Who outranks who?

[asdf1]

Before Data's death, he held the rank of Lt.Cmdr and second officer of the Enterprise, whereas Troi was a full Commander.

My question is this, who outranked whom? Obviously Data would take command if Riker and Picard were indisposed, but ignoring that, would he call Troi 'sir' or would she call him that??

 

[Kirk1980]

If he is in command, then he is 'sir'.

On ordinary duty, she is.

The commander of the vessel is always regarded as holding a 'captain' rank.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

How does the chain of command work anyway?

1) Commanding officer
2) First officer
3) Second officer
4) All remaing members of the ships's senior staff in order of rank and length of service?

??


So, this would give us this:

1) Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
2) Cmdr. William Riker
3) Lt. Cmdr. Data
4) Cmdr. Beverly Crusher / Cmdr. Kate Pulaski
5) Lt. Cmdr./Cmdr. Deanna Troi
6) Lt. Tasha Yar (in Season 1)
7) Lt./Lt. Cmdr. Geordi La Forge
8) Lt. Worf

I'm not sure what role the Bridge Officer's Test plays here though. In "Disaster", Troi was put in charge of the ship because she was the highest-ranking officer on the bridge, despite the fact that she hadn't passed the Bridge Officer's Test at this point. Raises the question what's the purpose of this test anyway.

But let's assume that medical officers (?) who haven't passed the test are not part of the chain of command. This would remove Troi from the list pre-Season 7. Or maybe medical officers are generally put at the end of that list no matter their rank? This would make Geordi next in line.

Who's in command if Picard, Riker, and Data are killed or incapacitated? Crusher? Or La Forge? They never really dealt with that IIRC.

 

[Vanyel]

How does the chain of command work anyway?

1) Commanding officer
2) First officer
3) Second officer
4) All remaing members of the ships's senior staff in order of rank and length of service?

??


So, this would give us this:

1) Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
2) Cmdr. William Riker
3) Lt. Cmdr. Data
4) Cmdr. Beverly Crusher / Cmdr. Kate Pulaski
5) Lt. Cmdr./Cmdr. Deanna Troi
6) Lt. Tasha Yar (in Season 1)
7) Lt./Lt. Cmdr. Geordi La Forge
8) Lt. Worf

I'm not sure what role the Bridge Officer's Test plays here though. In "Disaster", Troi was put in charge of the ship because she was the highest-ranking officer on the bridge, despite the fact that she hadn't passed the Bridge Officer's Test at this point. Raises the question what's the purpose of this test anyway.

But let's assume that medical officers (?) who haven't passed the test are not part of the chain of command. This would remove Troi from the list pre-Season 7. Or maybe medical officers are generally put at the end of that list no matter their rank? This would make Geordi next in line.

Who's in command if Picard, Riker, and Data are killed or incapacitated? Crusher? Or La Forge? They never really dealt with that IIRC.

I believe the 1701D Command structure was:
Cpt. Picard
Cmdr. Riker
Lt. Cmdr. Data
Lt. Cmdr. LaForge
Lt. Yar (Season 1)
Lt. Worf

Example, in Descent, while most of the crew is on the planet looking for Data, LaForge is on the bridge and acting like Picard's XO. He even asks Picard that if he and Picard join the search team, who would assume command.

To me that would imply that Crusher, while competent to Command during the night shift or while there is not much going on, she is last on the list when the ship is in in danger. Or maybe a better reason would be that during an emergency Crusher's first responsibility is Sickbay.

 

[cultcross]

It is very unlikely that the ship's doctor would be a first choice as a ship's commander - In a situation where a number of senior staff are unable to man the bridge, it is entirely possible, perhaps likely, that the Doctor would have his or her hands full.
As for Troi, although 'trained as a bridge officer' thanks to a rather random B-plot, I don't see her being a first choice for a tactical situation or similar emergency.

LaForge has always seemed the most likely candidate for third officer - he took command as far back as The Arsenal of Freedom, iirc, and has been shown in command since when available.

