Kirk and Ruth

[T'Girl]

In the episode "Shore Leave" Kirk encounters a recreation/android of his old girlfriend from his time at the academy, Ruth. It's implied that Ruth was a important person in Kirk's history. In the episode Ruth was played by actress Shirley Bonne, who was 32 years at the time the episode was shot.

The question I have is, was Ruth 32 at the time she and young Kirk had their relationship (an "older" woman)?

Or was Ruth approximately the same age as Kirk at the time, and the shore leave planet created a older Ruth who would be about the same age as Kirk was in the episode?

My take is that the shore leave planet scanned Kirk's thoughts of Ruth, and created a android based on his memories. And Ruth was a dozen plus years older than Kirk when they were originally together.

What say you?

.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I've always found Ruth to be quite lovely and have always been mildly curious as to what her story was. But this idea that she was an older woman, when Kirk got with her simply never occurred to me. Personally, I just see her being similar to Kirk's "Shore Leave" age as a convention, nothing more. That Ruth was probably a year or two younger than him, in fact. He'd snog anybody, really, but that's an interesting thought, that Ruth might be older and I'm not prepared to totally knock it.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Since the planet's systems are reading his mind, she may look the way he wants her to look rather than as she was back as a younger man? She is reflecting his emotionally growing up just as Finnigan looks older than a 22 year old college senior.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The question I have is, was Ruth 32 at the time she and young Kirk had their relationship (an "older" woman)?

Or was Ruth approximately the same age as Kirk at the time, and the shore leave planet created a older Ruth who would be about the same age as Kirk was in the episode?

While I don't think that Shirley Bonne was playing her actual age of 32, I think it's undeniable that there was an age gap between Ruth and Kirk. Practically the first thing Kirk says to "Ruth" on the Shore Leave planet is "You haven't aged... It's been fifteen years." So clearly Kirk is seeing Ruth just as he remembered her.

I think the real reason for this is that they probably realized that it might look creepy to have William Shatner making out with a 20-year-old, and cast an age-appropriate actress for Ruth (Yes, I know that Kirk's love interest in "Conscience of the King" was described as being 19, but the actress sure didn't look it. Appearances are everything.).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Since the planet's systems are reading his mind, she may look the way he wants her to look rather than as she was back as a younger man? She is reflecting his emotionally growing up just as Finnigan looks older than a 22 year old college senior.

And similarly, Finnegan says to Kirk, "I've got the edge. I'm still twenty years old. Look at you. You're an old man."

So what we're seeing is definitely what Finnegan looked like back in Kirk's Academy days. That's the only thing that makes sense, really. The planet was reconstructing them based off of Kirk's memories. How would Kirk recognize Finnegan and Ruth otherwise?

 

[Gov Kodos]

I've seen plenty of people after 20 years and had no trouble recognizing them though they were older. Seeing them unchanged after 20 years would be something that would be weird, though.

 

[Marsden]

In the episode "Shore Leave" Kirk encounters a recreation/android of his old girlfriend from his time at the academy, Ruth. It's implied that Ruth was a important person in Kirk's history. In the episode Ruth was played by actress Shirley Bonne, who was 32 years at the time the episode was shot.

The question I have is, was Ruth 32 at the time she and young Kirk had their relationship (an "older" woman)?

Or was Ruth approximately the same age as Kirk at the time, and the shore leave planet created a older Ruth who would be about the same age as Kirk was in the episode?

My take is that the shore leave planet scanned Kirk's thoughts of Ruth, and created a android based on his memories. And Ruth was a dozen plus years older than Kirk when they were originally together.

What say you?

.

Very logical. I agree.

One thing that really bothers me is how many people throw the "womanizer" or similar pejorative out so easily at Kirk, where I just don't see that at all. One problem is the character has been in many episodes written by many different writers and it's an easy starting point for drama, an old flame, sure why not, there's an old flame that's prosecuting him for negligence, and old flame that's watching him age prematurely over a week, there's one that has a son and didn't tell him, there's even one that a raving moonbat and just stole his body! I really make you think the guy has been around. But even having said all that, Kirk seems to me just a very passionate individual and when he finds something, a spark, say, with someone, he's in all the way, right away. Only then, his greatest passion, command in Starfleet, reasserts itself and pulls him away. So to sum up, not a womanizer who only uses women for his own needs, like and executive that made Star Trek, but someone that truly cares about the woman he's with until he's called away, or maybe they just realize that they aren't that compatible after all.

So Ruth may very well have been the first woman he was involved with.

 

[PCz911]

In the episode "Shore Leave" Kirk encounters a recreation/android of his old girlfriend from his time at the academy, Ruth. It's implied that Ruth was a important person in Kirk's history. In the episode Ruth was played by actress Shirley Bonne, who was 32 years at the time the episode was shot.

The question I have is, was Ruth 32 at the time she and young Kirk had their relationship (an "older" woman)?

Or was Ruth approximately the same age as Kirk at the time, and the shore leave planet created a older Ruth who would be about the same age as Kirk was in the episode?

My take is that the shore leave planet scanned Kirk's thoughts of Ruth, and created a android based on his memories. And Ruth was a dozen plus years older than Kirk when they were originally together.

What say you?

.

I believe that she was an older woman as he was an underclassman . With all due respect to the actress, never found her remotely attractive. So, in my mind, Kirk was attracted to her maturity/sophisticattion versus her physical appearance. Sorry. It's a bit rude of an opinion.

 

[scotpens]

I believe that she was an older woman as he was an underclassman . With all due respect to the actress, never found her remotely attractive. So, in my mind, Kirk was attracted to her maturity/sophisticattion versus her physical appearance. Sorry. It's a bit rude of an opinion.

