angle I dislike, and couldn't come up with one off the top of my head.

It occurs to me that most of the angles I don't like are those from which the proportions of the saucer are obscured.

 

[Praetor]

^That's a nice contrary opinion to the 'saucer is misproportioned' argument.

I don't think it's misproportioned at all...

 

[Trekker4747]

Funny, that scene rankles me in the opposite direction. That photon torpedo the BoP got off should've turned the whole ship into part molten slag, part vapor.

The torpedoes in Trek have always been pretty underpowered. They're supposed to carry like a gram or so each of matter and antimatter the resulting explosion from the two meeting would be pretty signfigant. I guess we can "reason" that the ship's SIF -working on a different frequency than the defense shields- hold the ship together and the materials its made of "better resist" the anhilation of matter and antimatter.

It wasn't, either, the first time we've seen an undefended ship take a hit from a torpedo.

I enjoy Voyager's first two seasons the most. Before they ruined the Borg. Although I have to say that the show relies way too much on deus ex machina plots. It is especially ridiculous to see new technologies save the day on every other episode when all the crew really has available for R&D resources is all 150 of themselves..... They blew up like 30 shuttles. They magically gained new shuttle classes as time went on. And then they scratch-built their own craft in a week (gimme a break!!!) Why not just throw together a few runabouts while they're at it.

The thing that got me most about Voyager is that you really could tell TPTB behind it didn't have a clue how the ship and the technology in the Trek verse worked. They just kind-of said, "these people are 400 years in the future and have gone to school to know how to do neat stuff! We can do whatever we want."

It was thanks to that mentality that Voyager was able to build the Delta Flyer in a short time -umm What about the aeroshuttle? Or the limited resources?- and most absurdly retrofit the ship's warp-core to put the ship into transwarp.



Transwarp. A "speed" that the Trek Tech Manual says is infinite speed and is impossible to obtain because the transwarp ship would "occupy all points in the universe simulataneously" and if it is is infinite speed it would require infinite energy to maintain. It's a "speed" that is supposed to be impossible to obtain even in Trek's terms. And MORE than that you have the Federation's top engineers and scientists working on propulsion techniques: thinking, brain storming, trying to come up with faster speeds.

Voyager's mediocre Engineering crew of, what, a couple dozen scrapes one together in a matter of weeks using an Interpid class' warp core, in the middle of nowhere, without any resources and supposedly on a materials and fuel budget.

Fuck you Brannon Braga.

Fuck.

You.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Oh, I know. It's probably my biggest pet peeve with Star Trek though.

Also on antimatter (and Voyager), I like how an antiproton bath is used in medical practice. In reality, that would be kind of like using plutonium, but worse.

 

[Trekker4747]

^Oh, I know. It's probably my biggest pet peeve with Star Trek though.

Also on antimatter (and Voyager), I like how an antiproton bath is used in medical practice. In reality, that would be kind of like using plutonium, but worse.

"Antiproton" don't we call that an "electron."

 

[Praetor]

^Oh, I know. It's probably my biggest pet peeve with Star Trek though.

Also on antimatter (and Voyager), I like how an antiproton bath is used in medical practice. In reality, that would be kind of like using plutonium, but worse.

"Antiproton" don't we call that an "electron."

Not quite.

Specifically relevant:

In mid-June 2006, CERN succeeded in determining the mass of the antiproton, which they measured at 1,836.153674(5) times more massive than an electron. This is exactly the same as the mass of a "regular" proton, necessitating further research into the nature of difference between matter and anti-matter, in order to explain how our universe survived the Big Bang and why so little remains of antimatter today in our solar system.

I might point out that the oh-so-destructive beams fired by the Planet Killer in TOS' 'The Doomsday Machine' were described as 'pure anti-proton, absolutely pure!'

So Kes took an antimatter bath.

Silly hologram. It wouldn't have happened on the Enterprise-D. Probably not the E, either, but you never know. They had an EMH, and reused the Voyager sickbay set.

It sort of takes the wind out of the sails of the argument that TV filming sets aren't quite up to par with movie filming sets, eh? Thus rendering that part of the 'kill the D' argument moot.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Do you think they were right to destroy the Enterprise D?

I do actually. I thought that "Generations" felt like a transition between the Classic Trek movies and the Next Generation, but also between the Next Generation series and the film series - and the destruction of the Enterprise D brought a kind of closure to those stories. Poetic really.

Plus I never liked the design of the Enterprise D. I prefer the E.

yep..I hated the D from the start. Just doesn't look good, IMO. The E, which really looks like the Ecselior on steroids, was a great ship that got totally ruined in the crappy CGI versions of the later two movies...

But a nice, kind of sexy looking ship, in FC...

Rob

 

[Praetor]

See? It's all just personal preference.

For some reason, the model version of the E looked more 'related' to the D than the CGI did. I can't place why. But the CGI versions of the E looked like crap. I'm sorry, but they did. Especially in 'Insurrection.'