norway class systems

[Cmdr Sho]

i read form here: http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/norway.html
that the norway class vessel has 2 photon torpedo launchers under the main deflector... on this vessel the deflector looks like it is close to the launchers... would that possibly cause conflict with the dish and a possible destruction of the ship?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Didn't cause any problems with the main deflector on the Intrepid or the aux deflector on the Nova. I don't see why that'd be a problem here.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, I wouldn't wonder a bit if the Norway had no photon torpedo launchers at all. After all, she's never shown firing any. Surely certain types of starship may make do without that system.

Similarly, the Steamrunner class has no torpedo tubes in evidence, and is never shown firing any torps. Perhaps both of these oddly shaped ships have a special role that does not normally include any ship-to-ship combat? The Steamrunner is shaped much like the amphibious attack ships of today - the ones with well decks astern. Perhaps she's an assault shuttle carrier? The Norway looks like she could haul something between her aft booms. Perhaps she carries planetary assault barges there?

Of course, the small Saber doesn't really show any torpedo launcher muzzles on her low-resolution CGI hull, either, yet that type has been shown spitting out torpedoes from somewhere near her bow. IIRC.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

OTOH, I wouldn't wonder a bit if the Norway had no photon torpedo launchers at all. After all, she's never shown firing any. Surely certain types of starship may make do without that system.

I agree. I've always thought of torpedoes as the "OMG holy crap WTFBBQ" weapon. Available only for military use, and able to nuke ships that aren't from major players (Such as the Feds, Roms, Klinks, Cardies, etc.) or aren't warships in one hit. Which is why weapons dealers selling torpedoes aren't looked upon too kindly by the Feds.

Surely a patrol ship, or a landing craft or a countermeasures ship or whatrever the heck uber-specialised type ship wouldn't need to carry weapons of mass barbeque-ing.

 

[Cmdr Sho]

according to my info, the norway class is a medium cruiser. from the site listed above has a source from ds9 tech manual. using common sense, would you think that mediums would have torps?

as for y it would cause problems... would the firing of the torps in that close of a proximity to the dish do something with the particle emmiter. like they said in fc, that fireing at or towards the particle emmiter could destroy half the ship?

as for voyagers torps... werent they located at least a deck and a half away from the dish? on the nova would be the same... but as for the norway it looks like the dish was built almost right on top of the torp launchers!!!

 

[Timo]

The DS9 Tech Manual entry on Norway might or might not be a bit more reliable than the silly entries on those kitbashes. At least with the bashes, we can tell the dimensions are all wrong...

For me personally, turning this intriguingly shaped vessel into something as mundane as "medium cruiser" is not the best way to go. Starfleet already has too many cruisers. I mean, the Norway even has what looks like back-and-forth-sliding nacelles, and the DS9 TM doesn't comment on that at all. Disappointing..

on the nova would be the same.

On the Nova, the bow torp launchers are practically touching the bow deflector - they are on the same deck. But that of course is just the auxiliary unit, so perhaps this makes all the difference?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

Hm. I showed them like this for the Norway class:

http://lcars24.com/schem24.html

And like this for the Steamrunner:

http://lcars24.com/schem16.html

I do remember at the time gathering up a lot of images of the Steamrunner class and finding what looked like torpedo launchers near the deflector. Maybe some were fanmade meshes or models. I don't remember now.

With the Norway I don't remember what evidence there was. With the Intepid class, you not only see the same sort of greebles but can clearly see torpedoes being launched from them now and again throughout VOY.

 

[JNG]

i read form here: http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/norway.html
that the norway class vessel has 2 photon torpedo launchers under the main deflector... on this vessel the deflector looks like it is close to the launchers... would that possibly cause conflict with the dish and a possible destruction of the ship?

Well, those are fan-authored specs, so there's no reason to expect to agree with all their conclusions. I would also point out that there are no evident phaser strips on the model, and this could point to a special-purpose ship of some kind, as some in this thread theorize.