Well, chacun à son goût and all that. But you really don't think Shirley Bonne was pretty?

I always wondered if she could pick up subspace radio signals with those earrings.

(I actually knew her way back in my Cub Scout days, pre-Star Trek. At the time I was only vaguely aware that she was an actress -- to us kids she was Mrs. Freemond.)

 

[T'Girl]

He'd snog anybody

Kirk (prime universe) was never the womanizer that some fans see him as, he would bed about three or four women a year.

.

 

[Timo]

...And usually either on a ruthless mission of distraction and exploitation, or then at gunpoint! While he almost always appeared extremely amused, I doubt we could argue he did it for the pleasure of conquest or physical satisfaction.

I'm all for Ruth being a decade older than Jim, as there is no contrary evidence on Kirk's preferences. Or evidence of any sort, really. When did Kirk have a choice, exactly? Between Vanna and Droxine in "Cloud Minders", perhaps, and Kirk's choice was neither. It was pretty rare for there to be multiple female characters (after one discounts Uhura whom Kirk for whatever reason doesn't treat as a playmate even when he apparently isn't completely averse to at least chatting with his attractive underlings at Christmas parties).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JimZipCode]

And similarly, Finnegan says to Kirk, "I've got the edge. I'm still twenty years old. Look at you. You're an old man."
So what we're seeing is definitely what Finnegan looked like back in Kirk's Academy days.

No way. Finnegan in Shore Leave looked like he was in his mid-30s. He looked older than Kirk!

Even when I was a child watching that episode, under age 10, I always assumed "Finnegan" was speaking figuratively. I thought then that it probably meant he had the energy & stamina & agility of a 20-yr-old – he was still 20 "under the hood" – because he sure as hell didn't look 20 years old.

If we use Finnegan as the yardstick, then the natural assumption is that the mechanisms of the Shore Leave planet "aged-up" Finnegan and Ruth, from their youthful appearance in Kirk's memory to something that would seem like they were still peers of his, rather than seeming 10 or 12 years younger. Which is actually a very subtle and thoughtful thing to do. Paradoxically, if their young selves jumped out and started running around with him, Kirk's innate reaction would not be to accept them as his peers, but to hold them at a distance. They would seem alien to him, an artifact from the past, not well-known and familiar.

Since the planet's systems are reading his mind, she may look the way he wants her to look rather than as she was back as a younger man? She is reflecting his emotionally growing up just as Finnigan looks older than a 22 year old college senior.

I've seen plenty of people after 20 years and had no trouble recognizing them though they were older. Seeing them unchanged after 20 years would be something that would be weird, though.

Exactly.

 

[Forbin]

I think the real reason for this is that they probably realized that it might look creepy to have William Shatner making out with a 20-year-old...

Why not? Barbara Anderson was 20 when they smooched in Conscience of the King.

 

[PCz911]

Well, chacun à son goût and all that. But you really don't think Shirley Bonne was pretty?

I always wondered if she could pick up subspace radio signals with those earrings.

(I actually knew her way back in my Cub Scout days, pre-Star Trek. At the time I was only vaguely aware that she was an actress -- to us kids she was Mrs. Freemond.)

Awesome that you knew her. But,uh, no...not my type. Don't find her attractive. Sorry.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

he sure as hell didn't look 20 years old.

Well, too bad. The episode explicitly tells us that's exactly what he was. Mark Lenard didn't look 200 years old as Sarek, either, but he was because that's what the script said. Chris Pine and Simon Pegg don't really look anything like William Shatner and James Doohan did in the 60s, but we know that they look the same as Kirk and Scotty because Leonard Nimoy's Spock recognizes them.

If we use Finnegan as the yardstick, then the natural assumption is that the mechanisms of the Shore Leave planet "aged-up" Finnegan and Ruth, from their youthful appearance in Kirk's memory to something that would seem like they were still peers of his, rather than seeming 10 or 12 years younger. Which is actually a very subtle and thoughtful thing to do.

And the exact opposite of what the episode tells us multiple times. Again, the dialogue is, "You haven't aged... It's been fifteen years."

That's what Ruth looked like during Kirk's Academy days. Deal with it.

 

[2takesfrakes]

But you really don't think Shirley Bonne was pretty?

She's sweet-looking ... the kind of girl you take home to mother.

Kirk (prime universe) was never the womanizer that some fans see him as, he would bed about three or four women a year.

True, enough. But there were a number of occasions, also, where he'd make-out with women, seemingly just to advance his own cause(s). Examples include: Sylvia the witchy woman, Shahna the drill thrall and Marta the Orion female.

 

[drt]

And the exact opposite of what the episode tells us multiple times. Again, the dialogue is, "You haven't aged... It's been fifteen years."

That's what Ruth looked like during Kirk's Academy days. Deal with it.

But then we're left with a Finnegan who looks years older than he's supposed to be. My assumption is that we're supposed to just imagine that the actress is playing a younger woman, same as Finnegan.

 

[johnnybear]

Kirk was supposed to be thirty four at the time of the episode and Ruth perhaps thirty when they were together! So Kirk was about twenty back then and in love with an older woman. Don't knock it till you've tried it! And I have!
JB

 

[Captain Rob]

^^ Yeah...Women can be nuts at any age.

Anyway. I Googled the actress and came up with alot of pictures of her out of her Star Trek makeup and hairstyle. And she was just beautiful. That Star Trek makeup looked like it was just troweled on.

 

[FormerLurker]

And Finnegan could well have looked like that at twenty or twenty-two. Some people just have an old face. They tried to get past it by casting an actor that had an apple-cheeked baby-face, but some viewers, like JimZipCode, can't see past the age of the actor to see what the characters are supposed to be seeing. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it can make it difficult on occasion to suspend one's disbelief.