Why are the ranks so top heavy?

[The Wormhole]

Something that's been getting to me for a while now, and given this week we learn Naan is now Disco's chief of security (despite being an engineer on the Enterprise, but that's another discussion) I feel now it's time to make a discussion out of this.

Disco is a ship with a very high-ranked crew. Naan herself is a full commander, as was Landry. Curiously enough, Tyler was able to hold the chief of security position in this ship despite only being a Lieutenant. In engineering, we have Stamets who is now a Lt. Commander, Reno, a full Commander helping out, which would mean the chief engineer is likely a Commander as well, sine Reno is taking orders from him/her. In sickbay, Culber was (is?) a Lt. Commander, the space whale specialist was a full Commander, and one presumes the CMO is almost certainly a full Commander. And on the bridge, Saru and Michael are both Commanders, with Ariam a Lt. Commander.

So what's the deal here? It's a crew of 130, which typically should be commanded by a Commander, commanded by a Captain with five Commanders (plus two presumed Commanders) and two maybe three Lt. Commanders. For comparison, let's look at the Enterprise, during Kirk's command. A crew of 400 commanded by a Captain, with one Commander and three Lt. Commanders. Or the Enterprise D, a crew of 1000 commanded by a Captain with three Commanders and four Lt. Commanders. Or Voyager, a crew of 150 with commanded by a Captain with no full Commanders and two Lt Commanders. Then there's DS9, in the early seasons it had a crew of 300 commanded by a Commander, with one Major (equal to Lt. Commander) and one Lt. Commander. Seasons 4-6 the crew expands to 2000 commanded by a Captain with one Major and two Lt. Commanders. In the final season same crew of 2000 commanded by a Captain but now with one Colonel (equal to full Commander) and one Lt. Commander.

So why are the officer ranks on Disco so high? I can get having a Captain command, given it's importance to Starfleet's war effort, but why are there so many Commanders for a crew that size? Why is it so disproportionate compared to all other crews in all Star Trek?

Well, okay, the Enterprise A was commanded by Captain with two other Captains, four full Commanders, but that was until now the only exception. And even then, that had more to do with the senior officers being living legends.

 

[BillJ]

So why are the officer ranks on Disco so high?

Because they are the super-specialist ship in the entire Federation!!!

 

[Nerys Myk]

A crew of 400 commanded by a Captain, with one Commander and three Lt. Commanders.

The 1701 had a few other commanders: Lt Commanders Lang, Finney, Giotto and Mullhall and a couple of unknowns. Plus one unknown. Commander ( A red shirt so maybe Giotto's replacement?)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because they are the super-specialist ship in the entire Federation!!!

Because Trek writers know jack shit about ranks.

 

[The Wormhole]

The 1701 had a few other commanders: Lt Commanders Lang, Finney, Giotto and Mullhall and a couple of unknowns. Plus one unknown. Commander ( A red shirt so maybe Giotto's replacement?)

Giotto actually was one of the three I counted. McCoy, Scotty, Giotto. Guess I forgot about the others.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Enterprise-A had three captains on board one at one point.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Enterprise-A had three captains on board one at one point.

No kidding! And Scotty was initially promoted as “Captain of Engineering” for the Excelsior. I don’t expect Trek to ever get real world rankings, or at least 21st century style rankings. My understanding is that if they reflected how rankings work in real life most of the bridge crew would be low ranking noncoms, because officers have more important things to do than steering a ship.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No kidding! And Scotty was initially promoted as “Captain of Engineering” for the Excelsior. I don’t expect Trek to ever get real world rankings, or at least 21st century style rankings. My understanding is that if they reflected how rankings work in real life most of the bridge crew would be low ranking noncoms, because officers have more important things to do than steering a ship.

And Sulu was "Captain-In-Waiting"

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I’m able to roll with the idea of the TOS cast consisting of full fledged commanders and captains because they’ve sort of built up enough clout by the whale probe solution and Starfleet probably figures “eh, we’ll let these geezers run that old rust bucket until it’s straight to the mothballs”. That’s why it’s not working so well in V. “Heh heh, it’s actually broken, but it’ll keep them busy”

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

So why are the officer ranks on Disco so high?

Mushrooms man. Lots and lots of space mushrooms.

 

[Crewman6]

I just find it annoying that there are so many department heads and members of the senior staff that aren't actual cast members and that the show has no interest in fleshing out characters that hold extremely important positions on the ship like What's-her-name, the Eye Girl and that Other Guy, who are all bridge officers, but are essentially glorified extras.

Why isn't Culber CMO? Why isn't Stamets Chief Engineer? Why are both Michael and Saru alternatively the Science Officer?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I just find it annoying that there are so many department heads and members of the senior staff that aren't actual cast members and that the show has no interest in fleshing out characters that hold extremely important positions on the ship like What's-her-name, the Eye Girl and that Other Guy, who are all bridge officers, but are essentially glorified extras.

Why isn't Culber CMO? Why isn't Stamets Chief Engineer? Why are both Michael and Saru alternatively the Science Officer?

Saru's the XO.
As I've said before, why do those characters need "fleshing out"? I'd rather the time be devoted to characters who advance the plot. Being "important" on the ship doesn't mean important to the plot. Still, we have been learning more about people like Detmer and Oso. More than we knew about Sulu or Uhura by this point.
Uh if they're in the show they're cast members. Some are regulars Some are reoccurring.

 

[Yistaan]

Why isn't Culber CMO?

You would think something as serious as Tyler being a Klingon would involve the Chief Medical Officer, but apparently not and poor Culber had to deliver such momentous news all by himself.

