Women in leadership roles

[DimesDan]

Interesting though. A topic about women leaders is still overshadowed by discussion of a male President. He has the power to do that which says a lot about how much focus we have on women.

This may have been lost on you, so apologies, I was merely pointing out the sad excuse of a thing America currently has as a President.

Regardless of the dislike in some camps for William that got transferred on to Hillary, none of those three things I mentioned would have occurred.

One has to remember that I and a few others in this thread come from countries who have had multiple leaders who are women.

Hell, the longest serving PM the UK had in the 20th Century was a woman (and she became PM nearly 40 years ago), we have one now, New Zealand has one now so does Germany plus others, which I can't remember right now.

 

[Refuge]

Obviously Trump is a lightning rod but Hillary was in Obama's shadow too. Always the bridesmaid. For many the status quo is comfortable. I'm not trying to have a go at male Presidents or leaders but I think the US is lagging behind a little.

Oh to edit. I'm not a Hillary fan, but am just approaching this from how I see the prospects of women taking leadership roles.

 

[Refuge]

This may have been lost on you, so apologies, I was merely pointing out the sad excuse of a thing America currently has as a President.

Regardless of the dislike in some camps for William that got transferred on to Hillary, none of those three things I mentioned would have occurred.

One has to remember that I and a few others in this thread come from countries who have had multiple leaders who are women.

Hell, the longest serving PM the UK had in the 20th Century was a woman (and she became PM nearly 40 years ago), we have one now, New Zealand has one now so does Germany plus others, which I can't remember right now.

New Zealand's Prime Minister I personally admire. I do agree many of us (I'm NZ born but Australian citizen) have had several influential women leaders.

 

[Jayson1]

America is lagging behind a great deal. I think alot of that has to do with how we are always at war it seems. Which I guess even today many see as male kind of thing to lead. Granted you got examples why that shouldn't be the case but Americans have a bad habit of not paying attention to anything that isn't happening in America. Unless someone is trying to kill us or join us via immigration.

Jason

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Infraction reversed after conversation with poster.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Women are winning.
Two Muslim women have been elected to Congress by the Democrats. The leadership of both women will show women and young girls around the world that it doesn't matter if you are Muslim or a female. If your heart and will is in the correct place then you can become a leader and do anything in life.
You will never see such leadership from the GOP, let alone Russia, China or North Korea.

Normally I just close down your threads, Dryson, because they're so ill-informed and nonsensical and poison the well with unnecessary tribalism in the OP that they usually result in more mockery of you or your inflammatory words than commentary on the bare bones of a premise buried amid all the chaff.

But there's a solid premise for discussion in your post about women gaining more leadership roles that I don't want to let your poorly constructed OP ruin it. So, I'm going to edit your OP to take out the stuff that will most obviously provoke party tribalism and let the thread stay open for now, as long as people stick to the topic. If you prefer not to have the OP edited, I will restore the original content and close the thread instead if things have not gotten back on track.

 

[suarezguy]

She also doesn't have a issue that defies her. Obama had health care

Back in '07/'08 Clinton was a lot more associated with health care, having tried to get it before and also seeming more aggressive about getting it for more people than Obama was. She was hurt though by perceived as too much a standard politician and as being an unapologetic war-supporter (and free trader).

I also wonder what Trump Tv would be doing and what kind of influence that would be having on the culture. Hell if Russia wanted him power I am guessing they would be trying to move Heaven and Earth to make sure he gets elected in 2020. I doubt they would give up that easy.

Russia likes him just because he is divisive and offensive, if he had lost they might still support him but (especially as I doubt he would run again) would more likely move on to supporting Ted Cruz.

I still think a Civil War is going to happen and it is kind of destined to happen

Aside from Trump, who is not very ideological, and maybe McConnell the leaderships of both parties seem pretty moderate.

