Voyager was a pretty small ship with a small crew. At the start of its mission 141 crew were said to be aboard. Most of the Department heads were LCDRs or LTs. Cavit the XO was a LCDR, The Original CMO was a LCDR, Tuvok Tactical/Security was originally a LT, The original engineer was never seen or rank given but I would guess he was a LCDR seeing that Carey was a LT, Stadi was a LT. So my question is why wouldn't a CMDR been sufficient to command a ship as small as an Intrepid Class.
Why was a Captain in command of Voyager?
- Thread starter ThatsMrCaptaintoyou
- Start date
Not really. The Intrepid class is actually a bit bigger than the Constitution class:
https://www.st-minutiae.com/stories/renaissance/tm/images/comparison_enterprise.gif
And 141 crew isn't that much less than the 203 that Pike had aboard in "The Cage."
I have a theory about this.
Voyager wasn't just looking for Chakotay's Maquis ship because Tuvok was on board. There were bigger things going on.
The official number for Voyager crewmembers when they started their mission was 141, including Paris but not including Tuvok.
However, when I started to count crewmembers who are mentioned in episodes and books I came up in 184.
And that's without Chakotay's Maquis crew who were 31 people mentioned in episodes and books, Tuvok and later additions like Neelix, Kes, Naomi Wildman, Seven, The Equinox crew, and the Borg children.
So why are there more people on the ship than the official numbers states?
My theory is that Voyager wasn't just looking for Chakotay's ship. It was also about invading the Maquis controlled planets in the Terikof Belt.
The Voyager crew was about 140 people, then there was a special task force of 33 people whose orders were to establish a bridgehead on one of the Maquis-controlled planets and from there bring in more Starfleet ships and soldiers to conquer all Maquis-controlled planets in the area. Lt Commander Cavit would have been in charge for the task of conquering the most important Maquis-base in the are and establish a bridgehead there. Therefore the ship was commanded by a captain, in this case Janeway!
Due to the delicate details about this invasion and to avoid that spies would find out about the mission, the whole thing was kept secret. Only a few people, including Janeway, Cavit, Dr. Fitzgerald, Chief Engineer Honigsberg, Tuvok and the task force members knew about the mission.
However, as we all know the plan was never sat in motion due to the fact that The Caretaker transported Voyager to the Delta Quadrant. Since Cavit, Fitzgerald and Honigsberg were killed during that event, Janeway and Tuvok were the only survivors among the senior staff who knew about the secret mission.
When Chakotay and his Maquis crew became members of the crew, Janeway decided to keep the secret mission a secret. The reason for that was that if words about the mission came out, it could create more tension between the Starfleet crew and the Maquis crew, something that Janeway wanted to avoid at all costs.
And if the crew managed to find a wormhole which could take them back while the Maquis still were active in the Alpha Quadrant, then the invasion plans could be an option again for Starfleet Command and in that case it would be better if so few people as possible did know about it. Therefore the task force members were ordered not to reveal anything to anyone about the mission. Instead they were transformed into ordinary Starfleet crew members with the one and only goal to find a way back to Earth.
As the time went by, the mission was soon forgotten by most people involved. It's possible that Janeway informed Chakotay later on about the original mission but for most of the crew members it remained a secret.
Voyager wasn't just looking for Chakotay's Maquis ship because Tuvok was on board. There were bigger things going on.
The official number for Voyager crewmembers when they started their mission was 141, including Paris but not including Tuvok.
However, when I started to count crewmembers who are mentioned in episodes and books I came up in 184.
And that's without Chakotay's Maquis crew who were 31 people mentioned in episodes and books, Tuvok and later additions like Neelix, Kes, Naomi Wildman, Seven, The Equinox crew, and the Borg children.
So why are there more people on the ship than the official numbers states?
My theory is that Voyager wasn't just looking for Chakotay's ship. It was also about invading the Maquis controlled planets in the Terikof Belt.
The Voyager crew was about 140 people, then there was a special task force of 33 people whose orders were to establish a bridgehead on one of the Maquis-controlled planets and from there bring in more Starfleet ships and soldiers to conquer all Maquis-controlled planets in the area. Lt Commander Cavit would have been in charge for the task of conquering the most important Maquis-base in the are and establish a bridgehead there. Therefore the ship was commanded by a captain, in this case Janeway!
Due to the delicate details about this invasion and to avoid that spies would find out about the mission, the whole thing was kept secret. Only a few people, including Janeway, Cavit, Dr. Fitzgerald, Chief Engineer Honigsberg, Tuvok and the task force members knew about the mission.
However, as we all know the plan was never sat in motion due to the fact that The Caretaker transported Voyager to the Delta Quadrant. Since Cavit, Fitzgerald and Honigsberg were killed during that event, Janeway and Tuvok were the only survivors among the senior staff who knew about the secret mission.
When Chakotay and his Maquis crew became members of the crew, Janeway decided to keep the secret mission a secret. The reason for that was that if words about the mission came out, it could create more tension between the Starfleet crew and the Maquis crew, something that Janeway wanted to avoid at all costs.
And if the crew managed to find a wormhole which could take them back while the Maquis still were active in the Alpha Quadrant, then the invasion plans could be an option again for Starfleet Command and in that case it would be better if so few people as possible did know about it. Therefore the task force members were ordered not to reveal anything to anyone about the mission. Instead they were transformed into ordinary Starfleet crew members with the one and only goal to find a way back to Earth.
