Clues

[Kobayshi Maru]

The threat of destruction and plan to erase the crew memories only came about due to Data remaining conscious. That is not their usual M.O.


DATA
They are xenophobes, sir. Isolationists. The Paxans terraformed a protoplanet in this system in order to better conceal their whereabouts. The apparent wormhole we experienced is actually a trap designed to keep out invaders. The energy field stuns everyone on board the invading vessel and places them in a state of biochemical stasis. [...] The Paxans then take the ship out of their territory.

RIKER
So the crew wakes up and thinks they've been through a wormhole, count their blessings and keep going.

DATA
Precisely.
​

The choice they've given the crew TWICE is either to agree to a collective mind rape or be annihilated. You can't deny that, can you? How many times in your opinion should someone be guilty of rape before you call him a rapist? Plus we don't know how many of these "exceptions" to their MO they've effected before. It's likely that the people on whom their stun field doesn't work will be murdered without being even given another chance. That means they murder people who's only crimes are to be there and being resistant to their weapon. Why should the federation tolerate such a permanent threat to innocent passersby? Unless they are morally corrupt cowards that is, who are unwilling to fight for their principles.

I'll say if you have the pretense of maintaining peace in your corner of the Galaxy, you can't tolerate such people, so you must either control them or failing that, destroy them.

 

[Ghrakh]

I'll say if you have the pretense of maintaining peace in your corner of the Galaxy, you can't tolerate such people, so you must either control them or failing that, destroy them.

Or commit to avoiding them, which is what happened.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I'll say if you have the pretense of maintaining peace in your corner of the Galaxy, you can't tolerate such people, so you must either control them or failing that, destroy them.

Or commit to avoiding them, which is what happened.

I disagree, they didn't commit to anything, they were offered an alternative and chose the least damaging one. But the thing is the threat remains. These people have no right to do what they do and someone should control them. If someone threatens anyone coming near (but not actually in) his house with a baseball bat I am certain the police would tell him to tone it down or worse. What they're doing on a Galactic level is a thousand times worse. Someone should put a stop to that, one way or the other.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And that jibes with the Prime Directive...how, exactly?

 

[Ghrakh]

I disagree, they didn't commit to anything, they were offered an alternative and chose the least damaging one. But the thing is the threat remains.

Picard put out a hazard advisory at the end.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

^ And that jibes with the Prime Directive...how, exactly?

The Prime directive is about people minding their own business, not about people being the muggers of the Galaxy and threatening people at random, I believe in that case it is Starfleet duty to put a stop to it.

 

[Ghrakh]

^ And that jibes with the Prime Directive...how, exactly?

The Prime directive is about people minding their own business, not about people being the muggers of the Galaxy and threatening people at random, I believe in that case it is Starfleet duty to put a stop to it.

Well, the best way to survive a knife fight is to never get in one.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

^ And that jibes with the Prime Directive...how, exactly?

The Prime directive is about people minding their own business, not about people being the muggers of the Galaxy and threatening people at random, I believe in that case it is Starfleet duty to put a stop to it.

Well, the best way to survive a knife fight is to never get in one.

My signature is actually meant as sarcasm...

 

[Makarov]

The threat of destruction and plan to erase the crew memories only came about due to Data remaining conscious. That is not their usual M.O.

That still makes them bad guys for knocking people unconscious. That's like saying "those robbers usually don't murder people, they just steal. Unless you wake up while they're in the house, then they murder you. But that's not their M.O.!"

And they didn't really commit to avoiding them. They had their memories wiped at gunpoint. Someone down the line will encounter the very same situation.

Short of wiping them out Starfleet should drop a moral lesson on them, which they do in a lot of episodes. Picard is like... disturbingly satisfied about the outcome of this episode without even saying one harsh word about them basically attacking his own crew. But it's really just because the episode is focued on the puzzle aspect rather than getting into the motivations very much.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Whatever grievances the Federation might have against the Paxans - what would you suggest? An attack would be out of the question, of course, as the Paxans' technology is obviously superior and they would slaughter any attacking force.

As for a "moral lesson": why would the Paxans care? As they themselves might point out, they have pretty much the absolute right to run their own territory however they feel like. Technically speaking, what right does anyone else have to tell them otherwise? Sovereignty must be respected, in the absence of an immediate threat (and the Paxans are not a threat to those who don't violate their territory - if you don't cross their borders, they don't care about you).

Look, I'm not saying that the Paxans are right in doing what they do. I'm sure most of us would rather that they didn't. But in the end, how can anyone else force them to do otherwise? Attacks would be quickly repelled and "talking it out" would be dismissed (the Paxan in this episode did not appear to be receptive to such comments). So what is there left to do?

The only thing I can think of is, count your blessings that the Paxans really don't destroy passing ships outright. Thank your lucky stars, so to speak. Capitalize on their goodwill, and leave well enough alone.

