• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why'd we always blame the writer?

No, don't give into him. This is what he wants
It's more of giving up on him than giving into him actually. It's one of those situations I've noticed that happens quite a lot with oversensitive almost drone like Who fans these days. You can say anything you like about anyone or anything that came before or after RTD but, make even the tiniest bit of criticism toward RTD and his era and you're automatically an evil hateful person who just wants to bash him. This thread is a great example of it.

Someone asks a question and a person or two gives an answer they don't like so they throw a hissy fit. The question in this case was "Why do we always blame the writer?". We give an answer using a writer from NuWho. Why NuWho? Because it's the current version show and not all people are familiar with the original version for one reason or another. Usually because they're longer than 42 minutes, some are B&W, no CGI, things aren't blowing up every five seconds, not enough shiny things, no EastEnders twaddle, the Doctor isn't an emo, no Rose, and no Tennant. In our examples we use RTD. Why do we choose RTD? First off, it has nothing to with liking or disliking the man. He wrote and co-wrote quite a few episodes and he was the head writer for four (specials are counted as part of series four) of the five series shown so far. This makes RTD the perfect candidate for an example because he's written the most so far since 2005 so he has more material to work with.

So we give some examples.

A lot of his characters are clingy, whiny (which in RTD's eyes being whiny equals a fleshed out character:rolleyes:), and 2-dimensional.

Stupid dumbed down stories that talk down to the audience as if they have an I.Q. of 8.

The Doctor is portrayed as a god (which he wasn't in the original series and would infact would correct those who called him a god by telling them he wasn't one) instead of the bumbling accidental hero time traveler he used to be.

The shoehorning in of soap opera crap that often puts the story in the background as we put up with characters whining. A good example of this is "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday". There's a fight between the Daleks and the Cybusmen and what did RTD do? Focus on Rose's selfish whining and pouting instead.

The fact he kept bringing back Rose time after time after time and in the end she was rewarded for he selfishness with a glorified Doctor sex toy.

These aren't just some random facts pulled out of thin air. These examples are easy to find as all the Doctor Who episodes he worked on have been released on DVD and if you don't have the DVDs I'm sure you could find the episodes somewhere online. Of course some of the other writers did so-so work too. But, the oversensitive Who fan assumes we used RTD to bash him instead of just using him as an example to point out some of the show's poor writing. Since he wrote the most he's got more material to find flaws in. But, of course, as usual the oversensitive Who fan instead of asking the logical question of why did you pick RTD, they throw a hissy fit and assume you just want to bash him and start calling you a "hater", insult you, and depending on what forum you're on all the nutters come out of the woodwork trash you and then you promptly get banned for trying to defend yourself. It's just easier to say fine whatever because there's no way to reason with them and just let them finish their little fit.
 
Well it's always easier for some people criticize and insult a writer, producer or director than to criticize their work.
 
Well it's always easier for some people criticize and insult a writer, producer or director than to criticize their work.
What the bloody hell are you talking about? Surely they're being criticised for their work.
 
I suppose I should've known better than to expect this to not turn into an RTD is teh blame for everything thread.

The mindset of people who hate him to such an extent that he's responsible for every bad thing that happens (even when proven he wasn't involved) yet somehow every good thing that happens is in spite of him is just bullshit of the highest order.

People who've been on this forum a while know damn well I'm no great fan of RTD but Christ you can't claim every little thing he ever did was wrong? It's pathetic and frankly I've had it with this crap. Is it too much to ask to have an actual discussion without Bones and The (and now someone new, wow Billie was horse faced, bet you on the other hand are a svelte super model of a man/woman) chiming in talking about RTD with so much hate you'd imagine they were Khan and Russell abandoned them on Ceti Alpha V and never bothered to check on their progress...

:techman:
 
You know, as bad as Fear Her was, if I were forced to rewatch either of them I'd choose that over Love & Monsters any day.
 
You know, as bad as Fear Her was, if I were forced to rewatch either of them I'd choose that over Love & Monsters any day.
agreed. Fear Her has its problems, no doubt, but i've always liked it better than Love & Monsters.
 
Well it's always easier for some people criticize and insult a writer, producer or director than to criticize their work.
So if we're no allowed to give even the tiniest bit of criticism to those who make a sub-par episode then what are we suppose to do then? Grit our teeth and with a faux smile tell them "Oh, what a good job you did" like you do to a small child no matter how shit it actually is? Or are we suppose to go outside, find some random person, throw them to the ground, and start yelling at them that its their fault?



...pulling the "You're just bashing RTD card"...
:techman:
vomit-1.gif


So nobody is allowed to criticise RTD for doing crap work, yet RTD is allowed bait, bash, and criticise fans to his heart's content if they don't kiss his ass or just for fun. :rolleyes:
 
It's ridiculous to criticise people for commenting on RTD's influence negatively in this thread. By definition we're discussing below par episodes by writers other than him. So when the direction and production is excellent (as it generally is in new Who), then who else is there to blame other than the writer if not the man who hands out the briefs and does rewrites on most episodes? Starkers really is chucking toys out of the pram here, for not getting the answers he wanted.
 
...Russel just loves to urinate over her scripts the most.

...the wheels had come off the show... flapping around, gurning and being shouty... lots of staring and shouting again.

...[Russel T. Davies'] inability to write Who in a manner that doesn't constantly apologize for it...

...RTD's Marketing Biography?

RTD... What an incompetent man.

