Alice Eve's controversial underwear shot (STID)

[Balok's Decoy]

We didn't see her boobs. We saw her abs, for about 2 seconds.

"Missed it by 'this' much." -Maxwell Smart

Seriously, I've seen more gratuitous scenes in primetime TV.

I mean, I don't see the value in quibbling about what we did or didn't see. We see her in her underwear. And as I said in a previous comment, my problem isn't whether or not it was gratuitous -- my problem is with the way the character is portrayed and treated as a female character by including that scene at all. I'm not pulling this out of thin air -- it's a problem that exists across media, in countless films and tv shows. Whether it's explicit isn't the point.

 

[Smellmet]

I don't think any of that "hey, remember Kirk being a ladies man?" stuff is necessary. Quite frankly it's not even all that accurate to TOS -- it's just how people remember TOS. Pretty much every woman that Kirk had a relationship with in TOS, no matter how brief, was someone he genuinely cared about. I mean, he didn't even fool around with any "green women" as the old joke goes. There was an Orion dancer in "Wolf in the Fold" who he just observed, and then Marta in "Whom Gods Destroy" that Kirk didn't show any interest in. I really don't think Kirk deserves that reputation. Now, Riker on the other hand...

I agree. I mean, he got fired into a couple of women, but he's certainly no 007. It's a bit of a falsehood to describe Kirk in this way really.

 

[Nyotarules]

If the scene was cut from the movie it would neither improve or make the movie worse, so it was a poor scene IMO and I think the producers realise it.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

If the scene was cut from the movie it would neither improve or make the movie worse, so it was a poor scene IMO and I think the producers realise it.

That's true. Robert Orci, in his interview on Mission Log, talks about how he did not like that scene, didn't want it there, and it was Abrams' decision. Of course, we're only hearing one side of the story, but yeah, Orci has said he wished it weren't included.

 

[urbandefault]

I mean, I don't see the value in quibbling about what we did or didn't see. We see her in her underwear. And as I said in a previous comment, my problem isn't whether or not it was gratuitous -- my problem is with the way the character is portrayed and treated as a female character by including that scene at all. I'm not pulling this out of thin air -- it's a problem that exists across media, in countless films and tv shows. Whether it's explicit isn't the point.

You're the one who said we saw her boobs.

Alice Eve obviously didn't have a problem with the scene, and as far as I know none of the other women who have worn skimpy Trek outfits over the last 50 years have complained either. It's just a handful of fans who have a problem.

Pretty much like everything else that gets picked to pieces over and over and over.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

You're the one who said we saw her boobs.

Alice Eve obviously didn't have a problem with the scene, and as far as I know none of the other women who have worn skimpy Trek outfits over the last 50 years have complained either. It's just a handful of fans who have a problem.

Pretty much like everything else that gets picked to pieces over and over and over.

I think it wouldn't be very Trekkie to hold my tongue when I find a scene in Trek is violating the evolved perspectives about gender that the franchise claims it espouses. That bold, optimistic future where we still treat women as sexual objects for male consumption? I do believe that the majority of the time, Star Trek gets it right. So yeah, I'm going to say something when it doesn't, because in Trek it really stands out. And it irks me, because Trek oughta know better.

Trekkies debate minutiae about all kinds of things, from ship design to warp technology, but when it comes to gender, we're nitpicking? Hardly.

 

[Tenacity]

There was an Orion dancer in "Wolf in the Fold"

The girl that Scotty ultimately leaves with? She wasn't an Orion, she was a local woman.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

The girl that Scotty ultimately leaves with? She wasn't an Orion, she was a local woman.

Oh man, I think I've confused the beginning of Wolf in the Fold with The Cage. I could've sworn the dancer in WitF was Orion. My mistake!

 

[donners22]

Not nearly as cringe worthy as much of the sexuality in the TV shows, particularly TOS and Enterprise.

Could have done without it, but hardly something to make a fuss about.

 

[Timewalker]

It's been 6+ years. Now that everybody has had the chance to cool off, what do you really think about it?

I thought it was ridiculous before, and I still think it's ridiculous.