 

[Ethros]

I believe the 1701D Command structure was:
Cpt. Picard
Cmdr. Riker
Lt. Cmdr. Data
Lt. Cmdr. LaForge
Lt. Yar (Season 1)
Lt. Worf

Example, in Descent, while most of the crew is on the planet looking for Data, LaForge is on the bridge and acting like Picard's XO. He even asks Picard that if he and Picard join the search team, who would assume command.

But in "Gambit" when Picard & Riker are offship and Data is in command he uses Worf as First Officer rather than La Forge.
Maybe that's just because he's on the Bridge though whereas La Forge is busy in Engineering

 

[JoeZhang]

And Kosinski comes running on the bridge and...




(serious what was that rank pin meant to be?)

 

[JustKate]

We need an actual naval officer -- like, one who has actually been on an actual naval vessel in actual real life -- to tell us how it ought to work. I don't know that much about it, but from what little I do know, TNG did follow basic navy protocol on a lot of stuff...well, so long as it fit in OK with the plot, that is. So if on a navy ship, a doctor would not take charge no matter his rank (and I'm 100 percent sure he would not, unless maybe he was the only officer left standing), then I think that's the way it would have worked on the Enterprise, too. Unless it didn't fit in OK with the plot, of course.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

In "Disaster", a lieutenant commander from the medical division outranked an ensign from the command division during a major crisis situation... then again, the writers probably thought that it was cool to put Troi in charge.


Anyway, here's a revised possible chain of command:

1) Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
2) Cmdr. William Riker
3) Lt. Cmdr. Data
4) Chief-engineers-of-the-week (Season 1 only)
5) Lt. Tasha Yar (Season 1 only)
6) Lt./Lt. Cmdr. Geordi La Forge
7) Lt. Worf
8) Cmdr. Beverly Crusher / Cmdr. Kate Pulaski
9) Lt. Cmdr./Cmdr. Deanna Troi
10) Helmsman-of-the-week (?)

 

[Red Ranger]

As I understand it, position matters more than rank. So while by the end of season 7, Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi might have been full commanders, they aren't in the direct chain of command. Data is second officer and while a grade below them, has the authority to command them as well.

It's why I wish they had just made Data a full commander. In fact, that ep where Troi becomes a full commander after taking the bridge officer's test, I would have preferred it if the story were simply about Data taking that test in order to advance his career. Then, that would have made it less confusing to the casual viewer not familiar with the difference between rank and position.

Also, in The Arsenal of Freedom, Geordi, at the time a lt., j.g., was in command of the ship. The chief engineer, a full lieutenant, tries to relieve him, but Geordi refuses, saying the only two people who can relieve him are Picard or Riker. That leaves out Data, which also makes little sense.

Oh, well! Such inconsistencies are entertaining.

Red Ranger

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Also, in The Arsenal of Freedom, Geordi, at the time a lt., j.g., was in command of the ship. The chief engineer, a full lieutenant, tries to relieve him, but Geordi refuses, saying the only two people who can relieve him are Picard or Riker. That leaves out Data, which also makes little sense.

Maybe La Forge made that up, knowing what a dork the chief engineer is.

 

[Red Ranger]

Also, in The Arsenal of Freedom, Geordi, at the time a lt., j.g., was in command of the ship. The chief engineer, a full lieutenant, tries to relieve him, but Geordi refuses, saying the only two people who can relieve him are Picard or Riker. That leaves out Data, which also makes little sense.

Maybe La Forge made that up, knowing what a dork the chief engineer is.

Would be hilarious if he did! -- RR

 

[Norrin Radd]

About Troi outranking almost everybody. That was bullshit. Total bullshit. Not trying to be sexist, but she just wasn't credible as an authority figure who could command Worf, Data, Geordi, etc.

 

[nx1701g]

I think that the episode Gambit answers some of these questions.

When Picard was posing as Galen Riker was given command of the Enterprise and Data was XO.

When Riker was captured Data became Captain of the Enterprise with Worf as XO.

When Data and Worf got into it over Worf questioning his orders, Data said Geordi could serve as XO and Worf would return to Tactical.