...EastEnders style twaddle ...pissed off binman then a girning whiney emo git ...one of the worst companions ever... clingy over possessive wonder chav who won't go away Rose... Ten would either be bouncing off the walls and/or be mopey uttering "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry" in every episode... Rose was a fan-fic style companion who wanted to "be with" the Doctor. ...soap opera elements for faux emotions..

Tiniest bit of criticism? :vulcan:
 
Sometimes I think from reading stuff in this forum that it'd be better off if Doctor Who had never returned at all.
 
Nah, that's just the loud minority you're hearing. It's best to ignore them and enjoy the show as you see fit.
 
Oh I know...I find it amusing though when people like myself who actually like most of what RTD has done still get bashed by those who don't like him.
 
Well it's always easier for some people criticize and insult a writer, producer or director than to criticize their work.
So if we're no allowed to give even the tiniest bit of criticism to those who make a sub-par episode then what are we suppose to do then? Grit our teeth and with a faux smile tell them "Oh, what a good job you did" like you do to a small child no matter how shit it actually is? Or are we suppose to go outside, find some random person, throw them to the ground, and start yelling at them that its their fault?

Nobody's suggesting that you can't be critical but getting personal is IMO stepping over the line. Being called a "bitch" by the fans nearly drove Helen Raynor away from writing altogether. Can it really be all that difficult to seperate the person from their work while being critical of it?
 
Why wouldn't we blame the writer? As has previously been mentioned, the direction and prouction values (apart from a few subpar special effects) have been solid since the show was renewed.

Now, granted I hated David Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor (ALLONS-Y? Fuck off), but I'd venture a guess that he was written to be a shouty idiot in the first place.

So, with everything else being fine, where do we look? Surely it has to be the frankly rubbish plotlines and woeful dialogue dragging the show down. And since RTD has taken credit for rewriting most of the scripts, the blame lands fairly on him. If an entire class fails physics, chances are it's down to shitty teaching.

As for Helen Raynor threatening to quit writing because someone on the internet called her a name, she should grow the fuck up. Everyone who writes for a high profile tv show or movie is going to face that at some point (god knows I've seen Rick Berman called a lot worse), they just get on with their lives. That said, if her quitting would have saved us from those terrible Sontaran episodes, I wish she'd made good on her threat.
 
As for Helen Raynor threatening to quit writing because someone on the internet called her a name, she should grow the fuck up. Everyone who writes for a high profile tv show or movie is going to face that at some point (god knows I've seen Rick Berman called a lot worse), they just get on with their lives. That said, if her quitting would have saved us from those terrible Sontaran episodes, I wish she'd made good on her threat.

And since when is name calling anything like contructive criticism? There's a good reason RTD and Steven Moffat after him has stopped interacting with the fans on the internet.
 
As for Helen Raynor threatening to quit writing because someone on the internet called her a name, she should grow the fuck up. Everyone who writes for a high profile tv show or movie is going to face that at some point (god knows I've seen Rick Berman called a lot worse), they just get on with their lives. That said, if her quitting would have saved us from those terrible Sontaran episodes, I wish she'd made good on her threat.

And since when is name calling anything like contructive criticism? There's a good reason RTD and Steven Moffat after him has stopped interacting with the fans on the internet.

Please, enlighten me as to where I said it was constructive criticism. I'm not defending the people who did it, I'm calling her childish for rising to it and throwing a tantrum.
 
The fact he kept bringing back Rose time after time after time and in the end she was rewarded for he selfishness with a glorified Doctor sex toy.


But Roddenberry didn't get this crap when he gave Vina her sex toy Pike at the end of "The Cage" (or Pike getting Vina at the end of "The Menagerie".
 
...Russel just loves to urinate over her scripts the most.

...the wheels had come off the show... flapping around, gurning and being shouty... lots of staring and shouting again.

...[Russel T. Davies'] inability to write Who in a manner that doesn't constantly apologize for it...

...RTD's Marketing Biography?
I am not going to participate in this thread any longer, and perhaps I should back out of the forum as well, seeing the intense backlash of people who believe writers in Who cannot be criticized.

However, I will add this: Taking my quotes out of context and using them to prop up your opinion on people's honest criticism in this thread? Yeah, that's completely fair.

I stand by every single word I said in this thread, especially those dealing with David Tennant's portrayal of The Doctor. People don't like it? Suck it up and deal. If you take personal offense because I criticize your media darlings then the person with the emotional dysfunction is in your mirror.

No one got personal with anyone we're speaking about. No one called RTD a homophobic slur. No one said the man, himself, is a horrible person. All that was done was stated that his style of writing is the antithesis of enjoyable or good, in MY OPINION. If you cannot handle that, then don't read my posts.

Finally, for anyone who actually believes that it would be "better off" for Doctor Who not to have been brought back because not every single viewer enjoys RTD's take on the show........I'd honestly suggest you take a moment and consider how absolutely absurd your suggestion is. Kill the whole show because someone doesn't like an episode? Nonsense.

That's it. I'm done. You may all go back to your judgments of fellow posters now. :rolleyes:
 
Oh I know...I find it amusing though when people like myself who actually like most of what RTD has done still get bashed by those who don't like him.
No one's bashed you. Or are you actually RTD? If not, why on earth take this personally?

As for Raynor, I think it was extrememly unprofessional of RTD to embarrass her like that by revealing how she turned to a gibbering wreck when reading criticism of her stories. Of course, she ought to have a thick skin being in that game (and having written something so appallingly rubbish as the pigmen/multidickheaded Dalekman abomination), but we wouldn't have known she can't handle it if RTD hadn't blubbed in an effort to get sympathy against people with reasonable criticism of his work.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top