Writing a Star Trek Alien Race Too Long

[Mojochi]

Has there ever been a race/culture written for Star Trek, that didn't get derailed, watered down, or otherwise ruined by it being featured for too long, & passed through too many writer's hands? I'm legitimately asking. I'm not an encyclopedia, So I imagine it's possible, but to me it seems like any of the most prominently featured got stymied eventually

For example, my opinion is that by the time Voyager was done with both The Borg & The Q, they had neutered the daylights out of them. TNG itself, had both invented & trainwrecked the Ferengi into pretty much a joke. A Klingon race built on honor, that's mainly featured in episodes about the underhanded stuff going on with them... & so on

I'm not saying it ruined the shows or anything, & I'm willing to read where I might be in the wrong on this, but it is noticeable, right?

 

[at Quark's]

I think as time goes by and a race keeps reappearing, if you (as a writer) don't keep adding new insights and perspectives to a race (say, the Vulcans), sooner or later the race will stop to be interesting to the audience. Unfortunately, the same process also makes it increasingly harder as more and more gets established about the race, and it gets more 'pigeonholed'. So at first you introduce nuances (Vulcans have emotions but suppress them, Klingons want to conquer the galaxy because they have a warrior caste with an honour code). But eventually, it's probably very hard not to break your own "rules", so we get hypocrite Klingons that only pay lip service to honour, emotional Vulcans, and so on.

I don't say it is impossible to write a race consistently every time it is used and still keep it interesting but apparently it is very hard, and not something you can do properly when under time constraints of producing yet another episode. Probably only can be done properly if you work out the entire series' arc in advance instead of making it up as you go along.

So I suppose a race either has to be used very sparingly, or else it will evolve in unforeseen directions.

The alternative of course would be not to expect a species to be defined by concepts. For example, humans never get "ruined". Why not? Because they were never 'pigeonholed' in the first place. At least, I've never heard anyone complain for example that Mudd "ruïned" the concept of 23rd century "better" humanity.

 

[Mojochi]

In a weird way, I feel like Betazoids came in as just another race, that had unique ways, sexually, emotionally, telepathically, etc... but almost by accident, they kept a discrete distance that never quite derailed them, & they get the human treatment more than others

I use to be bothered by the lack of Vulcans on TNG, but now I'm thinking they did a favor to them by backing away. TOS did nothing BUT talk about Vulcans. Find a new axe to grind, if you're going to focus on one more than any others

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Cardassians?

 

[Butters]

The Binars.

We should have seen far more of them. Such a rich and well conceived species.

 

[urbandefault]

Pakleds.

"We look for things. Things to make us go."

 

[Vger23]

I'll second the Cardassians.

 

[Tenacity]

I've never heard anyone complain for example that Mudd "ruïned" the concept of 23rd century "better" humanity.

Want complaints? Ask if DIS Mudd "ruïned" the concept TOS Mudd.

Plus TOS didn't try to sell the idea of a better Humanity, that (sadly) was TNG.

TOS did nothing BUT talk about Vulcans.

Did you mean ENT?

 

[Mojochi]

Did you mean ENT?

Them too. In fact, they kind of drove the whole thing into the ground, & I was really not interested in them much because of it

But I mostly meant that TOS had really only explored one alien race in detail, through Spock, leading up to TNG, who didn't want to go there as much. TNG opened the door for Worf to feature Klingon culture, & by the end of the show it had even gotten a little stale, to say nothing of them continuing to keep at it on DS9. While I liked Dorn bringing Worf to that show, I wasn't really interested in anything Klingon anymore by then, & it certainly didn't help out Jadzia by the end

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Ferengi went in the opposite direction. The TNG started out as absurd capitalist greed stereotypes and DS9 rehabilitated them into an interesting race.

There trouble with super-powerful races is that to you can only have them lose so many times before they stop seeming like a threat.

I don't think the non-super powerful races got ruined too much.

 

[Lexx Shrapnel]

The Ferengi went in the opposite direction. The TNG started out as absurd capitalist greed stereotypes and DS9 rehabilitated them into an interesting race.

There trouble with super-powerful races is that to you can only have them lose so many times before they stop seeming like a threat.

I don't think the non-super powerful races got ruined too much.

In what way are they unique post rehabilitation besides looks and Oomax?

 

[at Quark's]

Want complaints? Ask if DIS Mudd "ruïned" the concept TOS Mudd.

Plus TOS didn't try to sell the idea of a better Humanity, that (sadly) was TNG.
Did you mean ENT?

Can't talk about discovery, have no access to that.