However, it was shown to fire a phaser in the movie (just not from a strip), and it appears to be not only a good-sized starship not much smaller than Voyager, but also one sent in to attack the Borg cube. So probably, we should assign it some limited probe/torpedo launch capability at the minimum.

I would believe in a torpedo launcher, or pair of compact ones, somewhere in or around the forward hull inset. Said inset looks awfully busy:

There must be a phaser emitter in there somewhere, too, but this is no problem. There are plenty of greeblies to choose from, after all. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the torpedoes being that close to the deflector, as those systems are nudged up against one another on some other designs too. The business with the antiproton charge in ST: First Contact had to do with what the Borg were using it for, and besides, shooting it with a phaser is pretty different from launching controlled-flight missiles meters and meters away. On the Sovereign-class starship, the clearance between the quantum torpedoes and the captain's yacht looks really tight, but it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

There might be room for an aft torpedo launcher out back somewhere in the space between the nacelles, but that part of the model was not detailed.

Ah, the Norway-class starship: one of the most mysterious Starfleet designs we've glimpsed. Really, I thought it had quite a sleek look, especially in perspective.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I've been wondering about the ACTD specs... Never backed up with graphics. They describe some very cool-sounding bridge design layouts, and never show what they look like! :P

My view on the Norway has always been that the nacelles are variable geometry, being able to slide back on the rail-looking structures to accomodate a different warp field profile. Perhaps a predecessor to the Voyager-style water wings.

Mark

 

[Cmdr Sho]

So probably, we should assign it some limited probe/torpedo launch capability at the minimum.

if there is no cannon (or what ever it is called) evidence and only just assumming since it was sent in to fight the borg, then you could assumme that it has phaser strips because starfleet would not send or build a starship with just torps. then your other statment would not hold weight...

there are no evident phaser strips on the model

i am not argueing, i am just severly confused with these posts.... and i now see that the deflector is one deck abouve...

 

[JNG]

So probably, we should assign it some limited probe/torpedo launch capability at the minimum.

if there is no cannon (or what ever it is called) evidence and only just assumming since it was sent in to fight the borg, then you could assumme that it has phaser strips because starfleet would not send or build a starship with just torps. then your other statment would not hold weight...

there are no evident phaser strips on the model

That statement will "hold weight" by virtue of the fact that there are no phaser strips on the model. It doesn't have "just torps," either; as I already pointed out, it was seen firing a phaser beam in the movie. One or more of the details in the forward hull inset is a phaser emitter.

Now a torpedo launcher doesn't have nearly as much of a standardized detailing, and can just be a relatively small gap, meaning there's some other greeblies up front that could fill the bill; furthermore, probe launching would be important if the ship has any scientific duties at all, and scientific investigation is one of the primary missions of Starfleet. Hence I think it quite likely that the ship has this capability.

 

[Cmdr Sho]

i am sry. i miss read your above posts. so it has a phaser emiter and a torp launcher. does this mean that its firing arc is mainly forward?

and what kind of ship would the norway class be under?

 

[JNG]

^

We only got to see it fire forward. Since the model was not especially detailed, though, there could theoretically be other bits of equipment at points that received little surface detail. I guess it could have point phaser emitters at the rear tips of the nacelle pylons or something.

The absence of phaser strips when all of the other new ST: First Contact ships had them is notable, and does suggest, however we try to fill in the gaps, that this particular type of ship may not have the emphasis on defensive capability that most others its size seem to have.

This relates to the other question you asked about "what kind of ship." You pointed out that DS9 TM described it as a medium cruiser. For this book, the authors were selecting types from their list that first appeared in the TNG TM, so the potential categories for it were:

Scout
Surveyor
Tanker
Cargo Carrier
Cruiser
Explorer

The book further specifies when it comes to "cruiser," with Light, Medium and Heavy flavors in the mix.

Their choice of Medium Cruiser for the Norway-class starship seems to me a reasonable description based on its size (it's most likely somewhere over a half million tons). We can't absolutely rule out that it was intended to be a cargo ship or tanker or surveyor, but I find this unlikely, and I like to salvage what I can from the parts of the DS9 TM that are not obviously error-ridden.

