A beautiful ship...

[Herkimer Jitty]

Only too true

I didn't find any other images/views of the ship Lennier1 linked to, but I did find a larger one:

http://img801.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/09/23/tahoeclass-4byljf3j2.png

John Eaves really needs a web-site, where he can show us more of his work.

It looks like a squished Intrepid with NX-01 fiddly bits on it, and sharp pointy bits for no particular reason other than "to look cool".
I do like the nacelle pylons however, though they'd work better on a lower, sleeker ship.

 

[ST-One]

...
BTW: Michael, do you have the rest of this image; the other views that are cut off?

Sorry, Thilo. Unfortunately that´s the only one I could find.
BTW: A ship like that would make a great friend for your DS5.

I'm actually thinking of giving this one a try.
But I'm always leaving my meshes unfinished... I hate my life...

 

[Jefferies]

Am I the only one who is thinking why do they have to do their own designs? The canon ships are just so much better. And it makes sense, if you centre multimillion dollar movies and tv-series on specific ships, you will invest a 1000 times more resources into making good designs, than a no-name gaming company trying to make a quick buck from the star trek licence. How deluded about their own ability can these people be? One of the great and legendary things about star trek is the ship designs. In a trek themed space sim this is what I would want to see and not random kitbashes someone cobbled up in ten minutes.

 

[Blip]

I couldn't agree more. This is exactly why I have no faith in John Eaves' "talents" as a designer - just look at that thing, it's FUGLY!!!

 

[ST-One]

Wow, you don't like the designs and Mr. Eaves becomes a talentless designer?

 

[Blip]

Wow, you don't like the designs and Mr. Eaves becomes a talentless designer?

If you want to put it that way, then yes when it comes to Trek. I think we can all be sure he's not the only such individual out there in any field. Are you saying I'm not entitled to my opinion of his artistic ability?

In my opinion, his designs are clunky and lack in any sense of visual appeal. His Enterprise-E was a blatant kluge of different elements already seen in the various other incarnations of Trek, and lacked originality. He may or may not have talents in other aspects of design, but when it comes to Trek I find his art to be just plain ugly - not to mention lacking in basic technical common-sense.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of the above, doesn't concern me ST-One. But it certainly isn't for you to tell me whether I should or shouldn't consider Eaves to be talented or otherwise.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Why not do all of these things?

'Cause it's ugleeee!

Because you lose internal volume and make production more complex, time-consuming, and resource-intensive.

And it's ugly.

On the other hand, Trek does provide a ready-made explanation in the idea that the shape of the ship affects the shape of the warp field. There's no other explanation I know of for some similar details on official designs, like the the undercut at the rear of the secondary hull.


Marian

The rough and over-greebled nature of the hull may indicate a Borg influence, such as the tech that future Janeway brought back in time with her in the finale. This is supposed to be far enough in the future that, quite possibly, Starfleet has successfully integrated non-malignant Borg regenerative tech in their ship designs, but the result being something less smooth and Borg-like in "aesthetics" - a word which, admittedly, should be used loosely when referring to any Borg-esque design.

 

[ST-One]

If you want to put it that way, then yes when it comes to Trek. I think we can all be sure he's not the only such individual out there in any field. Are you saying I'm not entitled to my opinion of his artistic ability?

Spare me this rhetorical question, will ya?

In my opinion, his designs are clunky and lack in any sense of visual appeal. His Enterprise-E was a blatant kluge of different elements already seen in the various other incarnations of Trek, and lacked originality.

Is the same true for Mr. Proberts Enterprise-D?

He may or may not have talents in other aspects of design, but when it comes to Trek I find his art to be just plain ugly - not to mention lacking in basic technical common-sense.

As much as I like the original Enterprise (the Refit is my favorite Trek-design) there is not much common-sense in the interconnecting hull.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of the above, doesn't concern me ST-One. But it certainly isn't for you to tell me whether I should or shouldn't consider Eaves to be talented or otherwise.

Whatever.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Is the same true for Mr. Proberts Enterprise-D?

The Enterprise-D doesn't look like any design to come before it. It defined 24th century design in the same way that the refitted Enterprise defined the TMP era. The Enterprise-E, while new looking, wasn't necessarily the freshest design. So what if it's a hodgepodge, I say to Blip. It's IMO, Eaves's best Federation design, since everything else he did was subsequently chunkier and chunkier. His alien ships on the other hand, are pretty darned cool, if a bit alike in aesthetic. Eaves's Federation style of thicker and heavier is more suited to the 22nd century anyways, as the stuff he's done for Enterprise shows. All opinion of course, and neither mine nor Blip's will end the world.

 

[Blip]

Is the same true for Mr. Proberts Enterprise-D?

Fixed your quote

The Enterprise-D doesn't look like any design to come before it. It defined 24th century design in the same way that the refitted Enterprise defined the TMP era.

Exactly.

The Enterprise-E, while new looking, wasn't necessarily the freshest design....It's IMO, Eaves's best Federation design, since everything else he did was subsequently chunkier and chunkier.

Actually, I don't mind most of his alien ships - his style was certainly more suited to Klingon designs than anything else though. And as for the E-E being his best Federation design, I'm regrettably forced to agree...

All opinion of course, and neither mine nor Blip's will end the world.

Exactly.

Spare me this rhetorical question, will ya?

Then kindly spare me the "holier-than-though" needling, because whatever your intent that's certainly how it came across.