 

[RaymondJames]

I am not even going to try to put this in order

I am just going to highlight a few points.

Clearly we know

Picard (Commanding Officer, Captain)
Riker (1st Officer, Commander)
Data (2nd Officer, "Chief"? Operations Officer)
*I don't know if they would call him chief, senior or ops manager but he was a ops officer and I assume the head of that.

Geordi: >2364 as a Lt. JG and served as a helmsmen
>2365 Promoted to Lieutenant + named Engineering Chief
>2366 Promoted to Lt. Commander

Worf: >2364 Lt JG served on the bridge as a relief helmsmen and various stations.
>late 2364-2365 serves as acting security chief
>2365 transfers to ops division and offically becomes
Security Chief & Chief Tactical Officer
>2366 promoted to Lieutenant
>2371 promoted to Lt. Commander

Troi: Served as ships counsellor the whole run of TNG
>2364 Lt. Commander
>2370 passes test and is promoted to Full Commander

Doctor Crusher:>2364 serves on the Enterprise-D as Chief Medical Officer with the rank of Commander

Yar: >2364 Serves on the Enterprise-D as Security Chief and hold the rank of Lieutenant. Killed In the Line of Duty in late 2364.

 

[LaBarre]

About Troi outranking almost everybody. That was bullshit. Total bullshit. Not trying to be sexist, but she just wasn't credible as an authority figure who could command Worf, Data, Geordi, etc.

"Not trying to be sexist" doesn't mean you aren't being so, and in this case, your statement is deeply, tragically, totally, sexist.

She "wasn't credible" to YOU as an "authority figure." That's ok. That's opinion. But you don't qualify yourself that way. No, instead, you just throw down the gauntlet that none of the guys would have or should have followed her orders - as a statement of fact.

That's the "bullshit."

 

[RaymondJames]

About Troi outranking almost everybody. That was bullshit. Total bullshit. Not trying to be sexist, but she just wasn't credible as an authority figure who could command Worf, Data, Geordi, etc.

"Not trying to be sexist" doesn't mean you aren't being so, and in this case, your statement is deeply, tragically, totally, sexist.

She "wasn't credible" to YOU as an "authority figure." That's ok. That's opinion. But you don't qualify yourself that way. No, instead, you just throw down the gauntlet that none of the guys would have or should have followed her orders - as a statement of fact.

That's the "bullshit."

She wasn't an authority figure in my mind because she was a ship's counsellor. She had no real command experaince or any knowledge of tactics in battle or about engineering. Point prooven when she was studying for her exam to become a Full Commander.

 

[Norrin Radd]

About Troi outranking almost everybody. That was bullshit. Total bullshit. Not trying to be sexist, but she just wasn't credible as an authority figure who could command Worf, Data, Geordi, etc.

"Not trying to be sexist" doesn't mean you aren't being so, and in this case, your statement is deeply, tragically, totally, sexist.

She "wasn't credible" to YOU as an "authority figure." That's ok. That's opinion. But you don't qualify yourself that way. No, instead, you just throw down the gauntlet that none of the guys would have or should have followed her orders - as a statement of fact.

That's the "bullshit."

Kira Nerys is a commander. Janeway is a commander. Troi is just a poser.

So she took a course and passed a test....wooooeee!

 

[nx1701g]

In Conundrum this was the order of the Enterprise's Senior Staff (Season Five):

Jean-Luc Picard
Keiran McDuff (Alien Intruder)
William T. Riker
Data
Beverly Crusher
Deanna Troi
Geordi LaForge
Worf
Ro Laren

 

[LeadHead]

Data was assigned as the Ships Second Officer, he was still above Crusher the whole series and she was a Full Commander the whole series as well. Troi was granted some command responsibilities when she became a full commander, but if she hadn't wanted those responsibilites, she wouldn't have gotten them.

Worf stated i Suddenly Human that Crusher was his superior officer, although it seems to me that if Picard assigned an Away team with just the two of them, Worf might be in command if it were a risky mission. Data was clearly in command over Crusher in High Ground.