In that case, too bad they never realised that it was so simple before one of the two ships was destroyed (or even damaged). Then they probably still would have had the antimatter problem to solve, but traveling through the DQ with two ships probably would have been significantly safer (and they could have worried about reintegration later).
Garrett Wang
- Thread starter Athena28
- Start date
- Status
In that case, too bad they never realised that it was so simple before one of the two ships was destroyed (or even damaged). Then they probably still would have had the antimatter problem to solve, but traveling through the DQ with two ships probably would have been significantly safer (and they could have worried about reintegration later).
They couldn't move while both ships were still in existence. That's why Intact Ship Janeway was worried about Trashed Ship Janeway blowing up her ship, even before the Vidiians turned up.
_________
It's been mentioned in multiple places that PIC planned on having Harry show up in S3, as a captain, but budget prohibited it... however, nothing would have stopped them from mentioning him in passing. This suggests that Harry's final fate is still up in the air. And sadly, that the "Eternal Ensign" crowd could still get their way.
Nah. Garrett appears completely into the idea of reappearing, he's a good dude by all accounts and completely different than he was 20-28 years ago (to the extent he even did anything untoward back then, which I don't concede), he's very entrenched in the Trek world, Voyager is obviously extremely popular now (with damn good reason), and it almost happened
on a show almost exclusively devoted to tying up the stories of another cast.
No one on PIC S3 mentioned Tom, B'Elanna, Chakotay, Neelix or the Doctor either to my recollection. I didn't take that to mean anything.
Last edited:
Last edited:
I LOVE that video. Especially the very end.
No, I've got Krakatoa blazing in my right fist.There are folks who carry a torch; you - however - have The Great Chicago Fire square between your shoulder blades.
Plus it could have created some strange morbid comedic moments.
“Today we mourn the loss of Chakotay who died heroically…now somebody beam over duplicate Chakotay because he has bridge watch at 1200 hours”
…but back to Harry Kim for a moment and his rank…another counter argument (and I’m a fan of his but devil’s advocate) how would the Lt.s on board feel about people getting promoted to their rank. I mean, Janeway would have to promote herself to Admiral. Or have a ship full of Lts and Lt.Cmdrs. - presumably they all served and earned their promotions as well. Wouldn’t it be unfair to them relatively speaking?
What about their morale?
Promotions come more slowly at higher ranks. For the USN, five years at lieutenant and six at lieutenant commander is the norm. Ensigns are usually promoted after two, and sometimes earlier.
And in any case, Tom Paris was an ensign. He provided one and a half years of quality service, and was restored to lieutenant. Why shouldn't Harry be granted that same rank for six years of being "one of our best people"?
And they would have. If Janeway had paused a senior staff meeting, called Harry up to the front, stuck a pip on his uniform, and declared him promoted to lieutenant... I cannot imagine Tom or B'Elanna doing anything but congratulating him.
But if anyone deserves the promotion, it's you.
Janeway can make field promotions on her own say so, but there is a process for the promotion to be "real".
1. Quarterly Evaluation by the Councillor and XO,
1a. Reviewing recommendations from the section heads for promotions, demotions, and transfers.
2a. Interviewing staff recommend for promotion, demotion, and transfers.
3a. Write up Quarterly evaluation, present to Captain.
2. Captain reads, maybe amends the Quarterly Evaluation, rubber stamps it, and sends it off to Star Fleet Command.2a. Interviewing staff recommend for promotion, demotion, and transfers.
3a. Write up Quarterly evaluation, present to Captain.
3. Starfleet Command reads, considers, and proffers new orders for promotions, demotions and transfers, then sends them back to the ship.
4. Captain reads the new orders, and then acts like it's her idea to promote, demote and transfer every one that is promoted, demoted and transferred.
So?
All promotions and demotions and transfers on Voyager, in the Delta Quadrant, cut off from Starfleet Command, were field promotions or illegal promotions, demotions or transfers. All field promotions have to be ratified by Star Fleet Command "eventually" to be made legal.
Last edited:
Which could have been accomplished since they achieved monthly contact in late season 6. ("LIFE LINE")
Admittedly, @Guy Gardener is completely correct. Most of the promotions on TNG and DS9 probably occured that way, since neither of the two was out of comms range from Starfleet.