And I'm of the opinion that TOS did try to sell the idea of a better humanity, just not to the same ridiculous degree TNG made it out to be. Even in TOS, Earth is supposed to be a utopian, post-scarcity society. Wars on earth were something of the distant past. There were only literally a handful of cases of people with incurable mental illness left in the entire Federation. And so on. They are just not acting so smug about it and they admit there are still flaws.

The Cardassians are an interesting case, yes. They didn't seem to 'degrade' as quickly as most other races.

 

[Mojochi]

The Ferengi went in the opposite direction. The TNG started out as absurd capitalist greed stereotypes and DS9 rehabilitated them into an interesting race.

Meh... They made a couple characters not too uninteresting, but I don't think they restored anything remarkable about them... more elaborate? I'll grant you that. I was as bored by any talk of rules of acquisition, blah blah blah, by a couple seasons into DS9, as I was about Klingon honor by the end of TNG

& TNG actually didn't start out Ferengis nearly as ridiculously. They started out as an ominous bizarre race, & quickly devolved into that. I absolutely loved Damon Bok

 

[JirinPanthosa]

& TNG actually didn't start out Ferengis nearly as ridiculously. They started out as an ominous bizarre race, & quickly devolved into that. I absolutely loved Damon Bok

Are we talking about the same The Last Outpost? They jumped around like monkeys, snarled, went in weird 'supposed to be dominant' poses and told women to SUBMIT. They came off like Marxist propaganda. And all they ever did was play the cartoon villain, 'Opposing for the sake of opposing' with no slightest gleam of intelligence or actual cleverness.

What did DS9 bring to Ferengi? Besides Rom and Nog rebelling against the profiteering lifestyle, Quark had episodes where he intelligently defended capitalism to its detractors.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS did nothing BUT talk about Vulcans. Find a new axe to grind, if you're going to focus on one more than any others

But I mostly meant that TOS had really only explored one alien race in detail, through Spock,

That was the nature of the show. Few races appeared more than once. Spock, by being the only regular alien character, gets his race explored. Even then, they barely scratched the surface. We learned things in drips and drabs. By the end of TOS we still had scant knowledge of the Vulcans.

 

[Tenacity]

Even in TOS, Earth is supposed to be a utopian, post-scarcity

TOS position (imo) was the Humanity simply survived to reach the future, we didn't kill ourselves off. No utopiain paradise implied.

As for post-scarcity, that just an invention of some of the fans.

Are we talking about the same The Last Outpost? They jumped around like monkeys, snarled, went in weird 'supposed to be dominant' poses and told women to SUBMIT

But you have to admit, they were different.

Different than Humans, different than any of the previously seen species/cultures. The snarls were replace with squeels, the jumping around dropped, but the ferengi eventually became a well developed species,.

One of the species known outside of Star Trek. Other than the Vulcans and Klingons how many in-universe species can you say that about?

The Ferengi went in the opposite direction. The TNG started out as absurd capitalist greed stereotypes and DS9 rehabilitated them into an interesting race.

DS9 turned the ferengi into a bland everyone else species, what made them unique was stripped away.

Nothing would make me happier than if the ferengi rejected the "reforms" and re-establish their previous culture.

 

[The Wormhole]

Cardassians?

I'll second the Cardassians.

I'll third, and add the Bajorans as well.

 

[Mojochi]

Are we talking about the same The Last Outpost? They jumped around like monkeys, snarled, went in weird 'supposed to be dominant' poses and told women to SUBMIT.

No, Damon Bok was in The Battle. At that point I thought they could be effective villains, because they were so deplorable. They walked that back over the years until they are cartoon characters by the time of Rascals, & frankly, I thought the one scientist plot they did in Suspicions did more to rebound them than anything I saw of Quark, but admittedly, that's just my personal opinion.

That was the nature of the show. Few races appeared more than once. Spock, by being the only regular alien character, gets his race explored. Even then, they barely scratched the surface. We learned things in drips and drabs. By the end of TOS we still had scant knowledge of the Vulcans.

Yes, & I actually preferred their way of handling it. It wasn't overkilled like later series would do

Cardassians weren't as bad as some others, but I was way less interested in them as years went on. The Founders might be an interesting case

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Cardassians?

I'll third, and add the Bajorans as well.

My thought too. And this is mostly due to DS9 being on a station rather than a starship. It shows more diverse Cardassian and Bajoran characters as opposed to just the ones explorers are most likely to encounter.

 

[Brass]

I'll echo what a lot of others have said and submit that the cardassians and bajorans have details added over time that don't dilute them. I think a lot of this has to do with the large variety of individuals we encounter during DS9 in both races. While it's clear the society has some overall characteristics for each, clearly there is a diverse range of individuals from the get go. Not so much with the Klingons and Vulcans...they start off pretty uniform.