Also the fact she seemed to leave her body in display almost during the scene. If she was that bothered she would have covered up!

It would have been less ridiculous - and hypocritical - if she hadn't just stood there and posed for him while telling him not to look.

 

[Tenacity]

If she hadn't "posed" and instead Kirk glanced over his shoulder and we briefly see her in the process of changing and the camera see her in the same state of undress we did see her in, the movie would still have it's (un-necessary) underwear scene, but it wouldn't be as weird.

 

[Spot261]

I'd rather we didn't rely on anyone being eye candy to make the franchise cool. Yes TOS did it but hopefully we've come to see more value in ST than sexy actors/actresses showing us their bodies.

We've seen Carol Marcus in a bra, we've seen Kirk in his underpants. I'd be just as happy without having seen either.

Nay for me

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek has never been very evolved where women are concerned. Without counting TOS (which was horrendous), Troi never dressed in uniform and wore outfits that showed off here assets. When they finally put her in a uniform, it was a catsuit with a collar. The Beverly Crusher character was described as having the walk of a striptease queen in the TNG writer's guide. They put Visitor, Ryan and Blalock all in catsuits.

Those twenty seconds from Into Darkness are no where near the top of Trek's sins against women.

 

[Neumann]

Honestly I loved it, and found Alice godly. Now moving on from that, I believe that those uniforms were meant to portray an actual TOS uniform below it, or that is what those clear looking triangles were trying to emulate. If you think about that, the uniforms lose their meaning with that scene.

 

[The Wormhole]

think it wouldn't be very Trekkie to hold my tongue when I find a scene in Trek is violating the evolved perspectives about gender that the franchise claims it espouses. That bold, optimistic future where we still treat women as sexual objects for male consumption? I do believe that the majority of the time, Star Trek gets it right.

WTF? Star Trek has been treating women as sexual objects throughout its 50 year history. TOS is a haven of T&A, and TMP's female lead emits hormones which makes her so sexually irresistible to men she's required to swear an oath of celibacy before she can serve. In the 24th century shows female officers almost always wear more formfitting uniforms than the males, with the exceptions being the TNG uniforms from seasons 1 and 2 (formfitting for everyone) and the DS9/Voyager uniforms (not formfitting for anyone). Not to mention every single of the series from TNG onward has had a female lead wearing a catsuit, even if DS9 and Voyager waited until the fourth season in that regard.

Now, I'm not trying to defend treating women as objects, and you're more than free to not like it. But you are deluding yourself if you truly think Star Trek never did this prior to STID. Granted, the Alice Eve underwear scene is pointless, and it is sexist they left it in and deleted the Cumberbatch nude scene on the grounds that it was pointless, but let's not pretend this is a first for the Trek franchise at all.

 

[Amaris]

WTF? Star Trek has been treating women as sexual objects throughout its 50 year history. TOS is a haven of T&A, and TMP's female lead emits hormones which makes her so sexually irresistible to men she's required to swear an oath of celibacy before she can serve. In the 24th century shows female officers almost always wear more formfitting uniforms than the males, with the exceptions being the TNG uniforms from seasons 1 and 2 (formfitting for everyone) and the DS9/Voyager uniforms (not formfitting for anyone). Not to mention every single of the series from TNG onward has had a female lead wearing a catsuit, even if DS9 and Voyager waited until the fourth season in that regard.

Now, I'm not trying to defend treating women as objects, and you're more than free to not like it. But you are deluding yourself if you truly think Star Trek never did this prior to STID. Granted, the Alice Eve underwear scene is pointless, and it is sexist they left it in and deleted the Cumberbatch nude scene on the grounds that it was pointless, but let's not pretend this is a first for the Trek franchise at all.

I didn't mind the Alice Eve shot, but then again I also wanted the Cumberbatch shower scene left in.