Is the same true for Mr. Proberts Enterprise-D?

I think the comments I've made regarding the E-E should be fairly indicative that that isn't how I feel about the E-D in the slightest... not to mention Mr Probert's other works.

As much as I like the original Enterprise (the Refit is my favorite Trek-design) there is not much common-sense in the interconnecting hull.

Mine too, and I agree somewhat on the interhull connector - but then the Enterprises-A and -D never had ridiculously oversized impulse drives flushing directly into their bussard collectors...

Whatever.

A very eloquent and mature response... I must say, you have persuaded me wholeheartedly with the strength of your argument.

 

[ST-One]

I think the comments I've made regarding the E-E should be fairly indicative that that isn't how I feel about the E-D in the slightest... not to mention Mr Probert's other works.

Probert as well as Eaves both followed the same design parameters with the -D and the -E; they both look different but have the same structure.

The same is true for the Tahoe (which Lennier1 posted first).
I really like that ship as it is, but were I to build it in 3D I would change the design to be an intermediate step between the Constitution-Refit and the Ambassador-Class (you know, a bit bulkier, stronger neck, hangar-bay in the saucer-section). I also find the movie-era design-approach the most aesthetically pleasing.

Mine too, and I agree somewhat on the interhull connector - but then the Enterprises-A and -D never had ridiculously oversized impulse drives flushing directly into their bussard collectors...

Okay, I give you that. This really is one giant fuck-up, design-wise... but at leas consistent with Eaves: The Enterprise-B also grills her warp-nacelles with those added impulse-engines.

 

[Blip]

Probert as well as Eaves both followed the same design parameters with the -D and the -E; they both look different but have the same structure.

Ah but the devil is, as they say, in the details - or rather the aesthetic styles. Eaves' is overly cluttered with details and chunky/angular features (have you noticed how often he uses the same trapezoidal motif throughout his designs?), while Mr Probert tends to use compound curves and graceful flowing lines. There may be some things about the E-D I'd change, but IMO it's a damn site more pleasant to look at than its successor - and I always loved the pre-final concepts for it. OTOH, I only ever liked one of Eaves' Ent-E concept designs (the "Turk-E"!), and that's probably because he never got around to detailing it...

I would change the design to be an intermediate step between the Constitution-Refit and the Ambassador-Class (you know, a bit bulkier, stronger neck, hangar-bay in the saucer-section). I also find the movie-era design-approach the most aesthetically pleasing.

Did you ever look in on Jay-Ru's version of the USS Ingram on SFM? It's a great take of a more TMP-ized Excelsior. I'm hoping he'll return to finish it off at some point...

Okay, I give you that. This really is one giant fuck-up, design-wise... but at leas consistent with Eaves: The Enterprise-B also grills her warp-nacelles with those added impulse-engines.

Don't even get me started on what he did wrong with the E-B...

 

[USS Mariner]

I initally pegged Eaves as a talentless hack myself, untill looked at his other work.

His alien (non-Starfleet) designs, while a bit overcomplicated, are very classy, and he isn't at all bad when it comes to designing sets that match ship exteriors. The only places he gets into trouble are Starfleet and Borg designs, both of which suffer from advanced "Chunk O'-Chunk O'-Chip" Syndrome.


One of the most striking examples of this is his "Turk-E" design, which featured forward swept nacelle pylons. It's surface was relatively smooth, featuring a more pronounced division between hull and neck. It actually borrows a lot from the E-D, detail wise.

However, because of the fact that the pylons weren't thick enough or angled quite right, Zimmerman forced him to mutilate the Turk-E into the chunky, misshapen mess that we got for the E-E...

...instead of redrawing a few lines.

 

[jezor]

Don't forget, the article stated that players will have ship design *tools* at their disposals. While other players may be fanboyish, these tools may allow those of us (or you; my wife won't let me get this game!) without CGI skills to try out design ideas. {ProfJonathan}

 

[Blip]

One of the most striking examples of this is his "Turk-E" design, which featured forward swept nacelle pylons. It's surface was relatively smooth, featuring a more pronounced division between hull and neck. It actually borrows a lot from the E-D, detail wise.

However, because of the fact that the pylons weren't thick enough or angled quite right, Zimmerman forced him to mutilate the Turk-E into the chunky, misshapen mess that we got for the E-E...

Don't go thieving my phrase! I hereby copyright both "Turk-E" and "Turk-E-prise" in the name of... me.

Do you have any linkable evidence that Zimmerman was responsible for the end result? Based on Eaves' general tendency to "over-detail" all of his designs with redundant chunkiness, I'm pretty certain that the only reason he didn't do the same thing to this particular concept was that he wasn't given the opportunity...

 

[USS Mariner]

I came up with Turk-E when I submitted the scanned article to Hobbes on Federation Starship Datalink several years ago. It's min-E.

Here's the original article.

Compare the general aesthetic of the concept to what we ended up with. It's looks as if he would have kept to a smoother aesthetic had he been allowed to continue on that path.

 

[Blip]

Dammit!!

As I said before, this is an unfinished concept rather than a final concept, and already there are signs of his chunkier elements - it's not noticeable from above for example, but the portside and forward views clearly show the same stepped saucer profile that we ended up with. Given the chance, I expect he would have fleshed out the rest of the hull in a similar fashion - especially taking into account his other Federation designs.