However, on Voyager, rank was at the captain's discretion. And Janeway made some eyebrow-raising choices: reactiving the commissions of an accused terrorist (Chakotay) and a convicted criminal (Paris). Elevating an academy dropout (B'Elanna) over a qualified officer. Offering commissions to several other accused terrorists (Seska, Ayala, others). Demoting several people to lower ranks. Compared to all that, giving a scheduled promotion to an officer who was already doing lieutenant level work would be a slam dunk.
Indeed. This action may regularly turn up on "Janeway's worst decisions" list, alongside Tuvix, helping the Borg, and shredding the timeline... but it wasn't really her doing at all. It was the people in charge of the show, who wanted to make the character look like a hapless buffoon. And sadly... it worked. "Poor, dumb Harry Kim" is a term I periodically see bandied about. It always bothers me when any bully wins out.
However, on Voyager, rank was at the captain's discretion. And Janeway made some eyebrow-raising choices: reactiving the commissions of an accused terrorist (Chakotay) and a convicted criminal (Paris). Elevating an academy dropout (B'Elanna) over a qualified officer. Offering commissions to several other accused terrorists (Seska, Ayala, others). Demoting several people to lower ranks. Compared to all that, giving a scheduled promotion to an officer who was already doing lieutenant level work would be a slam dunk.
Indeed. This action may regularly turn up on "Janeway's worst decisions" list, alongside Tuvix, helping the Borg, and shredding the timeline... but it wasn't really her doing at all. It was the people in charge of the show, who wanted to make the character look like a hapless buffoon. And sadly... it worked. "Poor, dumb Harry Kim" is a term I periodically see bandied about. It always bothers me when any bully wins out.
Provisional Rank Badges.
Janeway gave the made up Star Fleet officers made up, totally pretend rank.
Yup, contact was made, and if Janeway got into any trouble for her decisions, it was unnoticeable to the naked eye.
Captain Chakotay from the Before and After Timeline junked his provisional Rank badge, and found himself some pips, possibly off Janeway's dead body...
Did the rest of the Maquis get pips?
By this point, Captain Chakotay may have been in contact with Earth, since it was the equivalence of season 7, therefore his rank, and the rank of the other Maquis may have been ratified by Starfleet Command.
Janeway gave the made up Star Fleet officers made up, totally pretend rank.
Yup, contact was made, and if Janeway got into any trouble for her decisions, it was unnoticeable to the naked eye.
Captain Chakotay from the Before and After Timeline junked his provisional Rank badge, and found himself some pips, possibly off Janeway's dead body...
Did the rest of the Maquis get pips?
By this point, Captain Chakotay may have been in contact with Earth, since it was the equivalence of season 7, therefore his rank, and the rank of the other Maquis may have been ratified by Starfleet Command.
Last edited:
There was probably a tribunal when Voyager got home. Janeway had to do some heavy explaining.
However, there was probably no legal precedent for beings like Tuvix, so she would get a pass there.
The Borg never got the nanoprobes Janeway was offering. You dodged a bullet there, Kathryn.
The Equinox affair would probably have been an issue, but maybe Starfleet wanted it settled quietly.
And the timeline in Endgame was altered by an Admiral Janeway from a deleted timeline.
She had to fit them into the command structure somehow.
I would think that they would. With Chakotay as captain, he likely would have directed the Maquis to follow his lead. And if Neelix could trade his sofa suits for a uniform, the Maquis could certainly go to conventional rank insignia.
Hard to say. Remember that in this reality, the Year of Hell actually happened, and B'Elanna and Carey both died. So it's debatable whether the remaining engineering staff would have been able to get Voyager back to its previous top speed. And, they might not have been able to use the quantum slipstream drive, either. So in this timeline, Voyager might have been much farther away from home.
Plus they didn't have Seven, nor the 10,000 light year jump by Kes. (Which still needed some kind of explanation on how they crossed that distance in that short time... Kes did that before they reached Krenim space.)
Picard: Starfleet was founded to seek out new life. Well, there it sits.
There's graphics for a planet in Krenim space (in Year of Hell) that was reused in the season 6 episode Virtuoso. The foregone conclusion about this is that Krenim space was a lot bigger while Annorax was playing with time, or the Krenim Imperium used to be farther away.
Captain Chakotay who traversed Krenim space entirely MUST have passed the Virtuoso planet during what he would have considered season 4... Maybe?
The Borg had been cleared from the Delta Quardant, so although Captain Chakotay was close to where the Borg Transwarp Hub should have been, three seasons ahead of Janeway, it was not there.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
