Would TNG Have Worked Without Picard?

[JamesRye]

Jonathan Frakes and the 100+ episodes of television (and several movies) that he's directed would like a word.

Well sure, he's a decent Director, and I think he's a good actor. But I just don't think he'd have given TNG the gravitas in a lead role that Stewart brought to bear. I mean, I think most of the TNG cast are talented actors...

It's funny because in the original concept for TNG, Picard is supposed to be kind of the second lead. You know, Riker was the one who went on the missions while the Captain stayed on the ship. But as time went by, Picard came to dominate the series along with Data and to a lesser extent, Worf. And I think that's because those actors were the best ones.

It's a fun thought experiment to imagine if they brought on Avery Brooks or Kate Mulrew or Richard Dean Anderson after BOBW. Would it have worked? Maybe. But we'd loose those incredible tour de force performances that Sir Pat put in.

 

[ananta]

Interestingly, people seem to like Picard less these days, I remember back in the 90’s most fans seemed to think he was the best captain by far. I’m not sure what’s contributed to the reevaluation of the character. His incongruous morphing into Bruce Willis-esque action hero in TNG movies? The rather frail, broken, regretful figure we encountered in PIC? Who knows.

I always liked Picard even though he had a stick up his ass for most of TNG. I liked his intelligence, dignity and presence. Stewart brought a lot of class to the series with his incredible performance.

I think the show would have been fine if we’d had Riker as captain. What Jonathan Frakes lacks in acting chops he makes up for with charisma and I think he’d have done fine. His command style would have been more relaxed and less formal perhaps. I doubt it would have been better but it would have got by.

 

[Oddish]

I think that TNG would have been a very different show with Riker instead of Picard. But, I think that by the end of S3 it had come into its own enough that it would have survived the transition, as long as the new first was a good fit. I might have disliked Shelby early on, but she might have grown on me later. It took me awhile to warm to Janeway.

 

[JamesRye]

Interestingly, people seem to like Picard less these days, I remember back in the 90’s most fans seemed to think he was the best captain by far. I’m not sure what’s contributed to the reevaluation of the character. His incongruous morphing into Bruce Willis-esque action hero in TNG movies? The rather frail, broken, regretful figure we encountered in PIC? Who knows.

I always liked Picard even though he had a stick up his ass for most of TNG. I liked his intelligence, dignity and presence. Stewart brought a lot of class to the series with his incredible performance.

I think the show would have been fine if we’d had Riker as captain. What Jonathan Frakes lacks in acting chops he makes up for with charisma and I think he’d have done fine. His command style would have been more relaxed and less formal perhaps. I doubt it would have been better but it would have got by.

Well, IMHO, the movies were all pretty terrible for the TNG cast. I mean, FC works as a kind of Alien riff set in the Star Trek Universe, it's well directed, but hardly original. I strongly dislike Nemesis. Picard Seasons 1 and 2 I thought were awful and I was quite sad that Sir Patrick had tarnished his legacy, so I was pleased that Season 3 kind of reset the ship and let the cast go out on something of a high.

To be honest, I kind of wish the show had ended with AGT, it was the perfect send off.

 

[ananta]

To be honest, I kind of wish the show had ended with AGT, it was the perfect send off.

Agreed, AGT was the perfect ending. Everything after was a case of diminishing returns.

Sometimes I get a little salty there’s been no follow up to DS9, but given how disappointing TNG movies and Picard generally was, I’m actually quite relieved. When you can’t top perfection it’s best not to try.

 

[Oddish]

To be honest, I kind of wish the show had ended with AGT, it was the perfect send off.

Indeed. But the raison d'etre for AGT was to transition the TNG crew to the big screen. So it might not have existed without the movies.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Interestingly, people seem to like Picard less these days, I remember back in the 90’s most fans seemed to think he was the best captain by far. I’m not sure what’s contributed to the reevaluation of the character. His incongruous morphing into Bruce Willis-esque action hero in TNG movies? The rather frail, broken, regretful figure we encountered in PIC? Who knows.

I think it has to do with him being the franchise's poster boy for diplomacy, morality, nice speeches etc. These days people seem... less concerned with these issues. The other captains all still work fine in today's context, but Jean-Luc with his unshakable TNG optimism and "humanity has evolved" attitude seems... anachronistic and sometimes even arrogant. He's a true product of his time, a VERY late 80s/early 90s captain.

