Anybody remember "Gargoyles"?

[_C_]

Man, the 90's were a great time. I think Gargoyles was way ahead of its time. It was dark, and some of the storylines really touched on adult issues. Like the episode "Deadly Force" where Broadway accidentally shot Elisa while playing with her gun. What a great way to show kids how guns are dangerous.

So, does anybody else remember this cartoon?

 

[Kestra]

Yes, it's up there with Batman as one of my all-time favorites.

 

[Takeru]

Of course I remember it, it was and still is one of my favourite 90s cartoons, I have the DVDs and have not given up hope that Disney will release the second half of the second season.
I also bought the official continuation comics written by Greg Weisman, they were great, I was disappointed the series ended after 12 issues and the Bad Guys spin-off after only 6, but it was great to get some new adventures and it was great having thr Gargoyled back in the castle living with Xanatos and Fox (I kow that technically happened in season 3 of the cartoon, but thatseason sucked and the comics ignored it, so I will pretend the cartoon ended after season 2).

My favorite characters were Demona and MacBeth, both villains but they were so interesting and layered. Despite all the bad things she did I always felt bad for Demona, she lived for a thousand years and was hunted, hated and saw more than one of her clans be destroyed. Of course some (but not all) of it was her own fault or consequences of her actions but even if she had tried to live in peace she still would have been a monster in the eyes of most humans, that's why I give her a little bit more slack than MacBeth, while I did like him his constant need for revenge was a little pathetic, I thought more than once that he should get over it, unlike Demona he could have lived a peaceful live pretty easily if he had chosen to do so.

 

[Mr Light]

Gargoyles was one of the greatest animated series ever! That said, I recently rewatched it, and it didn't hold up as well as I remembered. A lot more silly than I remembered.

 

[Vendikarr]

Gargoyles was one of the greatest animated series ever! That said, I recently rewatched it, and it didn't hold up as well as I remembered. A lot more silly than I remembered.

You must have seen the third season. Go back and watch the first season and your faith will be restored.

 

[The Wormhole]

I do have very vague childhood memories of it. It was pretty damn good.

Of course, one has to point out that a good deal of Star Trek actors ended up doing voice work on the show. Hell, Xanatos was even drawn to resemble Jonathan Frakes.

 

[Booji]

I just finished a rewatch of Gargoyles a couple months ago. Excellent show, and definitely as good as I remember. One thing I forgot was how each ep more or less led right into the next episode and there were very few standalones. Very good voice cast as well. I would love to see live action version.

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

I have vague memories of it as a kid, but never really watched it. However, after falling in love with another Greg Weisman series, Spectacular Spider-Man, I watched all of it about a year ago and I now think it's easily one of the best Western Animation series ever made. It's got pretty much everything I would want in an action-adventure series for kids; great characters, complex characterization, reoccurring plots and arcs, and a refusal to talk down to its audience.

My only real complaints are the Avalon World Tour, which starts off interesting but goes on for WAAAY too long, and of course, Season 3, aka The Goliath Chronicles, where Weisman got Dan Harmon'd. End the series with the Hunter Moon 3-parter and you're golden.

Also, Frakes and Siritis are so much better as Xanatos and Demona than Riker and Troi it's not even funny.

 

[Venardhi]

How it hasn't been turned into a movie yet is beyond reasoning.

 

[Christopher]

How it hasn't been turned into a movie yet is beyond reasoning.

I was disappointed it wasn't made into a movie at the time, since so many of the cast members could've easily played the same characters in live action. Frakes could've been Xanatos, Salli Richardson could've been Elisa, Tom Wilson could've been Matt, Marina Sirtis could've been human-form Demona, Tim Curry could've been Sevarius, etc.

 

[Venardhi]

We all know that wouldn't have happened either way. At least now the technology exists to do them justice.

 

[Christopher]

We all know that wouldn't have happened either way. At least now the technology exists to do them justice.

You're misremembering the chronology. Gargoyles premiered in 1994, a year after Jurassic Park came out, and only a few years after the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies and the Dinosaurs sitcom with their elaborate animatronic lead characters created by the Henson Studios. Any Gargoyles feature film would've probably come along in '96 or later, at which point the animatronic and CG technology would've been more than up to the challenge of creating convincing Gargoyles.

 

[Admiral2]

Yes, it's up there with Batman as one of my all-time favorites.

Ditto. A Disney cartoon that wasn't about cute talking animals for once.