Beyond that, we can only speculate. The unusual nacelle configuration and sleek, flattened appearance may have been intended to suggest it was built for speed. Now as odd as it is that there are no phaser strips, this seems to obey a design principle at work for the ship: the surface is unusually smooth and the bridge is set into the hull in such a way that it doesn't protrude, either. Then you have a lot of stuff that has been set into that forward hull inset, which as I mentioned is unusually detailed and busy; I like to think this was also done so as not to disturb "the flow."

As I hope others will share more ideas on what is up with this ship, here's what I'd say: it's a medium cruiser built for warp performance, with x-axis adjustable nacelle positioning that represented an evolutionary step towards the variable-geometry warp systems we saw on the Intrepid class. High stresses from the closely-fitting, unusually-shaped warp field sometimes act on the outer hull as a result, forcing compromises to be made regarding equipment that would typically project a bit outward from the hull (I can imagine that even a slight projection from the hull surface notably complicates efforts to reinforce it with a structural integrity field). Some of said equipment was mounted into the forward hull inset. Ships of this class have an impressive warp efficiency and top speed by the standards of the era in which they first appeared (I'd guess mid to late 2350s). Compared to a mythical average Starfleet ship of the line, ships of this class are somewhat better suited for emergency relief, courier, and other types of missions that leverage their speed, and somewhat less suited for missions with a high likelihood of Threat force encounters, though they are by no means defenseless. They were probably a limited run of ships and are likely to serve primarily within the Federation borders. Appalacia fought the Borg because all combat-capable ships within range were called upon to do so, of course.

Random and/or more speculative observations: there is some possibility this ship can land. I bet her impulse performance is solid, or the tradeoff of the limited weapons fire arc probably would have been deemed too great. Her narrow forward aspect not only makes her a little harder to hit with a beamed weapon or whatever at range, but also tightens up the shield bubble and allows it to be more efficient.

 

[hellsgate]

JNG: Thank you for that black-white front view!!!

 

[seekertwo]

Maybe the torpedoes fire off-center (say a 35-degree angle) to protect the emitter?....

 

[JNG]

JNG: Thank you for that black-white front view!!!

Let me know if you want some others.

 

[hellsgate]

JNG: The only other Trek Art item I'm ~seriously~ hunting for, is a (TNG Relaunch-era) Engineering LCARS / M.S.D. of a Loknar II-Class (Lt. Kevin Riley's U.S.S. Phobos).

 

[Cmdr Sho]

wow....

that was extremely detailed JNG... were do you get all your information from? i felt like i got a lesson out of that (that is good for me cause that is the kind of stuff i am looking for^^).... ty for the info...oh and what could you tell me on the akira class...???

 

[Timo]

I might argue for an alternate reason for the "smooth" look, besides warp dynamics..

..Namely, heavy armoring. Perhaps this ship is meant to tackle a powerful enemy head on, which is why its engines are hidden in frontal view, its features do not protrude, and there's very little in the way of portholes or lifeboat hatches or other weak spots on the hull from frontal angles.

A specialist anti-Borg vessel might fit that particular bill: she flies to point blank range, defying Borg fire, and penetrates the outer defenses. A banking maneuver then follows, exposing the heavy ventral weaponry; after a complete turn, the ship escapes.

However, I'd perhaps prefer to think in terms of planetary assault. In that application, the ship would fly as close to the target planet as possible, then release massive assault barges from the aft rails, and then readjust the warp engines to account for the departure of the barges.

Generally speaking, I wouldn't count the presence of this ship in an anti-Borg fleet as evidence that she's designed for anti-Borg. The Borg attacked Earth. Despite appearances in a couple of movies, Earth is the place where one would be the most likely to find a diverse collection of starships. Or perhaps Starfleet was massing planetary assault forces for the upcoming Dominion war, explaining why we suddenly saw ship types we had never seen before: they were only good for planetary assault (and indeed fared pretty badly against the Cube).

Timo Saloniemi