And, of course, PIC didn't help either. It WAS intended as a show that would shake people's' perception of him, and in THAT regard they sure succeeded (I can see where they came from with what they tried but I definitely don't agree with how it was done). However, I think that even without PIC people would be more cynical towards Jean-Luc these days.

 

[Romulan Cloak]

Patrick Stewart is a gentleman and a class act

Have never liked these discussions on who was the best ever captain. Each actor has always bought something special to the role

I also feel other key roles such as Troi, Worf, Data, Riker, Geordi and Beverly Crusher played huge roles in Picard being the successful captain he is. Each of those roles also played by brilliant actors

 

[Phoenix219]

I think it has to do with him being the franchise's poster boy for diplomacy, morality, nice speeches etc. These days people seem... less concerned with these issues. The other captains all still work fine in today's context, but Jean-Luc with his unshakable TNG optimism and "humanity has evolved" attitude seems... anachronistic and sometimes even arrogant. He's a true product of his time, a VERY late 80s/early 90s captain.

And, of course, PIC didn't help either. It WAS intended as a show that would shake people's' perception of him, and in THAT regard they sure succeeded (I can see where they came from with what they tried but I definitely don't agree with how it was done). However, I think that even without PIC people would be more cynical towards Jean-Luc these days.

that arrogance and pompous speechifying is why I have never liked him, even when I was 10 lol.

 

[Oddish]

They all had moments when I wanted to throw something at their heads. Depending on their level of dickishness, what I wanted to throw ranged from a pillow, through a potted plant, all the way to a photon grenade.

 

[Paul Weaver]

In the 90s I saw TNG as an optimistic future of a humanity which had put aside its problems and is working together in an equitable society as one. Picard was the embodiment of that and was thus brilliant.

A lot of people today do not think that's an aspirational future.

 

[DonIago]

I still think Picard has a lot to like about him in terms of his optimism and persistently striving for what he believes to be morally correct (usually).

OTOH, one could argue that it reflected a certain naivete and that he could often be inflexible as well.

His speech to Wesley in "The First Duty" is great and all...but it doesn't exactly reflect the complexities of Starfleet, and arguably a somewhat more compassionate approach might have been more productive. Picard could be incredibly empathetic...until you pissed him off, and then you'd get nothing from him.

I can only imagine how it would go between him and Sisko if he ever learned of Sisko's actions during "In the Pale Moonlight"...and yet, the Federation might have lost the war if Sisko hadn't been willing to get his hands dirty, and do we really think Picard would have done the same in his shoes?

 

[Oddish]

I can only imagine how it would go between him and Sisko if he ever learned of Sisko's actions during "In the Pale Moonlight"...and yet, the Federation might have lost the war if Sisko hadn't been willing to get his hands dirty, and do we really think Picard would have done the same in his shoes?

Picard's actions in "I, Borg" suggest no.

 

[Uxi]

Seconded. It would have been a cultureshock, but the framework was there and Shelby would go down the same route Riker had. Though finding ways to get Riker down to planets would become more contrived, because the makers of TNG did not want to repeat the TOS trope of having the captain and first officer both beaming down to explore planets - Captain is supposed to stay on the bridge and the first officer gets to go down and report back.

It doesn't really make sense for either the CO or XO to go down. That's a TV/casting/budget thing as much as thing as anything else. The bridge people should be on the bridge and they'd send specialists down: diplomatic for those types of things bunch of science division science missions with a couple redshirts for security in most.

As far as TNG Season 4 with Riker as CO, would like to see him do a Uno Reverse Card on Shelby and do exactly that: neither one of them go down and they send the 2nd officer.

 

[Phoenix219]

It doesn't really make sense for either the CO or XO to go down. That's a TV/casting/budget thing as much as thing as anything else. The bridge people should be on the bridge and they'd send specialists down: diplomatic for those types of things bunch of science division science missions with a couple redshirts for security in most.

As far as TNG Season 4 with Riker as CO, would like to see him do a Uno Reverse Card on Shelby and do exactly that: neither one of them go down and they send the 2nd officer.

worf or data leading away teams could have been really fun.

TNG would have never done it, but either one of those characters could have gotten their own take on the Galileo 7.