 

[Lord Garth]

On an experimental ship like Discovery, I'd think top-heavy rank would be a good thing. You want experienced people in key positions for something so outside the norm.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I just find it annoying that there are so many department heads and members of the senior staff that aren't actual cast members and that the show has no interest in fleshing out characters that hold extremely important positions on the ship like What's-her-name, the Eye Girl and that Other Guy, who are all bridge officers, but are essentially glorified extras.

Why isn't Culber CMO? Why isn't Stamets Chief Engineer? Why are both Michael and Saru alternatively the Science Officer?

If DS9 taught me anything, it’s that characters are far more important than ship positions. It’s because of that “all ship positions must matter” mentality from the Berman era that we got main cast characters like Harry Kim and Travis Mayweather who practically wasted and only were part of the main cast because of their ship positions. So keeping Detmer as a supporting day player instead of a full fledged cast member is probably for the better. Unless the characters serve a purpose to the story, I don’t need to know who runs ops or the helm.

In all honesty, it's kind of refreshing as a concept to have the main protagonist NOT be the captain of the ship. Gives it a new dynamic we haven't really gotten out of Trek in a long time.

 

[David cgc]

If DS9 taught me anything, it’s that characters are far more important than ship positions. It’s because of that “all ship positions must matter” mentality from the Berman era that we got main cast characters like Harry Kim and Travis Mayweather who practically wasted and only were part of the main cast because of their ship positions. So keeping Detmer as a supporting day player instead of a full fledged cast member is probably for the better. Unless the characters serve a purpose to the story, I don’t need to know who runs ops or the helm.

I'd only add one thing, that there's nothing wrong with developing the supporting cast and giving them space in the limelight. I love having a deep bench of recurring crewmembers that gradually grow from repeating what the computer says to being fleshed out, well-rounded characters. nuBSG did it with Gaeta and Dee (plus a ton of pilots and deckhands, but we're talking about bridge crews), and it worked because it happened organically (well, except when Dee and Lee got together, but that was by writer fiat; I'm pretty sure they'd never shared a scene before the writers decided they'd be attracted to each other at the beginning of the second season). Whereas this season, it seems that writers are taking the fan criticism that importance on the ship's org chart should equal importance in the show's dramatis personæ seriously, so they're pushing Detmer, Rhys, Bryce, Owo, and Airiam towards being a bunch of nominally-important Hoshis and Travises, where with a little more care and patience, they could be O'Brians and Barclays (also, holy crap, just looked, and Barclay is only in five TNG episodes? Maybe Ogawa would be a better example).

Now, to be fair, I would feel better if I felt that the show actually did know who the CMO and Chief Engineer were, even if we didn't actually meet them often, if ever. I know giving them names limits their options if they decide they actually want to introduce them and its the Hollywood way to covet and jealously guard every opportunity you have not to make a decision, but it'd help make the show feel a little more grounded.

(That would be the what-not-to-do example from nuBSG, where they wanted to avoid being too Star Treky, so they had the doctor and engineer off-screen. The doctor thing didn't last, because a main character had a chronic medical condition and it helped for her to have a person to talk to about it, but they went from having throw-away mentions of an engineer in the first couple episodes to forgetting there was supposed to be one and giving Tyrol the job near the end of the show. My fanwank is the engineer was killed (or a participant) in the mutiny, but I digress.)

 

[Crewman6]

If DS9 taught me anything, it’s that characters are far more important than ship positions. It’s because of that “all ship positions must matter” mentality from the Berman era that we got main cast characters like Harry Kim and Travis Mayweather who practically wasted and only were part of the main cast because of their ship positions. So keeping Detmer as a supporting day player instead of a full fledged cast member is probably for the better. Unless the characters serve a purpose to the story, I don’t need to know who runs ops or the helm.

In all honesty, it's kind of refreshing as a concept to have the main protagonist NOT be the captain of the ship. Gives it a new dynamic we haven't really gotten out of Trek in a long time.

DS9 certainly showed that you can have interesting characters who aren't senior officers. But, at the same time, the show never suggested that there were people on the station who were MORE senior or more important than Sisko, O'Brien, Bashir, etc. Imagine if we spent two seasons with Bashir, but he was only one of several doctors on DS9 and had an unseen boss that just happened to never be around, ever, even when important things were happening.

There's no reason why Culber shouldn't be the CMO, end of story. Why does Stamets do everything important regarding running the Discovery's tech, but never once interacts meaningfully with the Chief Engineer? It's just dumb.

And just because Mayweather and Kim were crappy characters doesn't mean that you HAVE to make your bridge officers crappy characters.

I nitpick discovery a lot, but I think it has a cracking (if small) group of supporting characters. Tilly, Stamets and Saru are very interesting characters. There's no reason they couldn't devote at least a little attention to the other bridge officers to give them some personality, too, and some function in the story beyond pushing buttons. All the other Trek shows managed to juggle much larger casts with relative ease. Sure, Troi wasn't very compelling, but at least we knew what her deal was. I'm not saying we need a whole episode about Detmer, but at least allowing her more than one sentence an episode and a whiff of a personality would be a step in the right direction.

It's not a zero sum game.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All the other Trek shows managed to juggle much larger casts with relative ease.

DS9 did, but the rest pretty much failed at it. TNG was pretty much the Picard, Worf and Data show. VOY became about Janeway, the EMH and Seven. ENT was Archer, T'Pol and Trip. Scotty was about the only TOS secondary character to advance much beyond cipher.

 

[LJones41]

I guess this is another thread about the "inferiority" of "Discovery" in compare to the other Trek show?

 

[Crewman6]

I guess this is another thread about the "inferiority" of "Discovery" in compare to the other Trek show?

Sorry, isn't the point of this entire website to discuss the relative merits of "Star Trek"?