That being said, yeah, Trek has a strong history of sexism all the way back to the very beginning, lest we forget "The Man Trap". Hell, in TNG, the supposedly evolved Trek series, the camera shots for Deanna Troi were far more leering than for the male cast members, plus the whole one piece form fit purple uniform which matched no other uniform design on the ship. In DS9, you had the Intendant playing to (nearly) every young boy and old man's fantasy, VOY had 7 of 9 in the catsuit, ENT had T'Pol in her catsuit, and also the decon scenes, and that's just off the top of my head. This is nothing new, nothing new at all.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

WTF? Star Trek has been treating women as sexual objects throughout its 50 year history. TOS is a haven of T&A, and TMP's female lead emits hormones which makes her so sexually irresistible to men she's required to swear an oath of celibacy before she can serve. In the 24th century shows female officers almost always wear more formfitting uniforms than the males, with the exceptions being the TNG uniforms from seasons 1 and 2 (formfitting for everyone) and the DS9/Voyager uniforms (not formfitting for anyone). Not to mention every single of the series from TNG onward has had a female lead wearing a catsuit, even if DS9 and Voyager waited until the fourth season in that regard.

Now, I'm not trying to defend treating women as objects, and you're more than free to not like it. But you are deluding yourself if you truly think Star Trek never did this prior to STID. Granted, the Alice Eve underwear scene is pointless, and it is sexist they left it in and deleted the Cumberbatch nude scene on the grounds that it was pointless, but let's not pretend this is a first for the Trek franchise at all.

I'm not saying it has never happened. This thread isn't about sexism in Star Trek, it's specifically about one scene in STID. I was responding to that. And that doesn't negate the fact that Trek ostensibly promotes evolved sensibilities about feminism and gender. They often get it right, sometimes they screw up. I really do not see how my opinion could be interpreted as controversial.

 

[The Wormhole]

And that doesn't negate the fact that Trek ostensibly promotes evolved sensibilities about feminism and gender. They often get it right, sometimes they screw up.

More like always screw it up. I'm reasonably certain if we sat down and drew up a list of times Star Trek was blatantly sexist and compared it to times they "got it right" regarding how they depicted women, the blatantly sexist list would be the much longer one.

In DS9, you had the Intendant playing to (nearly) every young boy and old man's fantasy,

I was only thinking of the Prime Universe. You go to the Mirror Universe, and any claim against there being sexism just deflates. As you say, Intendant Kira pretty sums everything up. Then there's also the fact that by the end of DS9's MU episodes, every woman was either lesbian or bisexual. The MU TOS and Enterprise had women in very revealing uniforms, and pretty much every female officer in the MU was prostituting herself to higher ranking men.

Does anyone still think Alice Eve in her underwear is anything unique?

 

[Tosk]

I don't care about gratuitous underwear shots. Do 'em or don't, whatever.

I only care when scenes are badly written and poorly acted....which that one was.

 

[jamestyler]

I honestly thought is was just a moment leading to something more. But suddenly it became another thing to point fingers about until there was an apology. I didn't see a scene with someone posing for me, I saw pre-planning. I might be wrong, and I'll never know if I am or not because I doubt Orci & Co will feel the need to tell anyone But....

Kirk was shown to be immature and those around him enabled that by falling for his shit. Marcus was, as everyone here knows, the future Prime universe love interest of Kirk at some stage. So it stood to reason this was to be the roots of - or at the every least, a hint of - that romantic relationship.

He couldn't resist the immature nonsense in that moment (which as said, made sense in context - you can't stick a jumpsuit over a dress!) and instead of falling for his 'charms', Marcus pretty much told him to piss off and so begins the adventure of becoming a better person to prove his worth, just like a billion romantic comedies since the dawn of time.

What I saw was the first step of a larger story. Not a very well constructed one, and leading to no more than the usual average nonsense. But it made sense. It's a quick way to begin that relationship, to give Kirk an emotive reason to evolve into a better person and better captain - much like the matured Kirk we see in Beyond.

.....until someone hit the panic button. Then it became something to apologise for and freak out over. And alas, what could have been a very mediocre subplot turned into Alice Eve being taking off the priority casting list and Carol never being seen again.

The scene itself wasn't anything special. Nor was it something to panic over. It was a minor point to what felt like the beginnings of a minor plot that was overshadowed by negativity.