 

[Makarov]

As for a "moral lesson": why would the Paxans care? As they themselves might point out, they have pretty much the absolute right to run their own territory however they feel like. Technically speaking, what right does anyone else have to tell them otherwise?

You can say the exact same for pretty much every episode where they drop some moral lessons on an alien culture. Riker in Outcast. That planet with rogue veteran soldiers. Picard putting those aliens that trapped him in a force field just to "show them what it's like."

Fact is whenever the crew is attacked by an alien culture they usually drop a moral lesson on them. This is no different really. They have doomed maybe hundreds/thousands of people who will eventually get into a jam with this race by not acting.

Data revealing the entire story to the crew after getting away from the aliens would be one option. Then the federation could decide what to do and not get caught with their pants down. The other option would be to convince them that what they're doing is wrong, which would take up the whole episode probably.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As for a "moral lesson": why would the Paxans care? As they themselves might point out, they have pretty much the absolute right to run their own territory however they feel like. Technically speaking, what right does anyone else have to tell them otherwise?

You can say the exact same for pretty much every episode where they drop some moral lessons on an alien culture. Riker in Outcast. That planet with rogue veteran soldiers. Picard putting those aliens that trapped him in a force field just to "show them what it's like."

Perhaps, but in most of those instances, the crew has a realistic chance of attempting to sway the other party to their point of view. The Paxans could slaughter the crew with a mere thought, so there is literally no reason (from their point of view) to listen.

 

[Makarov]

Good point, but how many times does Picard tell Q to screw off when he could easily snap humanity out of existence? They don't comply with Q just because he has infinite power, they pretty much argue with him all the time. And Q is probably far superior to the beings they faced in this episode.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It seems clear that Q has a special relationship with Picard - even though Q *could* wipe out Picard with a word, this would not actually happen, as Q and Picard have a unique kind of antagonism, they like 'playing' off of each other. I think Picard is smart enough to know that Q enjoys baiting him and wouldn't kill him outright.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

...
The only thing I can think of is, count your blessings that the Paxans really don't destroy passing ships outright. Thank your lucky stars, so to speak. Capitalize on their goodwill, and leave well enough alone.

That's not Picard's MO. Take Q for example he could do much worse than the paxans with much less effort. If we follow your logic Picard should be kissing his boots (I am trying to be clean here) and groveling each time he sees him. Yet that is not what Picard does, quite the contrary. Why should he be more submissive to beings that don't hold a candle to Q in powerfulness?

Plus the paxans represent a permanent threat to innocent people that happen to go through what they decreed as their territory. That's not acceptable. It's one thing to put warning signs and attack people who deliberately violate those signs and it's quite another to attack people when they aren't aware of any wrong doing. That's the behavior of thugs and criminals. And it shoudln't be tolerated.

 

[Makarov]

I would like to see a Borg vs. Paxans conflict... if Data saw past their ruse, I imagine the Borg would somehow as well. Then again, humans are constantly walking around inside Borg ships hardly noticed, so maybe they aren't observant enough.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Plus the paxans represent a permanent threat to innocent people that happen to go through what they decreed as their territory. That's not acceptable. It's one thing to put warning signs and attack people who deliberately violate those signs and it's quite another to attack people when they aren't aware of any wrong doing. That's the behavior of thugs and criminals. And it shoudln't be tolerated.

Since the most that the Paxans usually do is simply move ships out of their territory (without destroying them), I'm not really seeing the 'threat' as such.

 

[Tosk]

The choice they've given the crew TWICE is either to agree to a collective mind rape or be annihilated. You can't deny that, can you?

I don't need to deny it. It was Picard who suggested erasing their short-term memories.

How many times in your opinion should someone be guilty of rape before you call him a rapist?

Once. But the Paxans didn't rape anybody so the question is irrelevant.

Plus we don't know how many of these "exceptions" to their MO they've effected before.

This is the first one, as implied in the episode. Data stays awake because he is a technology they are unfamiliar with.

The Paxans are actually exceedingly reasonable. They are xenophobic isolationists who terraformed a planet specifically to stay away from other people. They engineered a safe "trap" which they use to move people along who get too close. They accept an alternative to destruction when that doesn't work. (The wipe that Picard suggests.) They accept it as an alternative a second time when that doesn't work. AND they take the word of an alien when he orders an artificial lifeform never to reveal his knowledge of them.

Xenophobic isolationists quickly accept the spoken promise of an alien to keep their secret and let them go on their way.

 

[Makarov]

If humans were knocking out Vulcans and moving them around, with murder as the backup plan, just to keep Earth a secret, there would be no one defending it. We would be villains.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

If humans were knocking out Vulcans and moving them around, with murder as the backup plan, just to keep Earth a secret, there would be no one defending it. We would be villains.

They're only villains if the plot du jour demands it otherwise they are heroes. It wouldn't be the first time that ST would contradict itself. For example: Janeway Sacrifices Tuvix life to "save" Tuvok's and Neelix, while Sisko refuses to let Kira give up her life to save 8000 people! If that's not violently contradictory then I don't know what is.