As the time went by, the mission was soon forgotten by most people involved. It's possible that Janeway informed Chakotay later on about the original mission but for most of the crew members it remained a secret.
Because Starfleet usually does not seem to differentiate between the rank and the position of Captain - i.e. you command a vessel, even if it is the USS Tiny Trashbag, you get to be a captain by rank.
Starfleet might believe in a competency/trustworthiness exam you need before being handed the keys to a weapon of mass destruction - and that exam involves giving you the rank of Captain, for unambiguity. You can terminate entire biosystems with an Oberth if unopposed, so you really need that extra level of trust regardless of the size or exact model of your starship.
Note that while the Voyager warranted a four-pip CO, her XO was "only" a LCDR rather than a full three-pipper. Possibly the sign of a lesser vessel?
Then again, Captain Keogh in his giant starship Odyssey had a LCDR stand next to him (yes, Keogh didn't believe in comfy chairs much!).
Timo Saloniemi
Note that while the Voyager warranted a four-pip CO, her XO was "only" a LCDR rather than a full three-pipper. Possibly the sign of a lesser vessel?
Then again, Captain Keogh in his giant starship Odyssey had a LCDR stand next to him (yes, Keogh didn't believe in comfy chairs much!).
Timo Saloniemi
And again, Voyager was not a small ship, just a midsized ship. It was slightly bigger than Kirk's Enterprise, which was a large ship for the 23rd century (or at least we thought so until Discovery came along). Presumably a ship that size needed fewer personnel because of a century of advances in efficiency and automation (though that doesn't explain how Pike was able to manage with just 203 crew).
For that matter, Kirk's Enterprise was the size of an aircraft carrier (per the comparison image in The Making of Star Trek), yet had only 430 crew while an equivalent present-day carrier has a crew of several thousand. So if the needed crew size can diminish that much in 300 years, it's no surprise it diminished further in the next 100 years.
A small ship is something like the Defiant, which was often commanded by officers below captain's rank (Sisko in season 3, Worf, Dax in season 6).
For that matter, Kirk's Enterprise was the size of an aircraft carrier (per the comparison image in The Making of Star Trek), yet had only 430 crew while an equivalent present-day carrier has a crew of several thousand. So if the needed crew size can diminish that much in 300 years, it's no surprise it diminished further in the next 100 years.
A small ship is something like the Defiant, which was often commanded by officers below captain's rank (Sisko in season 3, Worf, Dax in season 6).
Then again, size is relative, and the Intrepid and the Constitution were both relative midgets in the VGR context. The Defiant in turn wasn't markedly smaller than the Constitution, merely more tightly packed (and thus perhaps a better comparison to today's aircraft carriers which also are monohull blocks without dangling bits).
Starships in TOS came in a size range of one, the hero ship. Those in TNG were all across the charts, even before the introduction of kitbashes; reuse of TOS movie assets took care of that. We never saw a starship skipper below the rank of Captain in those shows (and movies), so there's something absolute rather than relative about it.
Timo Saloniemi
Starships in TOS came in a size range of one, the hero ship. Those in TNG were all across the charts, even before the introduction of kitbashes; reuse of TOS movie assets took care of that. We never saw a starship skipper below the rank of Captain in those shows (and movies), so there's something absolute rather than relative about it.
Timo Saloniemi
Oh don't even get me started on those
Conversely, when Lt. Castillo takes command of the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise", he is still called Lieutenant, even though from that moment on, he should be addressed as Captain.
The way I see it is The Galaxy and Nebula class are like Ford or Nimitz class aircraft carriers commanded by Captains, The Intrepid Class is like a Submarine, Frigate, or Destroyers commanded by Commanders and the Defiant is like a minesweeper or Corvette commanded by Lieutenant Commanders.
Precisely.
Any officer, even the greenest of Ensigns, would be referred to as Captain if they are in command.
IIRC, this is only if they are the ship's permanent commanding officer (i.e. all other senior officers are dead or incapacitated), not simply standing watch on the bridge during a normal duty shift. For example, an Ensign or Lieutenant who's commanding the night shift would probably not be called Captain (don't quote me on that though
).Or Skipper but title and rank are two different things
IIRC, this is only if they are the ship's permanent commanding officer (i.e. all other senior officers are dead or incapacitated), not simply standing watch on the bridge during a normal duty shift. For example, an Ensign or Lieutenant who's commanding the night shift would probably not be called Captain (don't quote me on that though
AFAIK, that's correct. Certainly I remember the Kelvinverse films being criticised for (among other things) having a "Night Shift Captain", though I can't recall if "Captain Sulu" -- placed in temporary command while Kirk and Spock were off the ship and Chekov was filling in for the recently resigned Scotty -- attracted similar criticism.
Conversely, DS9 suggests that temporary COs (Worf, Kira) are not titled as "Captain", whereas Dax was given the title briefly during the war after Sisko's promotion to Ross' aide (historically known as a Fleet Captain BTW), presumably as it was a de facto permenant appointment (cf Jellico's taking command of the E-D).
It's more just that "Behind the Lines" was the only time the writers paid attention to how it's supposed to work. As O'Brien explained it there, "It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as Captain." No mention of permanence. But the writers of previous (and subsequent) episodes and films either didn't know that tradition or didn't have room to explain it to the audience.
Out of universe, that's true.
In universe, it's reasonable to speculate that permanence is the reason.
Of course, you still have the problem that Sisko should have been Captain Sisko on the Defiant from season 3 onwards, so perhaps there isn't really a concrete in-universe explanation.
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