 

[suarezguy]

Political leadership does tend to be entrenched, which probably strongly hurts women in politics overall but does help a few; Nancy Pelosi has been the Democratic House of Representatives leader since 2003 to today. Overall women are increasing in representation but most people identify a lot more strongly with their party membership than gender.

 

[Jayson1]

Back in '07/'08 Clinton was a lot more associated with health care, having tried to get it before and also seeming more aggressive about getting it for more people than Obama was. She was hurt though by perceived as too much a standard politician and as being an unapologetic war-supporter (and free trader).



Russia likes him just because he is divisive and offensive, if he had lost they might still support him but (especially as I doubt he would run again) would more likely move on to supporting Ted Cruz.



Aside from Trump, who is not very ideological, and maybe McConnell the leaderships of both parties seem pretty moderate.

One difference between Trump and Cruz though is with Trump you have someone who is willing to be a traitor. As bad as Cruz is or many politicans are I am thinking it's still got to be kind of hard for many of them to sell out on that kind of level. Trump is a perfect Russian tool. He is willing to submit,he has a personality that appeals to enough people that they are willing to submit to him. Actually finding someone who is both willing to sellout but interesting enough to be seen as a legit candidate must actually be kind of hard to do if your Putin.


Jason

 

[Awesome Possum]

Political leadership does tend to be entrenched, which probably strongly hurts women in politics overall but does help a few; Nancy Pelosi has been the Democratic House of Representatives leader since 2003 to today. Overall women are increasing in representation but most people identify a lot more strongly with their party membership than gender.

Actually it’s more due to sexism, although sexism is deeply entrenched into politics and most aspects of life. A prime example as recently on display during the recent Supreme Court confirmation. Men are always trusted over women. Hell, even movies starring women become targets for abuse.

 

[Spot261]

Obviously Trump is a lightning rod but Hillary was in Obama's shadow too. Always the bridesmaid. For many the status quo is comfortable. I'm not trying to have a go at male Presidents or leaders but I think the US is lagging behind a little.

Oh to edit. I'm not a Hillary fan, but am just approaching this from how I see the prospects of women taking leadership roles.

Oh I agree, the US is behind and the real metric isn't just who sits in the big seat, but also the proportion of people in the government around them,.

 

[Jayson1]

Political leadership does tend to be entrenched, which probably strongly hurts women in politics overall but does help a few; Nancy Pelosi has been the Democratic House of Representatives leader since 2003 to today. Overall women are increasing in representation but most people identify a lot more strongly with their party membership than gender.

To me that has been a big issue with Democrats. We talk about how things are bad for the party but when it comes to these older dinosaur types who have been in power for to long it's the opposite. Things have gone very well for them even as the party has fallen down around them. Pelosi and the person she replaced in Harry Reid are examples of what people complain about when it comes to the Establishment. They basically represent failure at this point at a time when people are wanting change. Actually people have been wanting that ever since Obama and other than Obama I don't think we gotten much of it.

Jason

 

[Spot261]

Actually it’s more due to sexism, although sexism is deeply entrenched into politics and most aspects of life. A prime example as recently on display during the recent Supreme Court confirmation. Men are always trusted over women. Hell, even movies starring women become targets for abuse.

Over here we're had two female pms, both conservative, and neither of which have done their fellow women many favours by arguably overseeing (read driving) two of the most depressingly catastrophic periods in our recent history.

Ironically it was a conservative government which also made the most convincing visible push towards female cabinet representation

 

[Avro Arrow]

Women are winning.

What is this supposed to mean, exactly?

Women make up approximately 50% of the population. As for leadership:

• Women hold 24% of senior management positions in business globally, and this has declined from 25% in 2017
• Women hold approximately 8 - 10% of CEO positions globally, depending on which data source you read
• Women hold only 4.8% of the CEO positions in Fortune 500 companies, and this is also a drop from 2017
• Women make up 23.9% of representatives in a single or lower house, and 24.0% of representatives in an upper house or senate, globally
• Women represent only 5.6% of heads of state, and 7.3% of heads of government, globally

In the United States of America (which I assume you are from, since your post references the US Congress):

• Women hold 19.3% of the seats in the House of Representatives, and 23% of the seats in the Senate
• Women comprise 13.6% of state governors
• Women hold 22% of senior-level cabinet positions, down from 35% in Obama's second term

But please, tell me more about how we are "winning".