 

[Redfern]

Unless you count Maggie Reed and the other genetically engineered feline gargoyles like Elisa's brother.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Hound of UIster]

My only real complaints are the Avalon World Tour, which starts off interesting but goes on for WAAAY too long .

The problem with the World Tour was that it was intended as a serious expansion of the Gargoyles Shared Universe. If you have been to Weisman's blog, he talks about how Eisner wanted his own fictional universe like Marvel/DC. Gargoyles was intended as the cornerstone for that. They had large unrealized plans for King Arthur, the New Olympians, the Phoenix Gate and the Illuminati.

 

[Venardhi]

We all know that wouldn't have happened either way. At least now the technology exists to do them justice.

You're misremembering the chronology. Gargoyles premiered in 1994, a year after Jurassic Park came out, and only a few years after the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies and the Dinosaurs sitcom with their elaborate animatronic lead characters created by the Henson Studios. Any Gargoyles feature film would've probably come along in '96 or later, at which point the animatronic and CG technology would've been more than up to the challenge of creating convincing Gargoyles.

Not at all, I simply disagree that it would have done them justice. Compare Gollum, Caesar, Davy Jones and the latest Hulk to the CG characters in Episode I or Blawp and the monster Dr. Smith from Lost in Space, which are the only notable computer-generated 'performances' I can think of that came out of the 90s. Suits may have worked, but I can't imagine them being any more convincing.

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

My only real complaints are the Avalon World Tour, which starts off interesting but goes on for WAAAY too long .

The problem with the World Tour was that it was intended as a serious expansion of the Gargoyles Shared Universe. If you have been to Weisman's blog, he talks about how Eisner wanted his own fictional universe like Marvel/DC. Gargoyles was intended as the cornerstone for that. They had large unrealized plans for King Arthur, the New Olympians, the Phoenix Gate and the Illuminati.

Yeah, I know this. I read the blogs he posted about each episode and all his various plans for like 12 unrealized spin-offs. I also recognize that he was told they got a 52 episode order for the second season (while preparing for 13-22) and the Avalon World Tour took care of a big chunk of that.

None of that changes the fact that by the end, the Avalon World Tour became very, very tiring. It got to the point where I was rolling my eyes and saying, "What mythological god is going to meet a member of the Pack or Servius or whoever THIS week?" and it got to that point like 10 eps before the World Tour was over.

It was definitely a good idea and I'm glad we got it, but it was 20-or-so episodes, which was way, way too many.

 

[Christopher]

Not at all, I simply disagree that it would have done them justice. Compare Gollum, Caesar, Davy Jones and the latest Hulk to the CG characters in Episode I or Blawp and the monster Dr. Smith from Lost in Space, which are the only notable computer-generated 'performances' I can think of that came out of the 90s. Suits may have worked, but I can't imagine them being any more convincing.

You're still thinking anachronistically, in 21st-century terms. I'm talking about a hypothetical movie from the mid-'90s, so I'm not talking about using CGI for creating performance. I'm talking about using animatronics and prosthetics for the gargoyle performances -- most likely actors/stuntmen in heavy prosthetics -- with CGI being used only for gliding shots and the like. That should have been clear from my references to the Turtles movies and Dinosaurs.

As for animatronics, they could be quite convincing if done by a top-notch studio like Henson or Stan Winston. Remember, most of the dinosaur shots that made Jurassic Park so convincing were actually animatronics by Winston's studio, with CGI used only for full-length shots of dinosaurs walking, running, etc. The state of the art of animatronics was very high at the time we're talking about, so a big-budget movie could certainly have used them convincingly. And Disney would've certainly been able to afford hiring the best.

But let's think about the specific Gargoyles. Most of them had basically human faces. Goliath, Demona, and Hudson could easily have been played by actors in Star Trek-like prosthetics -- Sirtis and Asner could've easily played their own characters, and maybe Keith David could've played Goliath if the costume had increased his height and musculature somewhat. The Trio are a bit trickier, but Broadway and Lex could've been redesigned with somewhat more human faces (though they would've had to cast a pretty small actor as Lex); Brooklyn's the only one who really would've required an animatronic face. And Bronx would've had to be a mix of animatronics in close-up and CG in walking/fighting scenes. And the wings could be simply part of the costume when folded; CG would only be needed when the wings unfurled or when the gargoyles took to the air.

 

[Venardhi]

You make a compelling argument, but I remain skeptical.

 

[gblews]

Whenever I hear anything about Gargoyles, I think about my little girl. She loved the show dearly when she was a kid. Actually she still does love the show though at 27, she's not so lttle anymore.