Confusion about the timeline....
- Thread starter Roald
- Start date
That would certainly be fine... but then we have a problem of no Gwyn... or we could have Gwyn which could have been made in an accelerated fashion with cells programmed to stop the ageing to a 'normal rate' in the equivalent of her teen years (which she would reach in 2 years in that case).
Time travel is a funny thing...
I don't mind the fact the Protostar was thrown back in time... and it does make sense from a given point of view. These things happen after all (at least in Trek they do).
Time travel has a heavy presence in every iteration of Trek. It’s almost a requirement if you want to introduce new fans to its many facets and versions!
I don't think Lower Decks has done a time travel episode yet...
The Ent-D had the ability to project holograms from stations in early TNG. So, that's not a novelty at all - it just wasn't used most of the time (likely for budgetary reasons).
This could been solved by making The Diviner and Gwyn Ocampan.
I suppose. The Ocampa who lived on another Array in deep space (near Suspiria) certainly seemed like they had the technology to get where they needed to be (although we're still talking about decades worth of travel at usual Warp speeds - so, not enough time to get to the border of Delta and Beta Quadrants near the Galactic core - and the displacement wave technology didn't seem like it was safest for ships - unless they had mental abilities to propel them 10 000 lightyears in 10 seconds [like Kes did for VOY crew in 'The Gift' - which I suppose is possible, but Kes was at that point at an evolutionary threshold - still when she came back in 'Fury', it was inferred she did have the ability to get home, so I guess it would have been doable])... and they might have had the motivation to be resentful of Starfleet given what transpired between VOY crew and Suspiria (but the matter at the time seemed closed because Janeway made it clear she did NOT kill the Caretaker - so, not sure if they would have had the right motivation to go after Starfleet in general).
It would be interesting for Prodigy to touch upon the subject of the Ocampa perhaps. Both the Proto Warp and QS drives can get both the Dauntless and Protostar to the Ocampa homeworld very fast since they seem to be comparably fast (10 000 Ly's per minute at maximum - QS as used in Timeless was that fast at least).
It would be interesting to learn what happened with Kes. Even if she managed to extend her lifespan beyond 9 years (Which certainly seems plausible for her), That would make her 12 years old in 2383 (the year in which Prodigy is taking place), so she would be younger than Tannis, and would have had plenty of time to teach other Ocampa of how to use their mental abilities, and she brought back advanced technology too (both of which would help protect the Ocampa from the Kazon for instance)... its possible she may have managed to reverse the damage to the Ocampa homeworld the Caretaker originally did... or if she hadn't, if Dauntless and Prodigy go there, maybe they could do that instead.
I think Lower Decks does as well. The Parliament class is one of my favorite designs, and it looks like a logical progression from Voyager and the last couple Enterprises.
But Picard's live action ships are awful. Especially the new Stargazer. All pointy and gangly.
Which is funny, since Stargazer was designed by legacy Trek designers who have been on board since DS9.
Well, The Station itself is a little pointy and gangly.
Yes, but that's usually the case with alien species/organisations design phylosophy (in this case, the Cardassians - because DS9 was their mining station originally), not UFP and Starfleet per say (which mostly left behind more pointy and gangly bits in the 23rd century in favour of more curvature and smoothness in the 24th).
Some pointy bits you can get away with... but when they dominate, it kinda ruins the flow for me (but I guess that's just me).
There was a new ship class that was due to be introduced into DS9 season 8 (had it ran longer than the original 7 seasons - the USS Emmett Till).
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...tt_Till.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20181021162503
This ship actually looks really good.
Maybe that would have been better for the new Stargazer (they could have said the original Stargazer was given a full overall from the ground up - superstructure included - reshaping it all with transporters and replicators would get the job done easily enough to get modern materials, technology and design - it would effectively be a new ship made from the old one - at some point all old ships will go through enough upgrades/refits where they will become brand as a result, so, you can keep the same ship in service for a VERY long time and every 50-100 years its given a full refit which end up reshaping it to a large degree and refreshing the superstructure too).
I have to agree that the Stargazer we got in ST: Picard has a bit too many pointy bits. I would have preferred something more streamlined with smoother connection points between the aft section and nacelle pylons.
The oval saucer is fine, its the aft bit which ends up going off the rails by making it look 'chubby' and out of proportion... and too boxy.
The saucer isn't really flowing into that section... it just seems... 'tacked on' for some reason.
Most new ST Online ship designs aren't that visually appealing to me I'm afraid. There are exceptions of course, but I'm a bit sad ST: Picard decided to go down the route of using ST: Online ships as opposed to making its own 25th century ones - plus, the decision to use older ship designs as completely new ship classifications when overall the hull looks more or less the same is a bit daft. I'd just say its the same class of ship in a different configuration (adapted for a given mission profile).
Similarly in Lower Decks, the Obena class is a completely new class of ships as opposed to being a late 24th century Excelsior class refit (which to me would make a lot more sense)... and then technology changed to the point where integration of Borg tech from the Artifact resulted in upgrading the design to what we saw in ST: Picard (for example) for the Excelsior.