I appreciate your point about the leadership of these women being an inspiration to women and young girls everywhere, I truly do. However, blanket hyperbolic statements such as "women are winning!", often tend to lead to incorrect conclusions such as "sexism is dead!" or "we no longer need feminism!", and so cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

Please note, I have made a conscious and deliberate effort to just limit my response to issues of representation in leadership. There is so much more I could have said about women not "winning" in other areas, both globally and in the US. But I realized that a mod going way of topic, in her own forum no less, might not set the best example.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Also...

Two Muslim women have been elected to Congress

It is possible that this might have just been poorly phrased on your part, and is not exactly what you intended to say. However, for those still interested in outmoded concepts such as factual accuracy... the women who (I assume) you are referring to, have not yet been elected to Congress, because your elections aren't until November 6.

• Rashida Tlaib won the Democratic primary, and is running for the House of Representatives in Michigan's 13th district. She is running unopposed in the election, so the seat is basically hers, she just doesn't hold it yet.
• Ilhan Omar won the Democratic primary, and is running for the House of Representatives in Minnesota's 5th district. She is facing Republican candidate Jennifer Zielinksi in the election, but is heavily favoured to win. FiveThirtyEight marks this district as "Solid Democrat", and expects Omar to win around 80% of the popular vote.

So yes, both are definitely expected to be elected to Congress in a little over three weeks from now. We're just not quite there yet.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Things have improved, there's no doubt about that. But women aren't really winning, we just gained a slight forward moment while constantly being attacked in the process. Even for stupid things like video games and movies.

 

[T'Bonz]

I'm curious how no one has yet noticed the prominence of @T'Boo as

It's the Internet.TrekBBS, although somewhat known by Trek fans (only ones who go online of course. Some don't). In the larger scheme of things, it's a big nothing in the vast galaxy of the Internet.

Most who run these kinds of Trek BBSes are male which can be interesting. I've had the owner of another Trek site try to tell me how to write news. That didn't go down well. We worked it out over the phone. Some don't know what to make of a female. When they finally meet me, they realize that I don't bite.

I think more than one male Trek fan still doesn't get that women are and always have been Trek fans. Females may be interested in different aspects of the shows, but we like Trek as much if not more than some.

But the males who have worked with me here have never condescended to me. Argued at times, yes, but that's healthy.

Women can lead. Some will and like it. Some wouldn't like it or wouldn't do well. It's the same for men. We all know shitty leaders of both sexes and we like/respect a good leader of either sex.'

Janet:

But women aren't really winning.

I must disagree with this. Anyone who was alive in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s as a girl or woman know how things were back then. It most certainly got better and we are winning.

Is it perfect? No. Do we have a way to go? Yes. But I'm pretty happy about my status as a woman these days compared to how women were viewed by many in the "good old days." From my ancient post of 60 - we're winning. My 10-30 year old self would have been thrilled how far we have come.
I'm still kind of pissed though that the ERA didn't pass.

 

[Spot261]

It's the Internet.TrekBBS, although somewhat known by Trek fans (only ones who go online of course. Some don't). In the larger scheme of things, it's a big nothing in the vast galaxy of the Internet.

I do think at times you underestimate how important this place is to the people who post here. You may see it as a tiny corner of the internet and consequently meaningless, but for some of us this place represents a great deal more than that and without you we'd be up the creek.

So minimise what you do by all means, but don't try to convince me cause I'm not buying it.

I must disagree with this. Anyone who was alive in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s as a girl or woman know how things were back then. It most certainly got better and we are winning.

If you are winning it's the slowest victory in history.