None of the people who designed the Stargazer designed DS9.
They didn't come up with the plot for Season 8 until they made that documentary, and the ship was designed for that Season 8, it isn't an old unused design that Eaves dug up (for once).
The Obena and Excelsior II are both fairly larger than the Excelsior. They wouldn't work as Refits.
Which follows on from the designs we got in the TNG movies.
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Well, they obviously don't know Star Trek
More to the point, the design attitude from Starfleet shifted and reflected a much different Starfleet.
I got the same impression. It was reinforced by HoloJaneway's dialogue in 1x08 "Time Amok" dating her log entry to "Stardate 607125.6"... which is one more digit than we're accustomed to seeing in the 24th century, and would actually place it in the early 30th century (at least if we can assume a linear progression between that and DIS s3 and s4).
But then in 1x10 they bumped it back down to five digits...
Size of the ship has little to do with a refit.
The Enterprise-E ended up being reshaped between Insurrection and Nemesis and SF added a deck or two as well (in addition to more phaser strips and torpedo tubes).
Even the ENT-A has been reshaped vs the TOS version.
So, changing the size of a ship isn't the issue... you don't have to retain the original ship size the class started out with.
So I can easily see pre-existing Excelsior class ships in service receiving refits in the 2380-ies with sovereign class style technology to update them (and increasing/changing their size and shape in the process) and finally refit them again in the early 25th century where technology may/would have advanced further to warrant the change to Excelsior II as we saw (perhaps due to widespread use of Quantum Slipstream technology (v1 and v2).
The underlying materials are there, just harvest the original, and reshape it into a modern day version using replicators and transporters as opposed to making a completely new ship from scratch.
Saves you resources among other things as pre-existing ships are retained in service and completely 'refreshed' and essentially are 'brand new' by the time such an extensive refit happens.
Not to the extent of the size difference here. The Ent-A refit didn't add 100 meters of length to the ship.
Either way, the creators of said designs have said they're not refits.
One of the writers confirmed that it was intentionally wrong, caused by the proximity to the time anomaly. Screwed up her internal chronometer. Which is why the stardate was fine next.
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Neither did the Excelsior II.
Its length is 588 meters, whereas the original Excelsior is 511 meters.
That's a difference of 77 meters... easily accounted on the premise of new nacelles being longer/larger for example.
All other specs seem similar enough to the original Excelsior.
And as I said, SF has transporters and replicators that can reshape matter on a subatomic level. Adding stuff to ships to make them larger is hardly the problem here. And why would you want to make a new ship from scratch when you can simply use the older ship (which arguably required more resources to make) by disassembling its matter into base elements and reconstituting it into new stuff?
Even if SF needs to add some materials to the refit, it would be minor compared to making a ship from scratch.
Like I said, to me that adds a whole new level of stupidity that makes no sense.
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As I understand things the Protostar launched in 238x and sometime into its mission into the Delta Q ran into a temporal anomaly and ended up 50 years in the future.
2386: the UFP makes first contact with Solum. Division about contact leads to civil war.
2436: They have just sorted it all out when the Protostar arrives in orbit. A plan is hatched to send the Protostar back before first contact to prevent the civil war. Chakotay prevents this with what remains of his crew. Protostar launches empty. The Vau N'Akat send 100 ships into the anomaly after the Protostar.
2363: The Diviner arrives in the past and starts searching for the Protostar, eventually setting up a slave mine on Tars Lamora which is where he thinks it is.
2381: The Vindicator and her Dreadnok arrive in the past. Infiltrates Starfleet as Asencia.
2383: Protostar found by Dal and co, and they escape on it and start the chase.
2384 April: Protostar destroyed after Starfleet PVP battle.
2384 Stardate 61408.8 (May): Crew of Protostar accepted into Starfleet. Protostar Class commissioned.
Dates taken from the Wiki/Janeway logs.
2386: the UFP makes first contact with Solum. Division about contact leads to civil war.
2436: They have just sorted it all out when the Protostar arrives in orbit. A plan is hatched to send the Protostar back before first contact to prevent the civil war. Chakotay prevents this with what remains of his crew. Protostar launches empty. The Vau N'Akat send 100 ships into the anomaly after the Protostar.
2363: The Diviner arrives in the past and starts searching for the Protostar, eventually setting up a slave mine on Tars Lamora which is where he thinks it is.
2381: The Vindicator and her Dreadnok arrive in the past. Infiltrates Starfleet as Asencia.
2383: Protostar found by Dal and co, and they escape on it and start the chase.
2384 April: Protostar destroyed after Starfleet PVP battle.
2384 Stardate 61408.8 (May): Crew of Protostar accepted into Starfleet. Protostar Class commissioned.
Dates taken from the Wiki/Janeway logs.
Which is in keeping with Starfleet's mode of operations. They like having a variety of starships and adding on new ones, whether based on similar older frames or not, is pretty standard for them. They are not worried about resources at all and creating a new starship is like building a new Lego creation from existing blocks-it just takes time, since resources are post scarcity.
